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Author Topic: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?  (Read 14619 times)

Offline cas10a

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2008, 09:10:17 PM »
One quick example that comes to mind thinking about this...just thinking of musical progressions

The song "Never Would Have Made It  - Marvin Sapp uses the same progression as quite a few other Gospel Songs and most would right off say it's a common Gospel progression.

However, RKelly on the 12Play album used the same progression on at least 2 of the songs...secular songs, the progression is almost identical...

...but the message in Never Would Have Made It, is so powerful...it has nothing to do with the progression itself, its the entire message of the song being sung to Glorify God.

just my 2 cents...

God Bless All!

Offline cas10a

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2008, 09:23:12 PM »
Wow, this is generating great discussion. Allow me to drop my 2 cents. First of all, i think using the music of the world shows lack of creativity as a christian. Can't we get our own stuff? Secondly,when people hear stuff from the world (which kirk franklin is famous for) they only think of the secular song that it was from, not the gospel song..........and they start laughing at us. God gave us creativity, lets use it. Why can't the world hear a gospel song and be attracted instead of we using the world's stuff?

lol...Good Point...and without reading this I guess I illuded to an example...

I'm not sure if the same progression in that example was meant to be used (relating to creativity)...but look at just how powerful that song is...

I get your point though.

Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2008, 09:36:44 PM »
And, here is the directlink to your plagiarized non reference cited paragraph about Christmas: http://www.swrb.com/newslett/freebook/holyday.htm

Don't try me, dawg.  Try to clown and you get clowned. 

 ;D

In college, that's called plagiarism.  They'll expel you for that. 


Dude the only clown is you! I used those as a reference point to my argument about accepting Christmas and Easter as pagan holidays taken back by Christians! I though the comment was made about my post not my reference information! Why would I write that whole thing out when its already done for me!? Stay ignorant bro! :-*
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Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2008, 10:30:39 PM »
Man this is so not cool! Listen; music styles are music styles!!! I can go through all of Marvin Sapps last CD and find a secular song that are similar in style and progression. Its not the musical progression that makes a song Christian or secular its the heart and the spirit AND intention behind it!!!!!

You guys have to stop taking scriptures like I John 2:15 out of context!!!!  If you're going to view this scripture the way some of you have then you might as well become Amish or Mennonites!!!

Check these out:

And it came about that He was reclining at table at his [Matthew’s] house, and many tax-gatherers and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him. And when the scribes and the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax-gatherers, they began saying to His disciples, “Why is He eating and drinking with tax-gatherers and sinners?” And hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mark 2:15-17; also Matthew 9:10-12; Luke 5:29-30).

Another example is that Jesus healed and cast out demons on the Sabbath which to the law makers (the Pharisees) was against the law!!! Matthew 12:10, Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5
EVEN Jesus himself had unorthodox ways of reaching the lost AND it wasn't always to the law!!!!




 
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Offline b_jizzle20

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2008, 11:05:22 PM »
Its inevitable that secular songs and gospel song will share chords, progressions, etc, becuase its all music. But like I said earlier, its all about your motive. Tritones were traditionally considered evil and used for evil purposes and now they are used a lot in gospel music. Same thing, but they can be used for evil or be used to glorify God.

....However you cant just take your "motive" and run off with it, theres the middle of the line. When David wanted to bring the Ark into the city, his motive was right but he went about it the wrong way and there was a heavy price...

...When the music is arranged a differently its brings about different emotions, and atmospher, etc...and God expects us to approach him in reverence. When the Priests in Ezekiel 44 entered the inner courts they couldnt come any way they choose, and likewise with worship and praise.


my 2 centzz
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Offline j_kay

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2008, 08:36:43 AM »
Dude the only clown is you! Stay ignorant bro! :-*

Right.   ;)
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Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2008, 09:19:44 AM »
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Offline soul_drummer

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Offline Audiocr381ve

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2008, 11:35:59 PM »
 :-*

Offline j_kay

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2008, 07:12:24 AM »
 :-*
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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2008, 07:17:19 AM »
 :P

Offline JFunky

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2008, 07:21:00 AM »
 :-\
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline j_kay

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2008, 07:23:24 AM »
 :D
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #73 on: February 15, 2008, 02:16:55 PM »
Its inevitable that secular songs and gospel song will share chords, progressions, etc, becuase its all music. But like I said earlier, its all about your motive. Tritones were traditionally considered evil and used for evil purposes and now they are used a lot in gospel music. Same thing, but they can be used for evil or be used to glorify God.

....However you cant just take your "motive" and run off with it, theres the middle of the line. When David wanted to bring the Ark into the city, his motive was right but he went about it the wrong way and there was a heavy price...

...When the music is arranged a differently its brings about different emotions, and atmospher, etc...and God expects us to approach him in reverence. When the Priests in Ezekiel 44 entered the inner courts they couldnt come any way they choose, and likewise with worship and praise.


my 2 centzz
 8) 8)



Yes, it is all music. unfortunatley most don't know that history/foundational truth because we haven't studied and showed ourselves approved... rightly able to divide the word of truth (which goes past the Bible). The church actually established the formal structure of music ie, Church Scales & Modes. The church also banned tri-tones in the 1800s or so calling them the devil-chords. Back then structured education came through the clergy/church (research the history of Harvard and Yale in more modern US times). Today seems like lack of prperation is the lesson of the day.

All the doctrinal stuff can be sumed up or thrown in reference to this thread by the Book of Proverbs. Simply put we need to be diligent about our business of music and stewardship of that gifting/talent and stop reproducing ignorance, slothfulness, fearful, money hungry folk whom have no focus on musical purpose. Creativity is sparked by action. Seek, Ask, Knock. WE have to be willing to know, willing to work. Creativity to us is really Remeberence in the Spirit of already Finished Work(s) placed in us before the foundation of the world. We have to begin with the end in mind (See/Hear and reconstruct it according to the plan layed upon tables like the arc Noah built). We musicians need to educate ourselves "def. to draw out" and understand the spiritual engine inside of what we do.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2008, 02:37:14 PM »
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. I John 2:15

We know the most creative person in the world, why we would need to copy the world when we could just ask for some inspiration?

We have to do our part. Seek. Study as those in the secular world do. They apply the Bibles principles... The church debates the principles. We ask for things we have not prepared our minds to receive. Paul took the time to unlearn the wrong things and make order of the right understanding before making this statement. 3 years in fact. Also he ever remained a diligent student. We have to prove ourselves fruitful and stop being like the fig tree that was curse. The curse God placed on man after the fall was to work by the sweat of the brow. That means effort is required.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline Audiocr381ve

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2008, 12:45:18 AM »
Someone explain a tri-tone to me please.

Offline j_kay

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2008, 08:40:14 PM »
Someone explain a tri-tone to me please.


I could give a theoretical example, but some of the comments touched on it.  Here's a video example:

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Offline DuvalsLilJohnLumpkin

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2008, 08:30:41 AM »
Someone explain a tri-tone to me please.

A Tri-tone is a sharp 4th or flat fifth away from the root.  Example:  If "C" is the root, "F" Sharp is the tritone.
John 'Lil John" Lumpkin

Offline j_kay

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2008, 11:56:36 AM »
Thanks, J!
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Should licks/loops from the world be in gospel music?
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2008, 07:16:19 PM »
I could give a theoretical example, but some of the comments touched on it.  Here's a video example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI6JCVTivoM


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Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker
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