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Author Topic: Interesting!!!!!  (Read 7481 times)

Offline ddwilkins

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2010, 08:07:27 AM »
... I mean, the beat can be from "BOMBS OVER BAGDAD by Outkast" but if the lyrics is "JESUS IS KING" that is glorifying GOD....


I actually like that song. Just this past weekend, I liked listening to Dear Momma by Tupac for mother's day weekend.
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Offline malthumb

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2010, 10:16:17 AM »
I'm getting ready to start something, not to offend but to demonstrate how denominations can effect the opinions of GOD's People. Here it goes.... I will go out on a limb and say that most of those who oppose this video is from a COGIC/HOLYNESS background. Maybe Pentecostal. Those who are Baptist really don't see it one way are the other. Some will be for it and some will not. Those who are non-denominational without a COGIC/HOLYNESS/PENTECOSRTAL influence will love it. My point is, it is all based on your teachings on how you respond to this video. In my opinion and based off of my understanding of the WORD OF GOD this is perfectly ok. Because he is giving the glory to GOD. Its for the uplifting of GOD. I mean, the beat can be from "BOMBS OVER BAGDAD by Outkast" but if the lyrics is "JESUS IS KING" that is glorifying GOD. Which is good. Just think about the runs you play on the Bass Guitar, do you think that only Gospel bass players have made those runs. No.... R&B, Rap, Rock Bass players play those same runs. So do we say, because he made that run in a secular song we can't do it in a Gospel song? NO... So basically you can duplicate any tune as long as your goal is to Glorify God. I think this was beautiful.

You may be on to something there.  Personally, I am Presbyterian (the Frozen Chosen) but I also play at a Pan African Orthodox Christian Church.  Two ends of the spectrum.  No wonder I'm schizophrenic.  For me it's about the lyrics.  If you write Christian lyrics to the tune of "Brick House", I'm on it.  But the one song that Bishop Love sang that talked about looking into each others' eyes......when and how does one look into God's eyes?  I understand that it is metophorical, but it does have a way of bringing God down to a human level.  Change some of the lyrics and I could be on board with some of what Bishop Love was doing, but without changing the lyrics......There's a South Park episode....
FAITH unites people
RELIGION divides FAITH

Offline DWBass

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2010, 10:25:39 AM »
Does anyone have an issue with Kirk Franklin's use of music derived from secular songs? Didn't BeBe and CeCe Winans actually redo I'll Take You There? Was that originally a 'gospel' record? I'm not sure! A lot of churches sing 'Ooh Child' by The Five Stairsteps. Any issues with that? Yah Mo Be There?

Here's my feeling on the subject. A lot of our youth are lost. Churches have a hard time attracting youths. Sometimes you need to draw them in by using music that is familiar to them. I spoke a few years ago how my church has zero youths and that they still sing 18th Century hymals with piano/organ accompanyment only!

In that video, did the minister not change the lyrics and glorify God?

You can only preach to the choir but so much but don't forget those outside the church who need ministering! Otherwise, may as well shut the doors and allow no else in!

Anyway, I didn't have a problem with it. I'm Methodist by the way.
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Offline fmason3

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2010, 10:35:57 AM »
SMH

Offline fmason3

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2010, 11:35:07 AM »
Why in the world do church folk think that the best way to attract the youth is by making the church look/sound like the world?   You don't see the club having communion to get the deacons to come out.  As long as the church is imitating the world, the church loses.

Offline ddwilkins

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2010, 11:35:48 AM »
Does anyone have an issue with Kirk Franklin's use of music derived from secular songs? Didn't BeBe and CeCe Winans actually redo I'll Take You There? Was that originally a 'gospel' record? I'm not sure! A lot of churches sing 'Ooh Child' by The Five Stairsteps. Any issues with that? Yah Mo Be There?

Here's my feeling on the subject. A lot of our youth are lost. Churches have a hard time attracting youths. Sometimes you need to draw them in by using music that is familiar to them. I spoke a few years ago how my church has zero youths and that they still sing 18th Century hymals with piano/organ accompanyment only!

In that video, did the minister not change the lyrics and glorify God?

You can only preach to the choir but so much but don't forget those outside the church who need ministering! Otherwise, may as well shut the doors and allow no else in!

Anyway, I didn't have a problem with it. I'm Methodist by the way.

+100

My former pastor said something to us youth at the time that has stuck with me for years. She stated, "The principle doesn't change, just to procedure in delivering it does."
Keep God first and he'll do the rest!!!

Offline kevmove02

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2010, 11:36:49 AM »
Here is my last thought on the subject: if you don't approve of the video, don't watch it. I don't think the original posted this video to be critical, but to demonstrate that "Jesus makes everything right" I'm so glad that Andre crouch was immune to the criticism he recieved for sounding too secular.

Offline Mysteryman

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2010, 12:24:57 PM »
 :D Back to one of my old examples. If God was literally sitting in front of you how would you sing? How would you dance? That should either give you your answer or tell you how you view God.
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2010, 12:43:52 PM »
  "Jesus makes everything right"

Contrary to popular belief Jesus doesn't make EVERYTHING right.

He covers your old sins, he doesn't uphold you in your sin.  You ask for forgiveness and he blots it out, he doesn't make the action of sin "RIGHT".   He delivers us from sin, he doesn't teach us how to sin correctly.

As far as the whole denominational thing goes, I think we need to set that all aside and look at it one way.  Is it truth? If not then move onto the truth.
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Offline blacklw234

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2010, 01:03:22 PM »
Contrary to popular belief Jesus doesn't make EVERYTHING right.

He covers your old sins, he doesn't uphold you in your sin.  You ask for forgiveness and he blots it out, he doesn't make the action of sin "RIGHT".   He delivers us from sin, he doesn't teach us how to sin correctly.

As far as the whole denominational thing goes, I think we need to set that all aside and look at it one way.  Is it truth? If not then move onto the truth.

I'm not sure I agree with that. No offense... Quite the contrary.... I think Jesus does make everything right. Without Jesus, every is wrong.
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Offline bradleymoorer

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 01:31:37 PM »
I have no words, SMH, I really don't know what to say, I think he has a point it all depends on who you are singing to but still, some people are already on the fence and they would hear that and start listening to secular music just a little bit more until eventually you are listening to secular music 6 days out the week and gospel music for a half-hour before you go to church, so I guess it depends on where you are in your walk! Wow!
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Offline kevmove02

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2010, 02:03:20 PM »
If you have beef with the phrase "Jesus makes everything right" don't take it up with me, take it up with the author:

Thesis Pieces
Looks like it finally came around like the hands of a clock
Praise to Yahweh Nissi
Shout to the Banner—Shabach
This LP is two sided—for the man on the block
And for the flock who thinks keeping God's commandment is hot
On one side we wanna represent Christ to the Culture
Hip-Hop mostly knows Him for making tight little posters
Or a sculpture, but they can't view Him like they're supposed to
'Cause the gospel's never been preached to them like its' supposed to
And the life in Christ has never even looked like an answer
Except for locked up crooks and Big Mas with cancer
So, Ambassador is back to give you his thesis
The greatest need in Hip-Hop is the input of Jesus

[Hook]
It's the thesis we need this
The story in short
Hip-Hop properly submitted to the glorious Lord

It's problematic 'cause
It can be scary to like
But... Jesus makes everything right (2x

churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2010, 02:13:58 PM »
Contrary to popular belief Jesus doesn't make EVERYTHING right.

He covers your old sins, he doesn't uphold you in your sin.  You ask for forgiveness and he blots it out, he doesn't make the action of sin "RIGHT".   He delivers us from sin, he doesn't teach us how to sin correctly.

As far as the whole denominational thing goes, I think we need to set that all aside and look at it one way.  Is it truth? If not then move onto the truth.

Who determines what is truth? I agree with your point about setting denominational stuff aside but the way I look at, these days people determine their own "truth" so therefore what one might see as "truth" someone else might not see it as "truth." I have a problem with that mode of thinking but it's so engrained in this culture it's not even right funny and an issue like we're discussing, IMO falls in this same line.

Traditionally, I've always been on the side that says you shouldn't bring the world in the church, mix the secular with the gospel, but at the same time I almost believe that a lot of gospel music came from the secular world, as far as beats. At the end of the day I tend to believe that the music is not the most important part, but the words and who is getting the glory with the words. From what I consider "gospel" contextually and conceptually speaking, most "gospel" music is inspirational music and inspirational music does not have to be confined to the church or the world.

This is another reason why I'm not as critical of gospel rap/hip-hop because at the end of the day, they use rap/hip hop beats but just talk about Jesus and a lot of slow jams have been rearranged just to talk about Jesus.

Do you all think this topic (as a whole not just this one specifically) falls in the line of "irrelevant small church issues" or are there large implications?

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2010, 02:14:55 PM »
I'm not sure I agree with that. No offense... Quite the contrary.... I think Jesus does make everything right. Without Jesus, every is wrong.

so then how can sin be right?

There's no black and white. It's either right or wrong, no straddling the fence.
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churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2010, 02:21:40 PM »
so then how can sin be right?

There's no black and white. It's either right or wrong, no straddling the fence.


You must be the only one these days that still believe in right and wrong.......lol!  ;D :D

Offline fmason3

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2010, 02:23:37 PM »
Who determines what is truth?

Jesus - John 14:6
The Holy Spirit - John 16:13
The bible - John 17:17
The ten commandments - Ps. 111:7 (Deut 9:10)

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2010, 02:26:22 PM »
Who determines what is truth?

Quote from: The Bible
John 14:6 (New International Version)

 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The word tells us that Jesus is the truth. So how do we know what is the truth? By simply reading and studying the bible we know that there is no middle ground.  Either it's about God or it isn't. Now I'd like to state again that I don't believe that all secular music is bad, however the issue here goes back to what is going on in the CHURCH and what the church is for.  If you even stand the chance of confusing the saints or compromising your stands the Apostle Paul tells us we SHOULD NOT DO IT.

The fact of the matter is that the church is for TEACHING about God, not bringing up other thoughts in peoples mind about some sins they may have committed while listening to those very songs people are trying to rewrite. we are not here to confuse the saints, so it plain and simple needs to stop.  Do you think that the people are oooo and aaahhhhh'ing over God or over their favorite "SLOW JAM" when that beat drops?  It's the latter and the stronger saints can get over the initla impression, but those weak saints, well we've just pushed them back 20 feet and that girl/guy sitting next to them in the pew is looking just a little bit TOOO good right now...smh (BTW, I've actually heard and know of people that this has happened to, so i'm not making this up).




Do you all think this topic (as a whole not just this one specifically) falls in the line of "irrelevant small church issues" or are there large implications?
No I don't think this is a small irrelevant small church issues because people are getting LOST in the church from this very thing (not just music either), so it needs to be addressed
Somebody put me in the key of E#

churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2010, 02:32:13 PM »
The word tells us that Jesus is the truth. So how do we know what is the truth? By simply reading and studying the bible we know that there is no middle ground.  Either it's about God or it isn't. Now I'd like to state again that I don't believe that all secular music is bad, however the issue here goes back to what is going on in the CHURCH and what the church is for.  If you even stand the chance of confusing the saints or compromising your stands the Apostle Paul tells us we SHOULD NOT DO IT.

The fact of the matter is that the church is for TEACHING about God, not bringing up other thoughts in peoples mind about some sins they may have committed while listening to those very songs people are trying to rewrite. we are not here to confuse the saints, so it plain and simple needs to stop.  Do you think that the people are oooo and aaahhhhh'ing over God or over their favorite "SLOW JAM" when that beat drops?  It's the latter and the stronger saints can get over the initla impression, but those weak saints, well we've just pushed them back 20 feet and that girl/guy sitting next to them in the pew is looking just a little bit TOOO good right now...smh (BTW, I've actually heard and know of people that this has happened to, so i'm not making this up).


I feel like this issue goes back to a thread we had in the gospel lounge on if gospel music is "watered." I understand the argument of dealing with this issue but the way I look at it.....idk. I just don't know if it's as big of a deal as it has been made here on LGM over the years. At the end of the day, I still think "souls" have to be the number 1 focus as long as the method doesn't compromise the values God teach in the bible.

So for those who view it as bringing the world in the chruch, what values does secular music teach that go against the word of God? I'm not totally taking a side I just want to understand both sides of the argument before determining which side I agree with.

Offline ddwilkins

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2010, 02:45:15 PM »
Churchyreal, for me I'm leaving out the doctrine that I was brought up to know. I was once told that women should not wear pants in church, nor jewelry, nor finger nail polish. Men had to wear suits, shirts and ties for every service. Everything was told to us, "what you shouldn't do." As I got older, I couldn't find in the bible where women couldn't wear pants, men had to wear suits. I'm comfortable with some slacks and a polo shirt for service. As far as what I'm reading on this thread, I'm understanding that people think its wrong because we are bringing the world into the church, well let's reverse it and take the church outside of the 4 walls and take church into the world. Point blank, instead of saying this can't be said or done in the church. If we are suppose to spread the love of Christ to non-believers, we can't do it only in the church, we have to go out or bring them in. If one non-believer in that service that night was touched by the word of God that he delivered after that introduction, then God's work was not in vain. Bishop Love, used a tool that drew that individual in close enough to want to stay to hear God's word. That's what I think is wrong with the body of Christ today. We are so inclusive, that we run non-believers away. God gives us a choice to live for him or not, he never forces himself upon us, so why do we as Christians want to force doctrines on others and non-believers??
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churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2010, 02:48:53 PM »
Churchyreal, for me I'm leaving out the doctrine that I was brought up to know. I was once told that women should not wear pants in church, nor jewelry, nor finger nail polish. Men had to wear suits, shirts and ties for every service. Everything was told to us, "what you shouldn't do." As I got older, I couldn't find in the bible where women couldn't wear pants, men had to wear suits. I'm comfortable with some slacks and a polo shirt for service. As far as what I'm reading on this thread, I'm understanding that people think its wrong because we are bringing the world into the church, well let's reverse it and take the church outside of the 4 walls and take church into the world. Point blank, instead of saying this can't be said or done in the church. If we are suppose to spread the love of Christ to non-believers, we can't do it only in the church, we have to go out or bring them in. If one non-believer in that service that night was touched by the word of God that he delivered after that introduction, then God's work was not in vain. Bishop Love, used a tool that drew that individual in close enough to want to stay to hear God's word. That's what I think is wrong with the body of Christ today. We are so inclusive, that we run non-believers away. God gives us a choice to live for him or not, he never forces himself upon us, so why do we as Christians want to force doctrines on others and non-believers??

And therein lies the problem.....point blank! Jesus told us to GO NOT wait for them to come!
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