Tone is all in hands??

[ssabass]

dhagler, you're correct about Marcus & Gouche not worrying about there tone. It's because they have found there's already & they both have wonderful tones. Gouche has Mike Tobais, arguebly the best luthier around & Marcus had Roger Sadowsky. I guarantee you they tried, this & that & that & this & found the tone that they liked. Here is Mike Tobias in his own words.

Michael Tobias MTD on GospelChops.com

 

[ssabass]

continued: as you see, he didn't say, well I just grab some wood out my back yard, what ever kind of wood thats back there & make a bass & the rest is up to the player. No my brothas, these cats have specifics for a reason. Then, the rest is up to the player, to bring out whats already there.

[DWBass]

I keep reading that Marcus' sound comes from Sadowsky. The only Sadowsky connection to Marcus is that Roger modified his original Fender Jazz by adding a Star pre-amp (not a Sadowsky pre) and a bad@$$ bridge. There is nothing else Sadowsky about Marcus' basses. If this was the case, he'd be playing Sadowsky's and not Fenders!

[DWBass]

Directly from Marcus' website from the man himself. His bass currently has a Bartolini pre in it.

The pre-amp I have in my bass now is a Bartolini. It was installed by Roger Sadowsky. This is the second pre-amp that I've had in there. A bad direct box blew up my first one. If I remember correctly, the original pre-amp Roger had in there was by Stars Guitars (I don't know if Stars was a division of Bartolini or what).

A guy named John Suhr, who used to work for Fender, designed the pre-amp that's in the MM sig model

[kevmove02]

DWBass, thank you. I have posted quotes by Marcus Miller at least twice in this thread where he says, "You're spending too much time worrying about technology", but yet I keep reading comments that relate to nothing but technology. Why are we so obssessed with the gear? More importantly, why are we so obsessed with other peoples' gear? If someone said to you, "Wow that was a great bassline. What was your inspiration?" would you say, "Well, isn't it obvious?

This is how things play out as a result of majoring in the minors:
1. You decide to start playing bass and get a starter pack for $299. I take it to church and immediately everyone tells you that you made a mistake.Others keep walking up and saying things like "look at the starter bass! Isn't it cute?"
2. The church folk offer to help and give you a laundry list of parts to buy. You trust them so you do it, to the tune of $400. You take the parts to church and your "helper" offers to install the parts for you and renders the instrument useless because it now has a buzzing sound that won't go away.
3. You spend some time hanging around bass players and they suggest that you get brand x bass because its the best for slap. One of them offers to sell you their bass for a steal, because they already put new pickups, a new preamp and new bridge on it for only $699. You jump on it, not because you understood why all those parts mattered, but because it doesn't buzz!
4. You play it for awhile, but you decide that it doesn't sound quite right so you take it to trade in toward another bass. After regaining consciousness because you passed out from the low ball price they offered on the trade in, you sell it yourself to some poor unsuspecting newbie for a great price, because you just want to move on. The day after you sell it, someone raves about how great that bass sounds, and you wish you never sold it. You hear this same comment and (have the same regret) everyday for the next two months.
5. You go out of town and discover a bass guitar megastore. You spend several hours playing every bass they have and find one that plays perfectly. You are surprised at how affordable it is. You then realize that if you had done this first, you would have saved your self a lot of aggravation and $1500. You then realize that you could have bought your dream bass and your dream amp if you had not listened to so many "helpful" people. You decide to let the past be the past and live happily ever after. When people ask you about your experiences, you say "there's nothing to tell" and walk away.

[floaded27]

kev, i totally feel you. There are plenty of people that are trying to be "helpful" but dont understand that what works for them may not necessarily work for you. And they push their ideas/experiences/understanding on you as if its an absolute. And some tips are pretty much absolute like "if you dont know what ur doing, dont mess with your truss rod", etc. stuff like that. but then other things, people see you as starting out (or just less experienced than they are) and they feel the need to press everything they know and do on you. I've had people play my bass and tell me "you need to change your strings. how long u had these on here?" or "you gotta tune flat"

I thank God for teachers who guided me and gave me direction as a newbie, but also gave me space to find my way. When I was so clueless starting out, my teacher gave me suggestions on what I needed, but he said so in a way to let me know that it was his suggestion and that I should check it out for myself. Once he saw me become competent, i think he felt that if i didnt ask, i probably know. But if he did notice something, he never said "you should do this" or "you need to do that" but rather "have you ever tried...." or "do you know that....". It shows that as a mentor and teacher he was there offering guidance, but at the same time respecting that im competent, as well as I may have my OWN way of doing things that may be different.

[kevmove02]

Thanks Floaded27. I remember coming home from practice and a guy in my building says, "what's in the bag". I tell him its a bass and he gets this big old grin, and says, "I play too! Come and see me and I will help you out!" I wait a couple of days (did'nt want to seem too eager) and knock on his door. After we get settled in, he says, "show me what you got". I play a riff that I learned on this website (thanks Uriah, where ever you are) and he gets a real funny look on his face. He then says, "I think I know what you were going for. You should play it like this." He starts slapping and popping like nobodies business. Now I should inform you that I was already in awe, because he had a Ken Smith 5 string running through some monster amp. What he played sounded nice, but it wasn't remotely close to the exercise. For the next hour he only wanted to talk about naming the notes and slapping and popping. I went along patiently, until he started grabbing my fingers and placing them on the fretboard. I waited until he decided the lesson was over, then I left. I see hm from time to time, but we don't hang out anymore. Fast forward a couple of months. I finally saved up enough to get a Fender Jazz. I go to the store and start the process of trying out different basses. I sales guy comes over and starts conversating with me about instruments, but never once asked me what I was looking to buy. He asked me what I played before, then started showing me the differences between the instruments. What was important was he kept placing the basses in my hands and asked me to play. When he noticed that I wasn't sure what to do, he would pick up another bass and demonstrate until I played it decently. He never rushed me and let me know that he had to go do something else, but would be back. After I bought y bass, he would often check in with me. When I told him I was thinking of changing a part, he made sure I knew why and how and even steered me away from some bad decisions. He shared a lot of stories with me, gave me a bunch of free lessons, and the most important lesson to date: as long as you make music you like, you will always be happy. He thought good tone was a state of mind, not a some total of assembled parts.

[ssabass]

Back in the day Roger Sadowsky was one of the top luthier in New York, all the big cats went to him. Never said that he installed a Sadowsky prer-amp. Sadowsky pre-amps were not even thought of. Sadowsky actually put  a Bartolini TCT preamp in Marcus bass. Which is still the same pre-amp in there today.  Switching his pre-amp was definetly a big part of the  Marcus tone we all love. Listen to some old Marcus, his tone is no where near what it is today. I just listened to Bad Boy by Luther(our band plays it) & though Marcus's bass sounds descent, but no where near the sound he's had since, the early to mid 90's. You can hear a big difference in Marcus's tone.

[6stringapprentice]

After re-reading this I think the discrepancy is that "good tone" is being equated with tone in general. I don't dispute that you can get a "good tone" from any myriad of basses from SX cheap to Ritter Royal Flora Aurum expensive, but you're hands alone can only contribute so much to the total tonal structure that you hear. No amount of hand manipulation will give a fretless bass strung with flats that sharp, crisp attack of a fretted with roundwounds. Neither is there is there any hand manipulation that would give a MTD the signature upper midrange burp of a Ken Smith. This is where that laundry list of items I listed come into play. No doubt a talented bassist playing the bassist listed above could get a great tone from them, But they would be different tones.

As far as modding, its not one of those things that should be gone into blindly. Unfortunately that isn't always the case and many people end up spending a boat load of cash only to end up with a bass they aren't satisfied with.

[kevmove02]

I appeal to the 6stringapprentices' tagline

"Respect the bassist"

Otherwise, Michael Jordan can't take credit for his illustrious career, because "its gotta be the shoes!"

[ssabass]

Correction:I should have said Sadowsky was one of the top bass techs, back in the day. Check out Marcus Miller's website. He has a q & a section & he said he had a Bartolini pre-amp installed by Roger Sadowsky. Also it depends on who dos the work for you.

[sbyrd1978]

as far as tone being in the hands... I believe that applies to different people playing the exact same instrument with the exact same settings and amp etc. Ex. When I was younger, I would sometimes get tired of some of my basses and start complaining about the tone until one of my friends would pick it up and start playing it. (Same settings) All of a sudden I thought it sounded better. LOL! Everyone's fingers produce different sounds on the same instrument. Just as our hands look different and are shaped different and our finger prints are different, our naturally produced finger tone is different-even when playing the same instrument.

[dhagler]

the most important lesson: as long as you make music you like, you will always be happy.

+10000.