Interesting!!!!!

[BPforChrist]

Wow ... just noticed this discussion ... let me add two cents ... before I was saved, I listened to Earth, Wind, and Fire everyday and they were singing about "In the Stone", "Sunshine", "Devotion", "Keep Your Head to the Sky" ... I sang all of these and wondered if I was singing to and about my Heavenly Father ... I was, you were ... these songs aren't a bad thing and I don't think the Lord takes most of the discussion here as seriously as some have ... he loves us, and he knows that we're singing out our love for Him when we sing His praises ...

[jeremyr]

the problem still lies in that you don't know WHAT you're putting into other listeners spirits by placing it in the church.

It might work for you, but it might not work for others.

Paul states that though some things are lawful he will not do them because it will question his stance.  I say we need to do the same thing.  If it's questionable then leave it alone.  If you have to try and justify it then you probably are too close to straddling the fence.

[blacklw234]

the problem still lies in that you don't know WHAT you're putting into other listeners spirits by placing it in the church.

It might work for you, but it might not work for others.

Paul states that though some things are lawful he will not do them because it will question his stance.  I say we need to do the same thing.  If it's questionable then leave it alone.  If you have to try and justify it then you probably are too close to straddling the fence.

However, you can't try and anticipate what every single soul will question. Especially when there are people who will question every thing. Your questionable might be different from my questionable. Some people think its wrong to take tithes. But as the pastor and the head of his church, he can't listen to that type of dessention. In a church that size, there are all kinds of opinions. That man basically turned a song that was sung for the world and sung it for Christ. What a testimony in my opinion..

[ddwilkins]

However, you can't try and anticipate what every single soul will question. Especially when there are people who will question every thing. Your questionable might be different from my questionable. Some people think its wrong to take tithes. But as the pastor and the head of his church, he can't listen to that type of dessention. In a church that size, there are all kinds of opinions. That man basically turned a song that was sung for the world and sung it for Christ. What a testimony in my opinion..

I agree. If we questioned everything that goes on in the church, nothing would get accomplished. Like my pastor has said many of times, there are people who don't like the fact that whites, blacks, hispanics, and any other race that we have in our congregation, worship together every Sunday and Tuesday. If he stop and questioned why they have those thoughts, we would be doing nothing. Some people don't like that fact that we dress "down" meaning he preaches in jeans and a dress shirt and we come dressed liked that as well on occasions. Is that wrong because we don't dress up in suits and ties every service? Once again, I believe that we need to stop saying what shouldn't bring the world into the church, but we should take the church to the world.

[jeremyr]

if it's questionable then you can anticipate. Why is this so hard to understand? And we DO need to question everything that goes on in the church.  This is why the bible calls us the church of Laodicia.  We are neither hot nor cold, we are luke warm.

[under13]

However, you can't try and anticipate what every single soul will question. Especially when there are people who will question every thing. Your questionable might be different from my questionable.

I agree. To many people having a bass guitar and drums in the church is "questionable" and worldly.

[THE WOLFMAN]

<looks for wooden spoon to stir pot>

dont bring the world into the church, eh?

so i spose all the churches that have B3's in them have an issue, since those organs were made for bars and pubs.

[churchyreal]

<looks for wooden spoon to stir pot>

dont bring the world into the church, eh?

so i spose all the churches that have B3's in them have an issue, since those organs were made for bars and pubs.

Hmmmm good argument!

[DWBass]

The minute modern instruments were brought into the church is when the world was also let in! We must stop this Church vs. The World debate! We can do so much more by getting outside the church walls and minister to those who need it! If you just want to preach to the choir within the confines of the church, that's fine but please don't judge those who don't subscribe to your thinking! Only he can judge! Not everyone is easily swayed by the devil! I say tackle him head on!

 

[ddwilkins]

The minute modern instruments were brought into the church is when the world was also let in! We must stop this Church vs. The World debate! We can do so much more by getting outside the church walls and minister to those who need it! If you just want to preach to the choir within the confines of the church, that's fine but please don't judge those who don't subscribe to your thinking! Only he can judge! Not everyone is easily swayed by the devil! I say tackle him head on!

 

We think alike!!! Just for kickers, did people bring the juke joint into the church when they played the washboard? I just had to do it. I'm a fan of Zydeco music. I appreciate almost all forms of music. One last kicker, is it wrong to play raggae music as well? I like Donnie's "I got my mind made up" and "Surely Goodness and Mercy" by Israel Houghton. Both have raggae beats? BTW, Israel opens up his concerts lately with Black Eyed Peas, "I got a feeling."  I'm warning people so that they don't miss the message that he is about to bring through song if you ever get the opportunity to experience one of his concerts in the near future.

[churchyreal]

The minute modern instruments were brought into the church is when the world was also let in! We must stop this Church vs. The World debate! We can do so much more by getting outside the church walls and minister to those who need it! If you just want to preach to the choir within the confines of the church, that's fine but please don't judge those who don't subscribe to your thinking! Only he can judge! Not everyone is easily swayed by the devil! I say tackle him head on!

 

We think alike!!! Just for kickers, did people bring the juke joint into the church when they played the washboard? I just had to do it. I'm a fan of Zydeco music. I appreciate almost all forms of music. One last kicker, is it wrong to play raggae music as well? I like Donnie's "I got my mind made up" and "Surely Goodness and Mercy" by Israel Houghton. Both have raggae beats? BTW, Israel opens up his concerts lately with Black Eyed Peas, "I got a feeling."  I'm warning people so that they don't miss the message that he is about to bring through song if you ever get the opportunity to experience one of his concerts in the near future.

Good pointers!

if it's questionable then you can anticipate. Why is this so hard to understand? And we DO need to question everything that goes on in the church.  This is why the bible calls us the church of Laodicia.  We are neither hot nor cold, we are luke warm.

I get your point but idk if I fully agree. I feel like the reason why we are ineffective in society that is becoming increasingly secularized is because we are in church arguing and debating over too many things that are either cultural, subjective or have nothing to do with reaching souls! To me, at the end of the day we should focus on winning souls, discipling one another into the character of Christ, fellowshiping with one another, worshipping God as a reminder who this is about and serving our community. Everything else really doesn't matter as long as the focus is on Christ. Really disturbs me how there are so many arguments and debates over things that really don't matter.

[ddwilkins]

Good pointers!

I get your point but idk if I fully agree. I feel like the reason why we are ineffective in society that is becoming increasingly secularized is because we are in church arguing and debating over too many things that are either cultural, subjective or have nothing to do with reaching souls! To me, at the end of the day we should focus on winning souls, discipling one another into the character of Christ, fellowshiping with one another, worshipping God as a reminder who this is about and serving our community. Everything else really doesn't matter as long as the focus is on Christ. Really disturbs me how there are so many arguments and debates over things that really don't matter.

+72

[berbie]

When you think about it real hard you have to consider that just because something doesn't matter to you(any person) does not mean that it doesn't matter at all.  Should we not even consider others?   If we don't have to, why do we do things that we know matter very much to many.   If you are creative, you just simply don't have to sing love songs in church. And that does not even take into consideration posible moral issues.   

Since we drink wine at communion, should we bring our own bottles?  Of course not.  It is bad to say, since you are doing one thing(playing the organ)then it follows that you should do something else along that line but more extreme. Its according to what you're playing, of course.

[jonesl78]

Regardless of where you stand on the matter, can you effectively communicate the intended message to the reciever without them being distracted. If so, go for it. As ministers of the gospel, we must be aware of our audience and strategically decide the best way to deliver our message.  I probably would not play a tye tribbet song for an audience made of 60-80 year olds. However, I would be tempted to re-write a "I aint mad at cha" song for a prison ministry performance.

Personaly, I dont care for secular songs in church, but I would do it willingly in a heart-beat if I could reach the lost.

[floaded27]

i think this is a "do the ends justify the means" question. and we all have absolutes where we say no and ones where we say yes. Its the subjective stuff where we dont disagree on. We dont agree on some stuff and thats ok. Maybe we are all called to be in different places, which is why we may have different methods.

Just because I put my feet up on the coffee table at my house, doesnt mean I can come to  your house and do the same. And rather than trying to debate why i think you're wrong for not letting me do that, why dont i respect it, because it is YOUR house.

I respect everyones opinion here and I do believe there is an acceptable level (the B3 and other modern instruments, even microphones and sound systems, recording equipment, etc, because those are "worldly" too, and if we wanna be technical, letting unsaved folk in your church is worldly as well). But we all just dont agree on where the line is drawn, and we all never will.

In that respect, I agree with Jeremy in that if you gotta say to yourself "am i crossing the line?" its best that you leave it alone. There may be a reason why you are asking that question. And if its right and its something God NEEDS you to do, best believe that God will open up your understanding, and that wont be a question for you any longer.

So just like if playing a song leads someone to Christ and you feel thats right because you brought in a soul, if NOT playing that song brings someone else to Christ, the person that didnt play the song is no LESS right because they brought in a soul too. And we should look at it that way, because some people are drawn to Christ because certain things are present, and some are drawn to Christ because certain things are absent. And if those certain things overlap, then we are going to be in disagreement, but we should follow the path of those we are led to reach.

[jeremyr]

Good pointers!

I get your point but idk if I fully agree. I feel like the reason why we are ineffective in society that is becoming increasingly secularized is because we are in church arguing and debating over too many things that are either cultural, subjective or have nothing to do with reaching souls! To me, at the end of the day we should focus on winning souls, discipling one another into the character of Christ, fellowshiping with one another, worshipping God as a reminder who this is about and serving our community. Everything else really doesn't matter as long as the focus is on Christ. Really disturbs me how there are so many arguments and debates over things that really don't matter.

Why would we make the job of savings souls HARDER by constantly reminding people of the sinful acts that the Gospel of Christ tells them they should abstain from?  If you don't see how that is counteractive then I don't know what to tell you. And let me tell you, if the person listening isn't focusing on Christ (again bringing up the fact that if you have to think about it then you shouldn't do it) then your point of "as long as the focus is on Christ" is NULL and VOID. The whole concept is if it's QUESTIONABLE and might cause confusion for someone in the pews then DON'T DO IT  and well the clips were ALL VERY QUESTIONABLE.

Being a leader in a church isn't about what "YOU" can handle, but thinking about your congregation. We are here to put the focus on CHRIST and not send people into their memory banks to have flash backs and have people daydreaming about how they use to be bumping and grinding in the back of trucks in the park and what not all while wanting to get back there.

Now someone earlier mentioned that pastor knows his church and I HAVE to disagree.  Did you see how large that church is?  When churches get in the range of 700+ members in ONE service these pastors don't know their entire congregations name, let alone enough about all of them to know if they will be affected negatively by this type of "cross over" music.

The church can win souls without singing QUESTIONABLE Songs and if you feel differently then you haven't been reading the bible I have.  Why confuse people on the matter? Keep it Jesus and keep it moving.

[churchyreal]

i think this is a "do the ends justify the means" question. and we all have absolutes where we say no and ones where we say yes. Its the subjective stuff where we dont disagree on. We dont agree on some stuff and thats ok. Maybe we are all called to be in different places, which is why we may have different methods.
Just because I put my feet up on the coffee table at my house, doesnt mean I can come to  your house and do the same. And rather than trying to debate why i think you're wrong for not letting me do that, why dont i respect it, because it is YOUR house.

I respect everyones opinion here and I do believe there is an acceptable level (the B3 and other modern instruments, even microphones and sound systems, recording equipment, etc, because those are "worldly" too, and if we wanna be technical, letting unsaved folk in your church is worldly as well). But we all just dont agree on where the line is drawn, and we all never will.

In that respect, I agree with Jeremy in that if you gotta say to yourself "am i crossing the line?" its best that you leave it alone. There may be a reason why you are asking that question. And if its right and its something God NEEDS you to do, best believe that God will open up your understanding, and that wont be a question for you any longer.

So just like if playing a song leads someone to Christ and you feel thats right because you brought in a soul, if NOT playing that song brings someone else to Christ, the person that didnt play the song is no LESS right because they brought in a soul too. And we should look at it that way, because some people are drawn to Christ because certain things are present, and some are drawn to Christ because certain things are absent. And if those certain things overlap, then we are going to be in disagreement, but we should follow the path of those we are led to reach.

Kind of what I'm thinking as well.

Why would we make the job of savings souls HARDER by constantly reminding people of the sinful acts that the Gospel of Christ tells them they should abstain from?  If you don't see how that is counteractive then I don't know what to tell you. And let me tell you, if the person listening isn't focusing on Christ (again bringing up the fact that if you have to think about it then you shouldn't do it) then your point of "as long as the focus is on Christ" is NULL and VOID. The whole concept is if it's QUESTIONABLE and might cause confusion for someone in the pews then DON'T DO IT  and well the clips were ALL VERY QUESTIONABLE.

Being a leader in a church isn't about what "YOU" can handle, but thinking about your congregation. We are here to put the focus on CHRIST and not send people into their memory banks to have flash backs and have people daydreaming about how they use to be bumping and grinding in the back of trucks in the park and what not all while wanting to get back there.

Now someone earlier mentioned that pastor knows his church and I HAVE to disagree.  Did you see how large that church is?  When churches get in the range of 700+ members in ONE service these pastors don't know their entire congregations name, let alone enough about all of them to know if they will be affected negatively by this type of "cross over" music.

The church can win souls without singing QUESTIONABLE Songs and if you feel differently then you haven't been reading the bible I have.  Why confuse people on the matter? Keep it Jesus and keep it moving.

I understanding what you're saying and think you have valid points but I actually think a lot of leaders lead on personal opinion and what appeals to them personally than the collective voice. This might explain why we have so many chiefs and not enough indians.

[jeremyr]

Kind of what I'm thinking as well.

I understanding what you're saying and think you have valid points but I actually think a lot of leaders lead on personal opinion  and what appeals to them personally than the collective voice. This might explain why we have so many chiefs and not enough indians.

Agreed 100%, however ( you knew that was coming...rofl) I believe in this scenario in which this thread was started I don't see how one could say it's a personal preference.  If you are confusing folks then you are not under the leadership of God. The bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 that "GOD is not the author of confusion". That's not me speaking out of my personal thoughts, that is THE word, and if we can't go by THE word then everything we do is in vein.

I believe it's time for us to stop ALLOWING stuff out of our personal opinion because "we don't see anything wrong with it" or "I don't think about my gallivanting when I hear that"  and rely wholly on the word of God.

[churchyreal]

Agreed 100%, however ( you knew that was coming...rofl) I believe in this scenario in which this thread was started I don't see how one could say it's a personal preference.  If you are confusing folks then you are not under the leadership of God. The bible says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 that "GOD is not the author of confusion". That's not me speaking out of my personal thoughts, that is THE word, and if we can't go by THE word then everything we do is in vein.

I believe it's time for us to stop ALLOWING stuff out of our personal opinion because "we don't see anything wrong with it" or "I don't think about my gallivanting when I hear that"  and rely wholly on the word of God.

We don't even do that.......lol! 

We take what we want and use it and everything else and put it to the side...ha!

[BPforChrist]

Well ... I'd just like to say once again ... I wasn't saved yet, and I listened to Earth, Wind, and Fire and I recognized the Lord in some of those songs ... we all know that being led to the Lord is a good thing ... I heard about him through songs like "Devotion" and I wasn't in a church during any of that time ... I am the "proof in the pudding" that there's a benefit to songs like these ... they can reach folks that might not be reached otherwise ... who's to say that the songs the Minister sang didn't reach someone that very day?  ... "Keep Your Head to the Sky" ?, these songs aren't a bad thing and I don't think the Lord takes most of the discussion here as seriously as some have ... he loves us, and he knows that we're singing out our love for Him, however and whenever we sing His praises ...