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Author Topic: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?  (Read 1909 times)

Offline Blue in Green

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Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« on: September 04, 2015, 02:06:33 PM »
Hello everyone,

I have perfect pitch and am struggling with how people with relative pitch internalize the home key that they are playing in as they move around chord progressions.

------------------

Some questions regarding the above:

1) Do you know that you're on the 5th of the key, or the minor 2nd, etc, based on the distance between the current key that you're playing AND the home key? If not, how do you do it?

2) If so, how do you not get confused if the same chord progressions can either be ascending, descending, or a mix?

For example, if you're playing a I-VI-II-V, the distance of the VI, II, and V can all be ascending from the I. I would have to hear an interval of an ascending sixth, second, and fifith.

HOWEVER, the VI, II, and V can be descending from the I. In this case, I would have to hear an interval of a descending minor second, a descending minor 7th, and a descending 4th to figure out the chord progression of I-VI-II-V.

How does this not mix you up?

Please help. Thanks!
 

Offline T-Block

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2015, 03:37:57 PM »
It pretty much comes through practice of knowing and recognizing the intervals by ear based off the sound of the home key. Once I know what the home key sounds like, I can tell if it's on a 4, or a 6, or even #5. I can write the whole song out on paper without even being on a piano.

Now that's speaking from someone with a pretty high level of relative pitch. I've always wondered what it was like for people with perfect pitch. You can hear what key a fan is blowing in, the tv hum, and stuff like that, lol.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
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Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 03:57:49 PM »
thanks t block

I lose sight of the home key so quickly.

Can you elaborate on what's going in your head..

If you're playing I-VI-II-V, does the home key keep moving with you?

What I mean is...

Let's say I descends down to VI, does the home key move down as well and you hear an interval of a ascending sixth...

then the VI ascends up to the II, does the home key move up as well and you hear an interval of an ascending second..

etc.

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I've been doing quite well on interval exercises.. I downloaded an ap off musictheory.net, did 500 of them a day, and consistently get over 95% in ascending and descending intervals.

However, I just don't know how to apply these intervals in real time.. why do i lose sight of the home key so easily!?
 

Offline T-Block

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2015, 04:02:46 PM »
Ohhhh....I get what you're asking now. For me, the home key never moves. It's all relative to whatever sound the home key is. So, for example if the home key is C, whether I'm playing an F or a Bb, I never lose that C is my home key.

So, in my head I'm always humming the home key while deciphering all the other sounds. If the song modulates, I get the new home key in my head and base the rest of the sounds off that, etc.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2015, 05:46:33 PM »
T Block, so... if the home key never moves, and all the other sounds are above the home key:

Do you always hear in ascending intervals?


 :o

Offline SketchMan3

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2015, 03:37:37 PM »
All this over-thinking... is making my brain hurt... >.<
No, but seriously. This is fascinating. I never would have thought to ask these questions :o
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Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2015, 08:31:19 PM »
sketchman you are right; I tell myself constantly that I am probably overthinking it and should just go out and play.

However I haven't had one breakthrough in several years.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Do you always hear in ascending intervals if the home key never moves for you?

Offline berbie

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2015, 04:56:19 PM »
Are you asking if one would recognice an interval in the octave below the root as well as in the octave above it?  Surely they would.  Or  put another way,  one would know the sound that they were looking for(based on the key they're in)even if they didn't know the interval.   There are some things other than relative pitch that would help.  It is an advantage to know the number of each note in all scales(or especially the ones most used)very well.  And to know were the notes are on the fretboard.  So if you wanted to play a third, for example, in the key of "C",  you could play any "E".  The intervals would always be going forward from the one of the key that you are in.  So if I played a third in the key of C in a lower octave,  I would consider myself in that octave and the intervals would develop from the one. If I then played an A,  I'd be playing a sixth. Of course,  from the E to the A is not an interval of a sixth.  Now all of this is from an "ear" player, and is not true theory,  but how I internalize the home key.


Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 09:38:22 AM »
Thanks Berbie!

The following statement:

"The intervals would always be going forward from the one of the key that you are in...I would consider myself in that octave and the intervals would develop from the one. "

is one of the questions I was trying to ask before,

If you say that the intervals are going forward, you're saying all the intervals are above the home key:

1) Are you hearing all ascending intervals?

2) Isn't the home key "Moving" registers, as in higher C to lower C?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 12:29:53 PM »
T Block, so... if the home key never moves, and all the other sounds are above the home key:

Do you always hear in ascending intervals?


 :o

I mainly hear in ascending intervals from the home key. If it happens to be played an octave down, I still hear the ascending interval, I just play it in the register that I heard it.

For example, I'm in the key of C, and I hear the C as middle C. If the next note is an F below middle C, I still hear the 4th interval (C-F), but instead of playing the F above middle C, I play it below middle C where I heard it.

Does that make sense?

Now, I do know my intervals theory-wise ascending and descending, but I mainly hear ascending. So, using the same C-F, I do recognize that C-F ascending is a perfect 4th, but descending it's a perfect 5th. My ears (and brain) recognize the ascending perfect 4th faster than hearing it as a descending perfect 5th.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 09:24:44 PM »
Thanks T Block for taking the time to help!  :)

So.. basically.. in your head the home key is constantly shifting to the same register that you're hearing the note?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 10:47:22 AM »
Not necessarily, for me the home key stays where it's at, but I can tell what register to play the notes based off the highness or lowness of the sound.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2015, 04:21:38 PM »
wow. thanks t block.

I know you wrote previously that you're humming the home key while figuring out the rest of the key.

Do you ever lose sight of the home key?

Does the presence of the home key become stronger as you grow musically?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2015, 12:02:57 PM »
Do you ever lose sight of the home key?

When I first started doing serious ear training, I did lose sight of the home key a lot. Not so much anymore, because I've learned to block out what I don't want to hear and focus on what I do want to hear.


Does the presence of the home key become stronger as you grow musically?

It grows as your ear development grows. For me, once I know what the home key sounds like, I can pretty much hear it in every chord because I keep my ear locked into it no matter what other chords or runs I'm playing.

It all comes with time and training.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 07:23:04 PM »
what kind of exercises did you use for ear training?

I have been trying to use the same method you use to find out which key I am in.

In my head, I visualize a keyboard (with a register around middle C) with only 12 keys, the 1st key being the home key.

Whenever I hear a note, I see that key being pressed, and then I try to tell numerically (hopefully by the interval distance and not by sight) how far it is from the home key.

This way, it doesn't matter if a note goes below or above the register of middle C; I'll always know where I am numerically.

HOWEVER I hope my perfect pitch is not AGAIN getting in the way, not giving me tunnel vision.

What I mean is that I am only seeing the notes, seeing the numeric value from the home key, but not FEELING it.

What do you think?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2015, 10:15:34 AM »
There are different websites you can go to for ear training. They contain training for scales, intervals, chords, chord inversions, even basic chord progressions. Whenever I have/had free time, I would spend hours training my ear to hear the nuances in chords, scales, etc. I'm still not where I want to be, but I'm getting better.

The feel comes once you take your "head" out of the forefront and listen with your gut or instincts.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 10:02:26 PM »
Okay - thanks t block for your help. it keeps me motivated to work hard.  :)

Offline Blue in Green

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Re: Have Perfect Pitch; how do you internalize the home key?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 07:28:34 PM »
Hello all,

A couple years ago, I posted in several music forums for advice, and got some really good advice. However, I have not made much of a breakthrough, so will try and rephrase my questions:

I think that my major problem is this:

When I hear any note, not only do I know exactly what note it is, I hear the specific register the note is in and base all other intervals off that note. The big problem, is that the other notes (whether they are part of the current chord or part of another chord) may be in different registers. As a result, I have to hear in both ascending AND descending intervals.

When I am trying to figure out the root of each chord progression, and the root of the new chord progression is descending, I have taught myself to hear that:

1)      A descending minor 2nd is the 7th,

2)      A descending 2nd is a flat 7th

3)      A descending minor 3rd is a 6th………………… and so on

Here’s an example:

1.       If a song is I-VI-II-V-I, and I establish the original register of the home key as C3 (third register of C), then I will hear the subsequent II-V-I in ascending intervals ABOVE C3.

2.       However, if the I-VI-II-V-I  is in different registers BELOW C3, for example: C3-A3-D2-G2-C3, I will hear it as:

a.       C3 (Original Register)

b.       A3 (Ascending sixth)

c.       D2 (Descending minor 7th, which is the II)

d.       G2 (Descending fourth, which is a V)

e.       C3 (Original Register)


As you can see, I have to hear in both ascending AND descending intervals. The above example only is for the root of the chord progression. When I start adding in the non-root elements, like the 3rd, and 5th, etc, then my hearing get’s more and more complicating and exhausting.


Any suggestions to break through this problem?

 
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