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Author Topic: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?  (Read 13315 times)

Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2008, 05:23:27 PM »
Ive heard many ppl use this line for an excuse so......

*to everyone*
Why would God want to use a piece of secular music to help draw people to Him?

Let's remember a few things:

- God is the creator of all things. The enemy cannot create anything he can only suggest too us a perversion in which we inact with our God-given power to create thereby our intent inacts the perversion via the suggestion of the enemy.
- God created music, Lucifer was only a vessel. Lucifers fall did not overtake what God created.
- Satan (Lucifer once fallen) set out to detur/deceive man in the power of God man was created in/with/authorized to use in the earth. The power to conceive/create/birth/father/shepherd/steward through our thoughts and words.
- The renewing of our minds and consistant search for truth, knowledge and wisdom through application under wise council and due diligence in all our endeavours (music in this conversation) would cause use to create freely rather than "mimic" as the devil does.

If we submited to being stewards rather than talented folk, students and teachers, masters and apprentice/disciples, craftmens we would not be having this discussion. We simply don't demonstrate the power because we don't exercise/practice/walk in the power given us. Mostly because we don't listen to instruction (wise council), we don't actually practice (which is our preporation time to get the download from the Holy Spirit whose job is to teach us all things and bring all things to remembrence). We don't write the vision and make it plane so that others can run with it (write/read music let alone Gospel music... how can you play in truth when you cannot speak/write the language thereof - and you confess that you don't want to, it doesn't take all that and/or you are scare to actually learn.).

Secular music has more practicing masters walking boldly and powerfully in the gifts/power that God entrusted them with being good and just stewards and giving without measure than the sacred/Gospel word does. This is a sad truth. WE THE CHURCH MUSICIANS choose to pray that the Ho;y Spirit would come upon us (when he should be dwelling in us) rather than be responsible stewards off what we are inevitably responsible for (all our deeds will be answered for on judgement day including musical slothfulness - review the parable of the talents). When the enemy catches us walking in less than full purpose/power he rips us a new one check out the Seven Sons of Skiva faking being empowered to cast out demons as Paul had demonstrated.

If our playing doesn't affect/effect our atmosphere toward joy and peace and power to cast out demons then we need to check ourselves. If when we play a new song/phrase is not birthed or at least seeded then we need to check ourselves. We should be in a constant cycle of growth and harvest. We are empowered to do so.

Some music meant for the church was turned away because of "church folk" being stoney ground causing chosen folk to turn-away running like Jonah. Then when they come out of the "whale of the world" in obedience we still condemn them not allowing them the platform to speak/do what God called them to do.
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Offline b_jizzle20

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2008, 05:23:29 PM »
*Puts popcorn down...*



*Grabs popcorn & sits down again...*


*Comes in...grabs a handful of popcorn from fretai03's bag and proceeds to find a seat*

 ;D ;D

Offline L.V.Drumma

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2008, 05:41:12 PM »
Let's remember a few things:

- God is the creator of all things. The enemy cannot create anything he can only suggest too us a perversion in which we inact with our God-given power to create thereby our intent inacts the perversion via the suggestion of the enemy.
- God created music, Lucifer was only a vessel. Lucifers fall did not overtake what God created.
- Satan (Lucifer once fallen) set out to detur/deceive man in the power of God man was created in/with/authorized to use in the earth. The power to conceive/create/birth/father/shepherd/steward through our thoughts and words.
- The renewing of our minds and consistant search for truth, knowledge and wisdom through application under wise council and due diligence in all our endeavours (music in this conversation) would cause use to create freely rather than "mimic" as the devil does.

If we submited to being stewards rather than talented folk, students and teachers, masters and apprentice/disciples, craftmens we would not be having this discussion. We simply don't demonstrate the power because we don't exercise/practice/walk in the power given us. Mostly because we don't listen to instruction (wise council), we don't actually practice (which is our preporation time to get the download from the Holy Spirit whose job is to teach us all things and bring all things to remembrence). We don't write the vision and make it plane so that others can run with it (write/read music let alone Gospel music... how can you play in truth when you cannot speak/write the language thereof - and you confess that you don't want to, it doesn't take all that and/or you are scare to actually learn.).

Secular music has more practicing masters walking boldly and powerfully in the gifts/power that God entrusted them with being good and just stewards and giving without measure than the sacred/Gospel word does. This is a sad truth. WE THE CHURCH MUSICIANS choose to pray that the Ho;y Spirit would come upon us (when he should be dwelling in us) rather than be responsible stewards off what we are inevitably responsible for (all our deeds will be answered for on judgement day including musical slothfulness - review the parable of the talents). When the enemy catches us walking in less than full purpose/power he rips us a new one check out the Seven Sons of Skiva faking being empowered to cast out demons as Paul had demonstrated.

If our playing doesn't affect/effect our atmosphere toward joy and peace and power to cast out demons then we need to check ourselves. If when we play a new song/phrase is not birthed or at least seeded then we need to check ourselves. We should be in a constant cycle of growth and harvest. We are empowered to do so.

Some music meant for the church was turned away because of "church folk" being stoney ground causing chosen folk to turn-away running like Jonah. Then when they come out of the "whale of the world" in obedience we still condemn them not allowing them the platform to speak/do what God called them to do.

Oh ok gotcha, im sorry.  I just asked that question because for a moment it made me think that some of you believe that God cant do it all or somethin' of the sort.......if you get me.

Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2008, 10:38:38 PM »
Oh ok gotcha, im sorry.  I just asked that question because for a moment it made me think that some of you believe that God cant do it all or somethin' of the sort.......if you get me.

L.V.Drumma, I wasn't attacking you in my response to your post. Please don't take any offense. Your comment was very valid and understood by me. I just wanted to respond to what you and those before said in a focused way. Often we can tend to get "churchy" without validity. Not understanding the power of creativity given to man is possibly a musician's/artist's biggest plight. Creativity is the core subject of this thread in my opinion... the creativity of the church musician overcoming that of the secular music world musician.

Thing the honest truth is, man is so displaced from knowing/understanding his true life's purpose placed in each individual by God that we are stumbling in our gifts instead of walking in them. We are each equiped for an individual mission. We act like it's mission impossible when it is simply mission not willing. I have had face that reality in my life.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline diligent-hands

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2008, 12:29:40 PM »
MAN I MISSED SABIANKNIGHT.....!!!!!!!!





GodsDruMmEr.... ;D

Offline baldeagle

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2008, 03:53:43 PM »
I applaud you, Lil John, in your attempt to bring us back into the mindset of holiness=sacred=sanctified=set apart. But people who aren't creative enough to come up with their own stuff, plus zero desire to live completely the way God has called to live (darkness and light can not co-exist), equals taking anybody else's music, using it in church, and thinking that God has lowered His standard just because they wanted to use something they got from some secular artist,

Sidenote: People who act like they don't know "secular" means are always asking, "How far can I go?" You don't have to like it, but God writes it down in His book everytime you operate in that mindset.

When a Gospel rapper uses beats from a secular song, the kids ALWAYS perk up because they recognize the song from the SECULAR artist. They're not thinking about glorifying God, they're thinking about what those real words say. Some of y'all act like you're naive. It ain't cute anymore. Y'all big ole rusty jokas are too old to be acting like this mess is alright.

But I agree with E.R. You're already stopping up your ears. I type against the Deaf and Dumb spirit RIGHT NOW!!! Some of your hearts are so hardened (in the name of so-called improvement and progressiveness) that God ain't even looking your way anymore. And somebody has the nerve to talk about God using that filth to go to the next level!! Have you ever thought that maybe the level you're trying to get to is not higher, but lower? You're trying to move to a new dimension, but God ain't in it. It's not about what you think. . . it's about what God's word says. And He tells us SEVERAL times to be Holy, set apart, sanctified for His use.

This is pathetic. Can't hear this man trying to call us back to Holiness for all the complaining of the 1/2 Christians!! It's sickening. I wonder if God ever wants to vomit when He hears some of y'all talk!!
It's God's way. . . or Hell to pay

Offline shall176

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2008, 04:42:35 PM »
Wow!  THis thread got a decent amount of responses the last couple of days for being three years old..... ;D
Check it out...
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Offline L.V.Drumma

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2008, 05:01:04 PM »
I applaud you, Lil John, in your attempt to bring us back into the mindset of holiness=sacred=sanctified=set apart. But people who aren't creative enough to come up with their own stuff, plus zero desire to live completely the way God has called to live (darkness and light can not co-exist), equals taking anybody else's music, using it in church, and thinking that God has lowered His standard just because they wanted to use something they got from some secular artist,

Sidenote: People who act like they don't know "secular" means are always asking, "How far can I go?" You don't have to like it, but God writes it down in His book everytime you operate in that mindset.

When a Gospel rapper uses beats from a secular song, the kids ALWAYS perk up because they recognize the song from the SECULAR artist. They're not thinking about glorifying God, they're thinking about what those real words say. Some of y'all act like you're naive. It ain't cute anymore. Y'all big ole rusty jokas are too old to be acting like this mess is alright.

But I agree with E.R. You're already stopping up your ears. I type against the Deaf and Dumb spirit RIGHT NOW!!! Some of your hearts are so hardened (in the name of so-called improvement and progressiveness) that God ain't even looking your way anymore. And somebody has the nerve to talk about God using that filth to go to the next level!! Have you ever thought that maybe the level you're trying to get to is not higher, but lower? You're trying to move to a new dimension, but God ain't in it. It's not about what you think. . . it's about what God's word says. And He tells us SEVERAL times to be Holy, set apart, sanctified for His use.

This is pathetic. Can't hear this man trying to call us back to Holiness for all the complaining of the 1/2 Christians!! It's sickening. I wonder if God ever wants to vomit when He hears some of y'all talk!!

Ouch......

Offline Hotsticks1

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2008, 08:01:25 PM »
Christian musicians should not recycle themes from the WORLD whether they came from the church or not. The reason is because its already been tainted. Example: Making your clean clothes dirty, and putting them back with the clean clothes. If the clothes had minds of their own, would the clean begin to question themselves because the unclean now dwells with them? The bible says let there be a difference BETWEEN clean and unclean. And I am fully aware that I am speaking against something that has been excepted by some mainstream gospel artist and musicians, but HOLINESS is still right. We have a connection from on high which no other style of music carries. That's why gospel artist and musicians can sing and play many different stlyes. But, have you ever noticed that no matter how hard some secular artist try, they never make it in gospel music like they did in the world. Why? When you answer this question, you will then answer why licks and loops shouldn't be taken from the world and put in gospel music.

Dude I completely disagree...I think you have it backwards.

Most of the great african american secular artists and musicians of today started off in the church, not the world first, and they brought what they got from the church to the world. Beyonce, Gerald Herward, Chris Dave, Whitney Houston, Calvin Rodgers, Usher...etc...All of them started out singing his eyes are on the sparrow, and playing church devotional songs just like we hear every Sunday. Church is the roots, and thats were it's all coming from, so when you hear something at the BET awards, I can almost guarantee that dude or chick started off playing in church somewhere...In other words those arent "The worlds licks" They're actually the churchs licks being recycled.

Plus we have to remember, we cant keep track off everything we pick up when we play and practice and where it came from, we just have to remember to play to the glory of God, and play for no other reason.
"If thine enemy wrong thee...Buy each of his children a drum"

Offline b_jizzle20

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2008, 08:39:35 PM »
I think it all boils down to your motive

Offline L.V.Drumma

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2008, 09:18:46 PM »
Dude I completely disagree...I think you have it backwards.

Most of the great african american secular artists and musicians of today started off in the church, not the world first, and they brought what they got from the church to the world. Beyonce, Gerald Herward, Chris Dave, Whitney Houston, Calvin Rodgers, Usher...etc...All of them started out singing his eyes are on the sparrow, and playing church devotional songs just like we hear every Sunday. Church is the roots, and thats were it's all coming from, so when you hear something at the BET awards, I can almost guarantee that dude or chick started off playing in church somewhere...In other words those arent "The worlds licks" They're actually the churchs licks being recycled.
Plus we have to remember, we cant keep track off everything we pick up when we play and practice and where it came from, we just have to remember to play to the glory of God, and play for no other reason.

Im seriously confused now, I agree with Baldeagle, Duvals, and Sk but i also agree with the bold part.  So Hotsticks are you also saying that its ok to listen to secular music and copy?

Offline chevonee

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2008, 01:24:29 AM »
This is a very good thread guys. I have learned alot from the responses here. God bless! ;)
Strike while the iron is hot!

Offline drummerforgod

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2008, 04:59:38 AM »
The real question is...How do you "define" secular "music"?

Is Bach secular "music"?



LOOOOOOOL :D

Bach is actually one of the guys who didnt even wrote his name under the craziely good and remarkable stuff he composed and wrote!!!!!!!

He always signed his works with three words! :

"SOLI DEO GLORIA" 

I think that yall know that it means: All Glory belongs to God!

So we can say that Bachs works are maybe one of the most anti-secular works ;)
Just wanted to clear that out ;)


God Bless
Stay in the Pocket of GOD!

Offline Audiocr381ve

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2008, 12:43:31 PM »
I always thought it was the cheesiest of all cheeseiest. Instantly you hear the words to the orginal song in the back of your head. And then you have the few kids singing the original words (that errrryone knows) in the corner making everyone who's singing the "holy" version feel cheesy. If I was a "lost" iperson and heard christians bumpin some of the stuff they do today, I would be sooOOO turned off. We can do BETTER than this people! It's pathetic.

It's easy for us to get in the mode of thinking our efforts are what's going to bring a person to Christ. The Holy Spirit will always be more than enough. Our own efforts will always fail.

You want to keep more young kids at church? Show them love. They can get the club outside of the church.

Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2008, 10:48:19 PM »
Dude I completely disagree...I think you have it backwards.

Most of the great african american secular artists and musicians of today started off in the church, not the world first, and they brought what they got from the church to the world. Beyonce, Gerald Herward, Chris Dave, Whitney Houston, Calvin Rodgers, Usher...etc...All of them started out singing his eyes are on the sparrow, and playing church devotional songs just like we hear every Sunday. Church is the roots, and thats were it's all coming from, so when you hear something at the BET awards, I can almost guarantee that dude or chick started off playing in church somewhere...In other words those arent "The worlds licks" They're actually the churchs licks being recycled.

Plus we have to remember, we cant keep track off everything we pick up when we play and practice and where it came from, we just have to remember to play to the glory of God, and play for no other reason.

Great point on the fact that a lot of the "hot musicians" in secular music today are former and current church cats.
Music is a gifting. Music is a career choice in society today. Musician is a life choice based on the gifting (how far you go is based on your stewardship and obediance and has nothing to do with the benefits of fame or fortune). Inspiration to life is the greatest and most over-looked benefit and inspiration comes from God. 
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline DuvalsLilJohnLumpkin

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2008, 09:04:03 AM »
Let me say this,

I have experienced both.  I have in my young stage of getting things together on the kit played licks from the secular in gospel music along with a full band.  One thing that will say is that it distracts the listener from the message, to the music.  That should never be the case.  The weight of the music should uphold the message, not start a new message or thought process. 

One thing about God, he will give you the art of creation if you dilligently seek it. 

How do we go about fishing for souls musicaly?  Would you catch the fish in a secure or insecure net?  Which do you prefer and why?  How do you define security? 
John 'Lil John" Lumpkin

Offline cas10a

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2008, 09:08:29 AM »
LOOOOOOOL :D

Bach is actually one of the guys who didnt even wrote his name under the craziely good and remarkable stuff he composed and wrote!!!!!!!

He always signed his works with three words! :

"SOLI DEO GLORIA" 

I think that yall know that it means: All Glory belongs to God!

So we can say that Bachs works are maybe one of the most anti-secular works ;)
Just wanted to clear that out ;)


God Bless

LOL...

My point exactly...

...and we still use some of the same progressions in music today.... ;) 8)

Offline cas10a

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2008, 09:18:10 AM »
Most would not have caught what I was saying...and would consider his works and others as being secular or of the world because they were other than what we consider to be Gospel...however we still use the same progressions that many artist/composer's have used before us...

...Just clearing it up...

Offline QCdrummer

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2008, 10:34:12 AM »
Tye Tribbett's music sounds like stuff from everything from rock and roll to jazz to blues.
And I know people who would never even think about listening to gospel or going to church knows about Tye and his music. Long as God is getting the glory, this is all that matters. If playing a hip hop beat on the set will get people to church where they in turn can listen to the Word of God and learn more about him, and ultimately give thier lives over to him, I will play a hip hop beat all morning long.

The enemy has taken people so far away from God and the Church, we have to reach back out there and come from a level that they understand. I believe long as we get them there, God will do what he has to do, but we got to get them there first!
People love music, and when the choir is going and the musicians are going it gets people excited to be in church!!! then they'll come back for more, and when they start soaking in the Word, God will get a hold of them and another soul will be saved.

Didn't mean to write that long, I just got excited. lol!
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Offline JFunky

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2008, 11:05:34 AM »
...my friend is currently rewriting and "Sanctifiying with the Purest Oil" the most ignant song out called..... "Soulja Boi".... :-\ ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

...I can't wait to hear it and what the Youth will think of it. ;D ;D ;D ;D












...I'm joking people.  But you know some are in the shed writing it out or taking the loops off of it to implement it in the Chu'ch. :-\
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."
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