budget sounds and sound modules revisited outfiting a rig on a budget

[diverse379]

warning for those who have ADD this is a long post

I have searched this site for some information and thought I would raise a few questions about sound modules

In this post I will offer from my limited knowledge of the subject how you can have a killer rig for less than a 1000.00
some racks  and boards to keep in mind if you are on a budget

How to get the most out of your older rack or keyboard
software designers kidnepro pro-rec k sounds check out what they program for and then go and find the unit you want
sample libraries expansion cards or boards
these items can be found at used music stores and pawn shops and on ebay

under 100.00

nano piano  small cheap and decent if you need get a decent piano sound
not the best but will help round out a layer nicely  price about 80,00

v880 very cheap 60-120.00
expandable with srjv80 cards
put in a 60's and 70's and this is all you need


under 200.00
kurzqeil micro piano  price 200,00 decent pianos again will not sound like ivory or the latest cp5 but will do well at the next church service
and will provide great foundation for layers
trinity racks or triton racks can be found in pawn shops for low money

200-400
at a higer price point
you can look into
kv 2080 3080 and 5050
these are roland racks that offer tons of sounds expandable and lush sounding.

roland mks 20 a very old board that is still used today


triton racks or anything old korg
korgs have a very fat analog sound and there fore are great for atmosphere think
worship flow prayer music
strings horns swirly atmosphere is what korg does best
if you find an old
m1 trinity or triton rack
snatch one up
they have weak pianos but k sounds makes some very good pianos for the triton that would compliment any church service

motif first generation racks can be found easily in this price point

yamaha
the motif has been a beast for a long time
the original motif has some very nice pianos and should be considered
the price of an original motif is low a board can cost as little as 500,00
a rack even less
and the filters are warmer than even the Es and xs
apparently the appegiatiors in the later boards took away ram from the sound patches

a yamaha motif will make the perfect board for your gigs

what about your actual playing board

if you dont mind being without weighted action I recommend a 76 as your gigging instrument it is lighter takes up less space in your car
and is cheaper than a 88  new or used

first generation fantom was my gigging instrument expanded with srx boards I had a killer synth keyboard that allowed me to do runs and zone splits

other choices are yamaha motif 76

if you need weighted keys
try studio logic if you get a small module like the micro piano or an mks20 you will have a great rig that will do any gig
for less than 1000.00


less than a thousand
studio logic 88 no sound but weighted keys
yamaha p85 or p95  decent pianos as good as most workstations

1000.00
yamaha p155
i dont know about the other boards in this price range but I hear the casio is pretty good
and the action isnt bad either

killer rig number one price about 800.00

studio logic 88 weighted controller
two roland jv880 modules
one nano piano or kurzweil micro piano
total cost
between 700-850.00 what you get
two jv 880 modules to handle organs and additional keys to layer with and mix and match

killer rig two
price about 1,000

yamaha p155 or casio or roland equivalant
jv2080   motif rack jv880

is three possible keyboards controlled by one board

killer rig three price point about 1,100


studio logic or yamaha p85 or p95
maudio 48 key controller
jv880
triton rack  or jv2080 or 5050
motif rack
what you get
you get two keyboards so now you can play separate bass lines or horn lines independently of your other board

you get the jv880 which gives you lots of atmospheric sounds and horns brass even decent eps
you get a triton or jv2080 for keyboard foundational sounds
you get a yamaha rack for your foundation keyboard piano sounds

finally a note about layering and what works

bass and brass the right bass sound will work all the way accross the entire keyboard giving you some attack to your right hand
bass keys better as splits but also see above notation
bass ep work well as splits also see above
bass mallets
bass vibes
bass and bells

layers
keys and brass  shouts contemporary uptempe
ep and acoustic bolder backing up a choir
piano and strings worship ballads
piano strings and brass full westcoast mega church sound
piano and guitar souful for those who love runs
piano and guitar and strings great atmosphere for rounding out the melody

bells and keys  quiet as it is kept bells make great foundations for layered keys
bells and strings  think christmas time great  for those of you who are good with playing melody



layering sounds is one of the best ways to stretch your musical dollars

if you drive to your gig you have nearly unlimited potential

let me give you a set up I used to use back in 2001 that still kills anything I have now and I have some serious boards now

I had a yamaha sy77 for the pianos I used a sample library from pro rec (always check out these programmers like kidnepro prorec
k sounds for aftermarket patches )
often these guys will bundle their older stuff and sell it really cheap

roland mbd1 (roland bass and drums)

kurzweil micro piano

alesis nanoverb used the chorus or rotary effect (leslie) to give me that wurly sound

for slow songs I may do something like this


I would use the bass and drum module and choose a patch
that worked well across the entire keyboard since I didnt have the option of limiting the key range
I would transpose it up  and octave

so that I could use more of the bottom range of the keyboard
there was one patch that sounded like a horn patch up top and a slow attack jaco type bass sound on the bottom

the kurzweil micro piano would supply me with my piano patch

and the sy77 gave me  either organ or piano or strings

when you layer or stack your keyboards you are taking full advantage of what each keyboard has to offer
it is a well known fact that when you create layers within one board each patch loses a little bit of sound quality

there are certain boards that are very cheap at the moment and you can find awesome deals

the  jv880 can be had for very cheap  i paid 40.00 for one at a pawn shopand it is expandable via sr jv80 expansion boards which can still be found on ebay
the roland 5050 and 5080 2080 can be had for between 200-600 dollars

the kurzwiel micro piano and even the alesis nano piano  take up a small amount of space and can add texture to your layers

bell patches make great foundations for Ep layers
the old m1 by korg has a great bell patch that was the foundation of nate mcnairs patches you can hear throughout many early hezekiah walker albums

the original motif has a warmer sound I am told than even the Es and you can find these for not to much money

dont feel that you dont have the ability to generate good sounds because you dont have a lot of money

you can find some older racks and keyboards to start to build a real arsenal

dont forget to check out patch designers
for your boards and then go and find them on ebay
or your local pawn shops


thats it
hope I have helped someone out there

[lordluvr]

I read this on my phone, so I skipped a lot of stuff. That which I did read is great info. I'm going to come back and read it when I get home.

[kingrhollo]

Are the racks for sound modules or for keyboards?  Because I'm looking for a keyboard rack that fits over an organ because we have limited space and I want to bring my S90 to mix things up.

[diverse379]

when I use the word rack or sound module I am really referring to the same thing
rack is short for rack mountable
which is a certain size device such as a sound module or effect , even a preamp
in this post I was referring only to rack mountable sound modules

if you want something that will allow you to put a keyboard on your organ (cringing)
they do make stands that are very short about 3 inches off the floor the purpose is to put them on a table top or organ
they have rubber feet so as not to scratch the organ.

[diverse379]

my dream gigging rig on a budget

triton extreme with k sounds piano volume one and two
with exb-05 analog phatness  or exb o1 piano expansion

small maudio controller controlling xv5050

total price 2,150

[Mysteryman]

Currently I like being able to setup the keyboard and just play and hook up a number of modules and fiddle with settings. Something easy to pack up and set up. 61 note keyboard are a little less hassle as far as weight is concerned. I recently took my old Roland XP 10 out. Easy to set up and get out although the polyphony sucks. I may change my mind later on.

[diverse379]

wow xp 10

what modules do you use?

[THE WOLFMAN]

Dang div, ain't seen you post in a bit and you post a dooooozy.

Jv 880 is a must. Something about that brass. Not the same in tha later xv and fantom models.

If you're covering bass, find a Roland bass module(mbd-1) it has Marcus miller, Abe laboriel and  John pattituci samples.

[ddw4e]

Dang div, ain't seen you post in a bit and you post a dooooozy.

Jv 880 is a must. Something about that brass. Not the same in tha later xv and fantom models.

If you're covering bass, find a Roland bass module(mbd-1) it has Marcus miller, Abe laboriel and  John pattituci samples.

What brass you use on the 880? I have that myself.

I have the JV880, Kurzweil MicroPiano, JV1010, Korg O5/1W, MKS20 (Don't use as much since I use the software on NI Kontakt), I don't use the hardware much at church anymore but use it more in the home studio (using either Logic or PT for my engineer) with my MO8 as the controller.  For the live, I use Spectrasonics Trilian for bass (sometimes if I am using Logic MainStage), Scarbee EP/Session Strings/Alicia Keys/MKS20  on Kontakt

Great post Div! Hope to see you in June!

[diverse379]

Thanks for the love wolfman and DDW4e

I have been laying back shedding pushing out more things
I tend to post whatever I am dealing with at the moment
and currently I am trying to get my studio back in shape

I was robbed and they got my rd700sx so I am really on a hunt for a rebuild
and I came accross that jv880 for 40.00 and that just started a whole different mission (insert theme song from mission impossible)

I had a few conversations with Sebastian and got to thinking that it is possible to get a really awesome set up without breaking the bank.

you are right about that mbd1
i used to own one and it was sick.
for covering bass alone this rack is worth every penny
also note that this unit is also available as a sr jv80 card
and can be found on ebay for less than a hundred. dollars
if you have a any jv series boards or even a fantom you can use this expansion board

the mbd1 is a littlle scarce these days but I loved it for its portability it was a regular length  rack but it was short from front to back so could easily fit in a back pack. or duffle bag

in writing this thread
I think my thought process was really more for the gigging rig because my church only has a clavinova 
and I wanted to really bring some contemporary flavor into the church I ride a motorcycle so bringing my motif to church is out

I needed a module to start things right I have a tritonrack but it is too big
but the jv880 fits into a guitar case and I can strap that on my back
and off I go
my only issue with the jv880 is the polyphony
you can only realiistically get two instruments in a performance without compromise.

most churches have some sort of keyboard and bringing a small portable module like the jv880 micro piano
roland 1010 is convenient and adds versatility to a rig
couple that with a small controller you can bring in separate horns and bass runs to a performance with little effort

many churches have all this set up already but many do not and this was who this thread was aimed at.
but by all means a rig is a rig and studio applications should be considered as well I will actually address the studio rig in a separate thread right now

there was a patch that Katrina Lewis hipped me to
bass keys brass
the brass would lay out until you hit the keys rather hard
so you could essentially play a verse with just bass and keys then strike a little harder during the chorus and bring the brass in.

I programmed this sound myself on the fantom and a s90 but I havent been able to do it with the jv880 totally different beast I suppose.

plus I havent programmed in a while I need a refresher course

[THE WOLFMAN]

@div-
 hol up, you know E. Kat?

wooow small planet. give her a hug for me nex time you see her. Aint seen her since she got- well, married...

yeh, you can prolly find a srjv bass n drums card, since most people are doing the virtual thing. the plus on that is you gat get into editing easier on the 80's interface.

But i remember hearing that you dont get all the srjv cards sound on an 880/jv 80. somethin bout the architecture.

@ddw -
i'll look at my rack and see. I'm a tweaker, so i might have did something custom in performance mode.

While i was waiting for my office space at the church i had my mac as par of my rig, loaded Native instruments Kontakt, Kore, and Propelerheads' Reason. I had one of the Vienna Strings early libraries(OPUS) in Kontakt.

THAT was sweet.

Im a big DAW user and i can mos def see using virtual joints when being portable. Plus it may be easier on the pockets.

But i've found that for a more permanent rig, I prefer the hardware as primaries. when i need to grab and change something, i just grab it, i dont feel like mousing around.

Here's my rig (The Enterprise, as i call it.)

3 tier stand center
1st tier Yamaha p250-primary 88 key
(layers are controlled by separate midi channels)

2nd tier Fantomx 7
3rd tier Korg CX-3*

to the left-Triton 61-used for string layer and polysynth layer*
to the right racked
-JV880-brass*
XV-5080-EP layer(WestCoast, specifically)*
Alesis S4 plus-(polysynth layer)*
Roland Mbd-1(bass. when needed)*
Roland MV8000*
Behringer line mixer*
Behringer half rack EQ*
M-audio midisport8x8 patchbay*

the stuff with a star is my personal stuff, the spoils from working at Sam Ash.

will prolly add my laptop since i moved my mac, but im doing fine without it.


now if my soundguy would know what he's doing.....ugh...but i digress......

[diverse379]

yeah the enterprise is right
you have a crazy setup.

and you are correct any of the expansion boards when run through a 880 will lose something in fact each of the jv series will sound slightly different because of the filters.

do miss that mbd1 you are making me think about getting one again
and using a small two octave controller.
to lay down the groove

Yes Katrina helped me out a lot in the past.
I moved from nyc and I havent seen her since then.  but she will always be part of my life even if only in memories

she showed me how to use the internet to find music back in the days when lime wire had more songs than youtube in fact I dont even think youtube was invented yet.

she taught me how to go to guitar center on saturdays and just network with musicians
I dont do this often but when I do there is always something good coming out of it.


working at Sam ash
I can imagine you must discover some amazing things.

I may want to get a job at sam ash or guitar center just for the perks of gear.

as far as adding Daw to my set up or using it as a gigging set up
I have to admit that bringing a lap top and my mbox to a gig and plugging in doesent seem that difficult

and there are some pretty strong programs I would love to use live
like omnisphere
and pianoteq

how would you run two keyboards through a protools mbox and get them to trigger separate instruments independently?
seems like you would need a patch bay.

but definitely If I only had one board I could really see using it this way

[Mysteryman]

wow xp 10

what modules do you use?

I don't have any. I stopped reading up on that stuff years ago. Y'all are getting over my head now. I do have a recording of a guy on a motif using like four sounds. He sounded like a one man band.

[diverse379]

Currently I like being able to setup the keyboard and just play and hook up a number of modules and fiddle with settings. Something easy to pack up and set up. 61 note keyboard are a little less hassle as far as weight is concerned. I recently took my old Roland XP 10 out. Easy to set up and get out although the polyphony sucks. I may change my mind later on.

ok so
 I will ask you again what modules do you use?
lol
it must have gotten lost in the translation

[Mysteryman]

Do you mean patches? I haven't played with them too much recently. I hardly ever practice keys now. I would have to look at the sound bank. I mostly use the piano, strings, and bass sounds. It's only got like 28 polyphony. So notes drop pretty quickly with layers.

[diverse379]

lol I was only using the language you your self used

you said you hook up a number of modules

so I asked you what modules do you use?

i wasnt asking you anything about the xp10
when I said wow I was saying wow I havent heard about that board in a minute.

[Mysteryman]

lol I was only using the language you your self used

you said you hook up a number of modules

so I asked you what modules do you use?

i wasnt asking you anything about the xp10
when I said wow I was saying wow I havent heard about that board in a minute.

That's what happens sometimes whenyou type on a phone. I meant not have to fiddle with modules.

[diverse379]

Ok my brother I totally understand now I was starting to wonder had happened to you in my absence glad to know you are still ok.

have you done any programming on that xp10 ?
I know you said layers were limited
I have that same problem with my jv880 the limitations really show up when you try to put three sounds together.

but I may get an editor to help me out with this.

[Mysteryman]

Ok my brother I totally understand now I was starting to wonder had happened to you in my absence glad to know you are still ok.

have you done any programming on that xp10 ?
I know you said layers were limited
I have that same problem with my jv880 the limitations really show up when you try to put three sounds together.

but I may get an editor to help me out with this.

Nah I haven't done any programming. It actually goes out of pitch when you move the whammy bar so I tell people not to move it. You can be playing I'm C then next thing you know you're in D.

[diverse379]

the spring is weak
easy fix take it to a shop they will fix it for you in no time