Secular music; can anyone disagree? (poll)

[Scales27]

READ THIS!!! I ran the last debate because I was looking for someone to bring up good reasons why listening to secular music is wrong. I want to place my strongest arguments up against theirs so that I can basically debate. Debating is for Christians because it helps them minister to people of other religions. Perhaps even convert them. Its good training. Now for my perspective on sec music. I actually listen to secular music more than gospel music. Not for the words always, sometimes because the beat just sounds good or I like the style of the singer. My perspective on music is this: If you read poetry with the same content, then you should have no problem listening to a song like that. Love poetry and other kinds are not wrong because they are only organized expression. You would listen to a friend talk about how much he loves his girlfriend right? So poetry is no different. Add some instruments and you've got a song. I'm eclectic. I listen to all kinds of music; rap, rock & roll, R&B, gospel, go-go, blues, jazz, country, oldies, spirituals, crunk music, reggae, reggaeton, latin, salsa, greek, inspirational, kids(ok maybe not), and many other kinds. I'm not sure about crunk music and reggaeton because I can't remember the content but, eventually some safe lyrics will accompany those styles (the styles are nice though). I listen to all kinds of music, but almost always look for ways to make a gospel version. The problem with alot of gospel songs is that many are inaccurate, and some that use pop styles try to hard and fail. I give kirk Franklin his Props, he has some good songs. But sometimes he is just corny. I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song. Songwriters need to stop trying to be cool and hip for the "young people"(I'm 17 if you ask) and just make the songs for the entire audience of music listeners(though everybody won't like every song that everybody else likes). To appeal to a group, make something the way you would if you were one of them, not in hopes that your counterfeit style will be similar but just as good. Anyone who isnt afraid to listen to worldly that writes well try this, listen to a real nice worldly song. Pay attention to how the words are formed, to how the beats moves. Then, change the words to something similar with a message from God in it. Rewrite it over and over. Try to put in as much word as possible. Dont look at it as gospel in worldly form, see it as a worldly song with gospel in it. Rewrite it some more. when you have apolished work, just play the song on the piano or listen to the song. Sing along with your words. See how much you'd like it if you were in the world. How much do you like it?  It is good to listen to worldly music because you can mix appealing styles with your piano playing/song writing. Where do you think contemporary piano playing/gospel came from?

[jamaicanbaan]

Wow this is a good topic.................. I remember growin' up ad listenin' to ma Grandmother tell me about strict  Christians not  listenin' to secular music or allowin' there children to do so either......And now these days ALL but a few strong church going people listin' to everything from Rap to "Z."

I wouldn't be shocked to find that everyone that post after me will say that they do indeed listen to other kinds of music outside of religious music............................

[PianoWizard]

Hi,

I must say that there was a time when I did listen to secular music, but being that my mother and father we Christians and I would go to church throughout the week as well as the weekend, there was always a feeling that listening to secular music was wrong.

I know that there are plenty of “so called REASONS” why Christians should listen to secular music, but I say if the music is not unto the glory of God it should not be for us. Today we have become far to slack and we tolerate far too much; we are supposed to be in the world and not of the world.

PianoWiz...

[nessalynn77]

My personal choice is that I do not listen to secular music.  I made that choice because during the time leading up to the day I accepted Jesus as my Savior, I began to lose the desire for secular music, which up until then was a big part of my life.  I can only state what my experience has been, and of course there's no scripture in the bible that all of our music should be gospel, so I don't say that anyone else has to subscribe to what I believe.  I also don't agree with bringing secular songs/artists into gospel music.

[minstral]

I personally don't listen to every kind of secular, but I do listen to some.  The bible tells us that it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out.  I will never sing, write,, or produce secular music, but if ia secular artist wanted to sing a gospel song I would help them out, because they are singing about God.  I am not a judge of any man's heart, plus there are alot of Gospel artists out that aren't living right.  Bottom line is that if eating meat in front of my brother offends him, I just won't eat it in his presence.  If you are not convicted by God about it, then let it ride.  God Bless

[T-Block]

I just put it like this, if it doesn't go against the spirit inside you, then it is o.k. for u to listen to it.  You can't speak for ALL Christians cuz everybody is on a different level and what don't affect u may affect somebody else or vice versa.  Me, I listen to it all: gospel, R&B, rap, hip-hop, pop, rock, jazz, blues, classical, and a few country songs.  I like to play CDs most of the time, but other times i just turn on the radio.  The songs that I listen to don't go against my spirit, so I continue to listen to them.  Even on the radio, if a "bad" song, that goes against my spirit, comes on I turn to another station, pop in a CD, or turn it off.  It is an individual matter and therefore there really is no need to debate this topic.  You can share your views, but a debate is pointless.

[psychopianoman]

Hi,

I must say that there was a time when I did listen to secular music, but being that my mother and father we Christians and I would go to church throughout the week as well as the weekend, there was always a feeling that listening to secular music was wrong.

I know that there are plenty of “so called REASONS” why Christians should listen to secular music, but I say if the music is not unto the glory of God it should not be for us. Today we have become far to slack and we tolerate far too much; we are supposed to be in the world and not of the world.

PianoWiz...

I agree with you. Most secular music has a message from the world and not from the word of God. I personally do not feel right listening to it. I love rock music so I turned to christian rock. Most secular rock music has a message contrary to the word and what it says so I just stay away from it.

As far as if it is ok to listen or not I wold have to say that is personall but it is not ok to be feeding yourself thoughts that go against God. If it not against the Bible in any way then listen.

Proverbs 4:20-28 (King James Version)

20My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.

 21Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.

 22For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

 23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

 24Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.

 25Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.

 26Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.

 27Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.


I desire to protect my mind from the thoughts, ideas, and philosophies of the world so I choose not to listen. Is this right for everyone; I will not say that but I trust God will reward me for this decision daily.

[Scales27]

just to highlight something from that long, paragraphless post that I did six months ago, can you answer these questions, just for ex., I'm only making a case for love songs w/out provocative lyrics

1. If a friend told you about how much he loved someone, would you listen?

2. Do you listen to and/read love poetry that is not gospel?

3. Do you listen to Jazz, Classical piano, or any other wordless peices of music?

1-   If you've answered yes to #1, then love songs can't be much worse because love poetry is only expression in verse, instead of the prose that people normally talk in. If your friend spoke only in verse like Shakespearean characters, you would be listening to love poetry w/out the title. (and then see #2)

2-   If you've answered yes to #2, then you are, in a sense, listening to a love song w/out the beat, as most love song's lyrics are written before the music is added.

3-   If you've answered yes to #3, then you should know that jazz is often based off of love songs (unless you meant gospel jazz), and is thus a secular peice. If you listen to classical music, then you should realize that many classical songs have the same purpose as many love songs do, and therefore was not made to the glory of GOD, so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too.

If you've answered no to all questions then you are very firm in your veiw of secular music and I admire your dedication to it (and also cannot persuade you)

[psychopianoman]

3-   If you've answered yes to #3, then you should know that jazz is often based off of love songs (unless you meant gospel jazz), and is thus a secular peice. If you listen to classical music, then you should realize that many classical songs have the same purpose as many love songs do, and therefore was not made to the glory of GOD, so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too.
quote]

I can see what you are saying but the end of your statement pushes it too far for me. ( so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too) If people want to listen to love music or classical music then they can go for it as it is not contrary to the word of God although it is secular, on the otherhand if that same person wanted to listen to pantera or slipknot or godsmack talking bad about God or some r and b talking about shaking yo booty on the floor and having sex or clubbing then there would be a problem with that.

We can not just lump everything into one category. But I guess we can all believe what we want. Here is what the bible states.

Romans 14
 1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

 5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

 8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

 10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

 12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

 14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

 15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

 16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

 17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

 19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

 20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

 21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

 22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

 23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

I like to state what I believe because it is what makes me who I am. I know what it is to have my music choices attacked because soon after my salvation I started listening to christian rock and some church people thought it was wrong and ungodly. My goal is to listen to music that will not hinder my walk but build me up daily. If I was married then love music could serve that purpous, classical music does the same; it can give you rest and relaxation, evil music that goes against God, it will profit a man nothing.

Ultimately though my opinion really does not matter because we all stand before God in the end. In the end it will not be my opinion against anyone elses but we will all stand before God and have Him tell us what He thinks.
I am fully persuaded in my mind about my views on this subject so I am good. If everyone else is fully persuaded in their minds then so be it, you are good as well.

[tondee]

1. If a friend told you about how much he loved someone, would you listen?

If you've answered yes to #1, then love songs can't be much worse because love poetry is only expression in verse, instead of the prose that people normally talk in. If your friend spoke only in verse like Shakespearean characters, you would be listening to love poetry w/out the title.

This is not an answer to the poll.  I just have a question about the pattern of things.

Do you think that deductive reasoning in such a fashion as this is a fair and safe way of approaching God's words and thoughts??  And to do that on top of God saying that His thoughts are not like ours?  This is similar to how the Pharasees came up with their Mishna, which was one of the issues Jesus slammed them hard for.  

I'm not judging anyone, I'm just saying that the "Ifs, thens, therefores" most of the time don't work when talking about God's thoughts.

Tony

[Scales27]

1. If a friend told you about how much he loved someone, would you listen?

If you've answered yes to #1, then love songs can't be much worse because love poetry is only expression in verse, instead of the prose that people normally talk in. If your friend spoke only in verse like Shakespearean characters, you would be listening to love poetry w/out the title.

This is not an answer to the poll.  I just have a question about the pattern of things.

Do you think that deductive reasoning in such a fashion as this is a fair and safe way of approaching God's words and thoughts??  And to do that on top of God saying that His thoughts are not like ours?  This is similar to how the Pharasees came up with their Mishna, which was one of the issues Jesus slammed them hard for.  

I'm not judging anyone, I'm just saying that the "Ifs, thens, therefores" most of the time don't work when talking about God's thoughts.

Tony

   I actually kind of thought of that. When I was typing it, I was wondering how people would respond to it. After I had submitted it, I did notice that I took an approach that was far too imposing. That specific one that you quoted, I meant to rephrase into a more reasoning tone, rather than the authoritative and possibly accusational way that I posted it. I would have then ommitted the other two and asked how instrumentals made a difference. My excuse...I'm at that "age." I apologize for the approach.

[Scales27]

3-   If you've answered yes to #3, then you should know that jazz is often based off of love songs (unless you meant gospel jazz), and is thus a secular peice. If you listen to classical music, then you should realize that many classical songs have the same purpose as many love songs do, and therefore was not made to the glory of GOD, so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too.
quote]

I can see what you are saying but the end of your statement pushes it too far for me. ( so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too) If people want to listen to love music or classical music then they can go for it as it is not contrary to the word of God although it is secular, on the otherhand if that same person wanted to listen to pantera or slipknot or godsmack talking bad about God or some r and b talking about shaking yo booty on the floor and having sex or clubbing then there would be a problem with that.

We can not just lump everything into one category. But I guess we can all believe what we want.
I like to state what I believe because it is what makes me who I am. I know what it is to have my music choices attacked because soon after my salvation I started listening to christian rock and some church people thought it was wrong and ungodly. My goal is to listen to music that will not hinder my walk but build me up daily. If I was married then love music could serve that purpous, classical music does the same; it can give you rest and relaxation, evil music that goes against God, it will profit a man nothing.

See, I knew that I should have rephrased or omitted that part. I agree completely with what you just said. Like I told Tondee, I took the wrong approach. For this one, I should have simply asked if anyone believed that Secular music is wrong (I said at the beginning w/out provocative content.) but that secular peices are not and then asked for their perspective. I listen to them both because I do not see the harm in either of them as long as I use discretion

[Davelong]

Yep, I listen to everything - that's my job - I'm a bass player and have to know how to play lots of different songs and styles.  By far my favorite to listen to is gospel - lifts my spirit and praises God.  Many other styles I listen to for enjoyment - especially jazz and classical, but I still have to know how to play the other songs and styles at any time. I wish I had the option of just listening to christian music.

(Let's just hope that I NEVER have to play "Me and Mrs. Jones" again!)

[2tight]

READ THIS!!! I ran the last debate because I was looking for someone to bring up good reasons why listening to secular music is wrong. I want to place my strongest arguments up against theirs so that I can basically debate. Debating is for Christians because it helps them minister to people of other religions. Perhaps even convert them. Its good training. Now for my perspective on sec music. I actually listen to secular music more than gospel music. Not for the words always, sometimes because the beat just sounds good or I like the style of the singer. My perspective on music is this: If you read poetry with the same content, then you should have no problem listening to a song like that. Love poetry and other kinds are not wrong because they are only organized expression. You would listen to a friend talk about how much he loves his girlfriend right? So poetry is no different. Add some instruments and you've got a song. I'm eclectic. I listen to all kinds of music; rap, rock & roll, R&B, gospel, go-go, blues, jazz, country, oldies, spirituals, crunk music, reggae, reggaeton, latin, salsa, greek, inspirational, kids(ok maybe not), and many other kinds. I'm not sure about crunk music and reggaeton because I can't remember the content but, eventually some safe lyrics will accompany those styles (the styles are nice though). I listen to all kinds of music, but almost always look for ways to make a gospel version. The problem with alot of gospel songs is that many are inaccurate, and some that use pop styles try to hard and fail. I give kirk Franklin his Props, he has some good songs. But sometimes he is just corny. I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song. Songwriters need to stop trying to be cool and hip for the "young people"(I'm 17 if you ask) and just make the songs for the entire audience of music listeners(though everybody won't like every song that everybody else likes). To appeal to a group, make something the way you would if you were one of them, not in hopes that your counterfeit style will be similar but just as good. Anyone who isnt afraid to listen to worldly that writes well try this, listen to a real nice worldly song. Pay attention to how the words are formed, to how the beats moves. Then, change the words to something similar with a message from God in it. Rewrite it over and over. Try to put in as much word as possible. Dont look at it as gospel in worldly form, see it as a worldly song with gospel in it. Rewrite it some more. when you have apolished work, just play the song on the piano or listen to the song. Sing along with your words. See how much you'd like it if you were in the world. How much do you like it?  It is good to listen to worldly music because you can mix appealing styles with your piano playing/song writing. Where do you think contemporary piano playing/gospel came from?

I feel it is nothing wrong with listening to secular music.I listen to secular music everyday.That how i know some of the chords and licks that i know from secular music.

[psychopianoman]

I listen to all kinds of music, but almost always look for ways to make a gospel version. The problem with a lot of gospel songs is that many are inaccurate, and some that use pop styles try to hard and fail. I give Kirk Franklin his Props, he has some good songs. But sometimes he is just corny. I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song.

Being that u wanted a debate I will give you one.

1. 95% of the music on a secular rock, rap, or alternative music station is going to have bad language, sexual undertones, negative ways of dealing with life problems, or drug content. Country music is not as bad but a lot of it contains the above mentioned material. To listen to these stations you would spend more time changing stations to get away from immoral content.

Proverbs 4:20-27

20My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
21Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
22For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
24Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
25Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.
26Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.
27Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.


2. It is a bad thing to credit the world for what God has done. You stated "It is good to listen to worldly music because you can mix appealing styles with your piano playing/song writing. Where do you think contemporary piano playing/gospel came from?" This is a lie. God is the creator of all things and we do not need the world for influence; we have the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us.

Proverbs 3:6
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.



3. You said "I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song."

Again this is a lie. We are never taught in the word of God to be like the world nor fashion our ways after theirs nor are we to seek acceptance by them. Christian music does not live on because we as Christians do not support it and have people thinking it is ok to listen to secular junk.

Romans 12:1-2

1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Isaiah 33:15-16

15He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure

Colossians 1:16-23

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

Luke 10:27
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

2 Corinthians 3:14
14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:4
4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Romans 1:28
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

We are never told to be like the world or turn our ears to the world or pattern ourselves around their ways. We are called to be children of light. Our mind is the battle ground that Satan does his fighting on. God shows us in His Word that we can become hardened, blinded, corrupt, and debased and the only positive factor is the opposite end and that is a renewed mind through the word of God and not the word of the world.

Do what you will with your mind but let it be known that it is not a toy and there are ample warnings in the BOOK about what we should and should not allow into our mind. There is more but I will need to do some further studying. There is no way I will try to justify worldly music on the assumption that it can help a christian make music. Most of it is bad, I do not see how it could even be tolerated. Your turn.

[Scales27]

First of all, I like your arguments. Very effective. If you want to be more effective, try posting the most relevant scriptures so I can really get your point. One thing that you have over me, I can only paraphrase scriptures because I forget where I read them (I'm a young Christian). I won't post any this time...I have my reasons but here are my arguments.

First off, the statistics, in general are lower than 95% for the liklihood of hearing immoral content on the radio. The interesting thing is, however, I don't listen to the radio much because I'm picky about what I listen too. I'm eclectic but picky. Since the probability of hearing bad lyrics are still a little high, I agree that Christians should just choose Christian stations over other ones, or listen to CD's.

I need to find the scripture for this, but I could have sworn that the BIBLE says all things are inspired by GOD (I have a question about that). So, if I'm not mistaken, God inspired a person to emulate a worldly style. I can't find the scrpiture so I may have ommitted something but this however is still true. Just as Kirk Franklin sampled Funkadelics on his stomp song (the one without Salt). Also, Hezekiah and other artists have phrases and shouts(like oh-oh! OH-OH! and a few others). In other words, GOD can direct one to emulate one such style.

Third, the scripture Proverbs 4:20-27 is right, probably was not made to be taken for its literal meaning, for if it was, then that would mean that Christains should only listen, and view things that have to do with GOD. I'm asking YOU, not just for the debate but because maybe I interpret wrong, but if that scripture was literally taken, then wouldn't that mean that Christains should not watch TV, including Barney with their kids, the News, cartoons. I also ask, what is the difference between listening to a song with profanity or violence, and watching a movie with the same content. Is a Steven Segal movie exempt? no? What about terminator? (I'm serious, but joking)

The third thing you said in response to what I said about making a song that resembles worldly music I actually cannot argue with. When your right your right (lol, your right)

Romans 12:2

that scripture means that Christains shouldn't act like the world, but that does not mean that Christains cannot do things because the world does them or makes them. ex. Christains shouldn't try to intimidate people like the world does but Christains can definetely work at a post office like many sinners do. And Christains can definetely use things including CERTAIN KINDS of music, as I constantly have to repeat that THAT is what I'm defending, that the world uses for entertainment or to reach out into the world. If we cannot then we should do research to make sure that all people who made things like tootbrushes, plumbing and fried chicken were Christains. Now if you say that all things are created by GOD then it doesn't matter because God made it and he does not promote sin and therefore if he made it, it is OK for Christains.

Also, you said that most secular music is bad, most never translates into all and I REPEAT FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME, I HAVE ONLY BEEN ARGUING FOR SECULAR MUSIC WITH SAFE CONTENT. I like your style, and I'm sure that you can respond.

[psychopianoman]

We are on the same page then because I am only arguing against secular music that contains bad material. But lets keep this thing going because I do have a few comments.

First of all here is the scripture you are looking for.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


The word inspiration here is a bit deeper than the word we use today. This word in the Greek is theo nustas and it is translated "God breathed". The scriptures literally came from the mouth of God. Inspiration today generally comes from our lives and from the Word we read and our encounters with God which is inspiration but it is different than the inspiration shown here and this totally applies only to the scriptures if using this verse.

Second; I posted those scriptures to show the higher calling God has placed on our lives.

2 Timothy 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

It is not about what can we do and still be a Christian but how do we wish to see God move in our lives. The scriptures I chose were more of a challenge to raise above the mediocrity so people can see what God has for them.

Third the music ratio of 95% may be wrong but in which direction. I do not know but I use the radio on the internet and the stuff people listen to at work and 8 to 9 out of 10 songs are going to be bad so that is where I got my percentage but that would really be like 80 to 90 percent. Still to high to even be looking for a good beat on a secular station.

Lastly the comments on the passage in proverbs are correct, it is to be taken literally for it is the word of God and is "God breathed" and it is calling us to a higher standard but before we ever make an interpretation of the scriptures then we must first read it and then study it out.

Proverbs 4:20-27

20My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
21Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
22For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
24Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
25Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.
26Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.
27Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.

Verse 20 and 21 are telling us to listen, this is what we need to do with the Word of God and then verse 22 tells us why. We move on to verse 23 and we are given a warning; more like a command and then 24-26 tell us how we take heed to this warning. We are not to have a froward mouth or perverse lips and 25 and 26 are dealing with our walk with God. It is sort of like a race. When you run a race you look straight ahead and set out an established path as you run around the track so you are ready for any hurdles that may lie before you and then we have verse 27. The age old question: What is evil? Your answer lies in this last verse and I have not studied it out so I will not answer this but here is another verse that is useful.

Hebrews 12:1-7

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The idea here is that we are running a race and we need to get rid of the extra weight and the sin that besets us. According to these versus then evil is anything that holds us back from moving forward in our relationship with God. The idea I get from all of it is to not be looking at the other side of the fence and thinking that it is greener on the other side, God has called us and saved us with a holy calling so we need to tighten up and set our eyes on the prize and not worry about the world and all its doings and to be looking at what they are doing but set our eyes on Christ.

Wow here is an awesome verse I totally forgot about.

Philippians 3:8-17

8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing

I want you to know something, I am sorry I did not pay better attention to your post :lol: , I got it now for the UMPTEENTH TIME, I understand your point and most of my post was inspired for ME. I have been going thru some hard times and my mind has been under attack and this little study I did has got me all fired up and back in spiritual shape but I still thought I would post it anyways.

[psychopianoman]

Just to let everyone know; me and scales27 are having a healthy debate and we do not hate eachother or are we angered at eachother.

My style is a little agressive, just wanted to get that out so people would not think we r fighting and lock us out.

[Scales27]

What you said about 80-90% of the songs on the radio, OK, I was really going to say that 85% of the songs are bad but that wouldn't help my argument. I listen to CD's anyway. I very seldom listen to the radio because I have to keep changing stations, I don't listen to certain kinds of songs and I don't like radio commercials.
    I must ask you, are you saying that listening to any kind of secular music is a weight? If you are, then I cannot agree with you. Most secular songs are a weight. Especially the songs of my generation. Some secular songs, however, may actually help Christains with there walk with Christ. Of course this is totally dependant on how the person responds to it. Lets say a Christain woman slips up and haves sex and discovers that she's pregnant and is so ashamed that she is considering abortion to cover it up. Maybe Nick Cannon's songs, "Can I live" can minister to her and give her the strength to keep her baby, and thus not sin further by killing it, and by not sinning that second time she is closer to GOD for making the right decision. GOD can use anybody to speak to someone, but nobody can do the full will of GOD without first accepting him into his life.
   Now that we've gotten on the same page pretty much, this isn't much of a debate. It's become a discussion, which is good. Not as fun as a debate but is good. I hope and pray that you get through whatever has been bothering you. If you don't agree with anything I just said then we can draw it out a little longer. If not then I'm sure we'll "face off" again.

[MikeGee]

my opinion has nothing to do with anyone else and everything to do with me and my choices, to be honest I do not listen to hip hop or rap not because I'm a Christian but beacuse I've gotten bored of it. More then 80% of it sounds the same, its gotten very repetitive and futher more the topic is most of the time the same to me. If I'm going to do something that is repetitive it will remain worshiping and praising my GOD.

There is maybe 2 or 3 secular songs that I do like; Ben E. KIngs- Stand by Me, Bill Withers- Lean on Me, Marvin Gaye- Whats Going On. Other then that Probably nothing.