Music Theory Rules

[shawna]

Hello. I have a question/concern that I'd like somebody who's really knowledgeable in theory to address.  (Be sure to include your e-mail address as I would like to speak with you more directly) There are a lot of music sites that show you different techniques, yet they don't tell you why they were able to do what they did. They don't tell you the theory, or the certain rule that applied to that situation.  Naming chords is not enough, because sometimes, they do that wrong! I could purchase DVD's for days that showed me how to play stuff, but I'd like to know the basic principles so I can make conscious decisions on my own; I won't have to stumble upon a good chord.  By knowing the rules I could be intentional in my moves.  Is there anybody who knows the GENERAL RULES FOR GOSPEL MUSIC? To say that it doesn't have them is, I believe, in error.

[sacred-composer]

Shawna I had to think a moment before I commented on your question. Gospel Music is based on the foundation of traditional western music theory. We use the 12tones of the western chromatic scale see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ for the Wikipedia, the free encclopedia for more indepth information. From these 12 tones we form our traditional major, natural minor, harmonic minor, modes etc. from these 12 tones. Out of the scales we form our triad chords i.e. major, minor, augmented, diminished. The use of two chords or more in sequence form our chord progressions. These in essence sums up all of western music, classical, folk, jazz etc. and of course gospel. The roots of gospel music obviousily goes back to our African roots. The use of the pentatonic scales, syncopated rhythms, dance, "call and response" used in the soloist with the choir responding back are just some of the musical elements in gospel music which our ancestors carried in their souls to America.
Our spirituals which came out of slavery such as "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen" "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" etc. use the pentatonic scales. Now for chord progressions I will stop here because there are too many entries on this site with theoretical chord progressions. But I thought I would start it off. I know that there are others who can add to this discussion as well.

[shawna]

Thanks for your reply sacred-composer, but perhaps I didn't fully express what I was thinking.  I'm familiar with how to form chords and how to play certain chord progressions.  I'd just like to know the rules behind the chord progressions.  If this site answers my question, maybe there's something that I overlooked and should review again. Your response would be greatly appreciated.

[aljeres]

their are definitley rules that apply to playing progressions, from chord to chord!

it all really starts with knowing the 8 basic chords and the actual way to play those 8 paticular chords. ( maj,min,min,maj,maj,min,dim,maj)

now that is the real basic way to play those chords; for starters......now if you don't know this, or if you choose not to apply this basic knowledge in you playing, then it is impossible to show you the alternat chords, or substitutes, because they would involve reversing the rule!

also from knowing those basic chords and playing them the way they should be played, allows us to play them in their other inversions, which as we know can only be played off of the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th.......
this alone opens options on top of options, at you choice! and if you playem enough, you will know what it sounds like for when you want to play it!

now then you can play the alternat chords, and play those in the inversions they can be played in, and wow! you start really acting up on the board!

i hope i was able to help, someone can take it from here!

i will say this, as you play these chords, you will notice that certain chords go together! ex: the 5 will always lead you to the 1.....it becomes a series of patterns after a while once you know how they go together!

1 to 4__ 4 to 7__ 7 to 3__ 3 to 6__ 6 to 2__ 2 to 5__ 5 to 1......

and this never changes! unless you are breaking the rules for the most part! traditional tends to follow the rules.....like those nbrs. i just gave! but now contemparary is another thang!

[JoyCH]

their are definitley rules that apply to playing progressions, from chord to chord!

it all really starts with knowing the 8 basic chords and the actual way to play those 8 paticular chords. ( maj,min,min,maj,maj,min,dim,maj)

now that is the real basic way to play those chords; for starters......now if you don't know this, or if you choose not to apply this basic knowledge in you playing, then it is impossible to show you the alternat chords, or substitutes, because they would involve reversing the rule!

also from knowing those basic chords and playing them the way they should be played, allows us to play them in their other inversions, which as we know can only be played off of the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th.......
this alone opens options on top of options, at you choice! and if you playem enough, you will know what it sounds like for when you want to play it!

now then you can play the alternat chords, and play those in the inversions they can be played in, and wow! you start really acting up on the board!

i hope i was able to help, someone can take it from here!

i will say this, as you play these chords, you will notice that certain chords go together! ex: the 5 will always lead you to the 1.....it becomes a series of patterns after a while once you know how they go together!

1 to 4__ 4 to 7__ 7 to 3__ 3 to 6__ 6 to 2__ 2 to 5__ 5 to 1......

and this never changes! unless you are breaking the rules for the most part! traditional tends to follow the rules.....like those nbrs. i just gave! but now contemparary is another thang!

Great post, Al!

Joy

[aljeres]

coming ya way soon, maybe i'll give ya shout! be blessed!

[musmin7]

it's refreshing to hear someone asking questions that will lead to greater musicianship and skill level. and not just saying show me that (.com) :lol:

and it's also refreshing to hear well thought out and explained comment and answers to these questions from a master such as you al. and you sacred-composer
thank you for sharing what God has given you continue to be a blessing.

[CESharp]

Okay ya'll, I'm at work right now but I have tears in my eyes because I now understand progressions!!!!!!!!  It's because of this posting talking about how you go from the 1 to the 4 to the 7 to the 6,5, etc. that I finally get it!!!!!!  I know now that as long as you follow that pattern (you can skip a #: like 4 to the 7 to the 1 instead of going 4-7-6-5-2-1, right?).  Ooooooh weeeee God, I am soooooooooo excited!!!!  I can just hug all ya'll RIGHT NOW!!!!!

It seems as though Thank You just isn't enough for how much you all are teaching me.  As soon as I become a millionare, I will hook ya'll up!!!!! (smile) :lol:  :wink:

[CESharp]

Okay now, I'm confused again!  Are there more than one progression scale?  You've listed the 1-4-7-3-6-2-5-1.  Do all other progression circle around this?

Thanks

[4hisglory]

I use to have problems understanding progressions until I finally realized that a progression is only the movement from one chord to another.

A general rule may be

7-3-6-2-5-1

but for me, I just think about about which chord I am going to.

Example:
If I am in the key of C, and I and I want to move to the C Chord (1 chord), I can Do the following


1.   D G C    -tradition 2 - 5 - 1
2.   D Db C    -Still a 2 5 1 basically but I substitued the G chord
3.   Ab Db C -Another 2 5 1 but I substitued the D and the G
4.    D B C   -Approach C from a half step below
5.   Gb Eb C -move in minor 3rds

etc.....

The key is to be able to voice your chords correctly which takes alot of work (which I stil cant really do but I'm practicing now. )

[CESharp]

So 4HG, how did you get #2,3,4, & 5? as a 2-5-1 in the key of C? What exactly is the rule of thumb when working with progressions? Are you substituting whatever you think sounds good or is there a rule?

thanks

[B3Wannabe]

In jazz, it is common to preceed/substitute a chord in a progression by sharping or flatting it or even using a whole step.

If you have...

7-3-6-2-5-1-4

...you can also do...

7-3-6-b2-2-5-1-4

or

7-3-6-1-2-5-1-4

Usually, when you do this the added chord would be the same type of chord as the next one....but not necessarily.

[musmin7]

So 4HG, how did you get #2,3,4, & 5? as a 2-5-1 in the key of C? What exactly is the rule of thumb when working with progressions? Are you substituting whatever you think sounds good or is there a rule?

thanks

he's using a tritone sub here's a chord sub chart that will show you
http://www.apassion4jazz.net/tritone.html

it will also explain why do a search on tritones  on this board always a hot topic you'll find plenty info.
remember there is always a reason why it works (theory) not just because it sounds good to you which is great but a car does not run on gas just by chance it was designed that way and such is the case with music. It works the way it does because of design.

[4hisglory]

Misumin said it.  I was using a tritone substitution.