To provide a contrast, let me ask this question: do you think Brooklyn Tabernacle has any problems with getting people together for practice? If you are unfamiliar with them, please take a moment, go on Youtube, type in their name and watch a video or two. So what is it that Carol Cymbala is doing so special the rest of us find hard to create within our music ministries? It's all about stated purpose and ground rules. We are focusing on the music ministry because this is a music oriented site, but the issues of discipline and order are present in every entity; where order and purpose are established, good results are produced; the lack thereof produces many of the outcomes being discussed in this thread. As an individual in the midst of a less than ideal situation, ask yourself, "is what I am experiencing indicative of what occurs throughout our ministry or is it isolated? If it is isolated, why is the same level of order and discipline not being applied to the music ministry as to other ministries?" Ultimately, if those who have the ability to impose order and discipline neglect to do so, you are in a very hard place, because there is nothing worse than apathy. Unless you find a way to spark people into caring, you will find yourself taking on that same spirit. Stay armored up.