False Prophets and Preachers

[zacke12]

I want to get some input about a discussion I was having with a few friends about the issue of prophecy; my questions is it possible for God to use a fornicating, beer drinking, lying preacher to reach thousands even millions of souls actually touch lives and people get saved under their "so-called" ministry? I know that there will be many answers to this questions, so I am going to just put MY OPINION out there.

I have known of some pastors that were caught in Homosexuality and adultery and continues to walk in these things, I really think that people's lives have been touched and that some were even saved while listening to this person.

Is it possible for a person to get saved listening to a preacher that walks in immorality and sin?

[BBoy]

Yes.

[Shawn]

I believe that there are alot of preachers and teachers out there who are doing wrong and still preaching.  But I also believe that in the midst of their wrong doing they will somehow someway come under some kind of test from God that will eventually change them from what they used to be to what God wants them to be.  And we as christians also have to remember that we cannot judge people because there is only one ultimate judge and that is the Lord himself.  But if you know someone of that nature never forget that prayer can change things and that if we pray for them God will deliver them from their sinful style of living.  And we have to remember that all fall short of the glory of god.  I am not saying this to take up for them but many fall by the wayside because of temptation and the devil but I believe that is what strengthens your faith because you have gone through the troubles and identity crisis.  But we find ourselves seeing that pray and ask God to deliver and help don't be so quick to jude and critize.  And last but not least if you are a minister/teacher who does that you should pray yourself because God is a doctor in the sick room, a deliver, a healer and most of ALL A FORGIVER OF ALL YOUR SINS. so we must forgive and pray and fast and mostly read the word of God for help in trying times.

[zacke12]

That was powerful stuff man! I totally agree with everything that you wrote. I don't people understand the trials that pastorss and preachers have to face at times. For example, the bible states that "...a man cannot stand fire in his bosom." You have some women the actually look and seek out successful pastors and try and seduce them into immoral acts of sin. Some have fallen, and others have stood the test. But I think Donnie said it best when he said We Fall Down but We Get UP! Be blessed Man

[ee_guy]

And we as christians also have to remember that we cannot judge people because there is only one ultimate judge and that is the Lord himself.  

I have been thinking about this topic much.  In fact, we Christians must judge our leadership.  If your pastor is not fit, then at least, you have to find another church.  There are reasons to remove a pastor and there are reasons to leave a church.

We must judge the self-professed Christian leadership.  The network TV preachers who tell the viewers that a "gift" to their minsitry will equal God pouring out His blessings.  These people don't represent me, and the awful truth is, they give you and me, as Christians, not only a bad name, but render us laughingstocks to any sane person.

The key here is that there are different kinds of judgements.

[T-Tott]

In the Bible in the book of St. John the eigth chapter when the scribes and Pharisees caught a woman in the very act of adultry. And she taken in front of the church to Jesusby these 14 men who caught her in her very act, and all Jesus said was "He without sin among you cast the first stone."
What I am getting at is that we have got to stop looking at the Pastor as Jesus, causes he is not. I am not justifying what the preacher is doing, but who am I to judge.

[Fantom]

Excellent discussion, I have these types of discussions with my father quite frequently.  Ranging from the applicablity of tithes, wearing or particular clothing, to judging others in church.  My common answer when someone judges another person, is say "judge not lest thy self be judged".  Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

[ee_guy]

Soooo....

Your pastor is embezzeling money (Pat Roberson), drinking, and doing business with prostitutes (Jimmy Swagert), selling crack out of the church, and...(pick your favorite convicted Roman Catholic priest)...

Nooooo probelm!  Judge not, lest ye be judged!

And what about serving on a jury in a criminal case?

In a jury room: "I don't care home many women and children he shot and cut up with scissors.  I'm a Christian, who am I to judge this man?"

[BBoy]

This is a topic that takes a lot of teaching . . . sound, Bible teaching. Paul took the Corinthians to task because they refused to deal with a brither who was involved in incest . . . they said, "Hey . . . we can't judge!" The powerful apostle told them that they had better put that guy out of their midst. Paul also taught the Corinthians that it was wrong to take your brother to court . . . to sue him in front of unbelievers. But then what did Paul say? He said to find a wise man among you who can judge these things. Paul asked the church, "Don't you know that you shall judge angels? How much more the things of this life?" What was happening, you see, is that the church's refusal to stand up for what was right was resulting in frustration and resentment, and causing christians to run to the world for help!

Saints, there is a difference between "I forgive you," and "What you are doing doesn't matter."  In these last days, I believe we are going to find more and more saints say "I love you, but I will not be a part of something unholy."  

None of our business? Then whose business is it, pray tell? Tell me, would you go to a person with no money to counsel you on finances? What does he have to tell you?

We are not judging, saints, when we see truth and deal with it. Of course, "dealing with it" is for the proper church authorities to handle. Now y'all be blessed . . . BBoy

[ee_guy]

BBoy - Well said!

I want to make a correction to my earlier post:  I used Pat Robertson as an example of an embezzling pastor.  That is not true.  I meant Jim Baker.  Pat Robertson lost his own money by investing in an "over-unity" energy source (perpetual motion), as if free energy is possible.  (Although that level of stupidity should be a sin.)

[B3Wannabe]

"I don't care home many women and children he shot and cut up with scissors.  I'm a Christian, who am I to judge this man?"

Being a christian has nothing to do with this, you only "judge" a person when you speculate, when you don't know everything about what happened....in other words, gossiping can cause false accusations (judgements). BUT, if you've seen the person on the corner selling crack, killing people, cutting up people with scissors then saying "HE/SHE'S GUILTY" isn't judging. "You shall know them by their fruits."

Luke 13:6-9 Can be applied to this where the gardener/dresser is you on the jury.

This all falls under reaping what you sow too. Ofcourse we aren't suppose to give an eye for an eye, or that type of thing, but we also have to live by the rules of the land. It's said many times that the bible is "first natural then spiritual", so if we're suppose to obey God's laws, we're suppose to obey man's laws too....or suffer the consequenses (reap what we sow.)


I'm in the military, many people try to use the "thou shalt not kill" commandment to get away from doing their duty. Don't they know that God himself sent His people to kill many times, not to mention doing it himself. In the military, we have a job, I don't necessarily have to kill people myself, but I support the infantry people who do, by making sure they're supplied with the goods to do their job. However, if I found myself in between crossfire, I wouldn't hessitate to pull the trigger.

Going back to what was said: God put us, christians here to be the leaders of the world in the first place. If we can't judge them correctly, and fairly, who can? A person can be forgiven, but that doesn't take away the fact that they have to pay for what they did. Paul killed/helped kill christians. He became one of the greatest, if not the greatest apostle. He still reaped what he sowed. On the cross next to Jesus, there was a thief. He accepted Jesus just before he died, and Jesus himself said the man was going to make it to paradise. I bet the people on the ground thought he was going to rot in hell.

In conclusion, if you do so happen to find yourself on a jury. It's ok. Just make sure you pray that person gets himself right before his life ends.

[praiser22]

Is there a difference between judging and condemning?  I do believe that there is only one standard in which we are to use to pass judgement, and that is the Word of God.  The problem is that a lot of times we use our own emotions as a source of justification for passing judgement.  Look at the 12 that followed Jesus.  In today's society, we would have treated them like dirt, let alone believe that they could ever follow Jesus.  Matthew was a tax collector, usury would better describe his tactics.  Peter was always ready to fight somebody.  Thomas was a pessimist.  James and John were ready to call down fire on "us" heathen.  Yet, our Lord and Savior called them out, and made them fishers of men.  I guarentee you that there are some of these characteristics running rampant within today's church.  So who wants to cast the first stone?

The bible also says, to be careful how you judge, for that same measure will be judged towards you.  If your walk is upright, pure, and holy then don't be afraid of judgement.  However, if there are some skeletons in your closet, don't go poking around in someonelse's.  God could be preparing them for the (heavenly) fire, for when the dross is burned off, there's nothing left but pure gold.

[ee_guy]

I'm in the military, many people try to use the "thou shalt not kill" commandment to get away from doing their duty.

A better translation would be:  "don't commit cold-blooded murder".

I used the "jury" illustration because there are various sects of Christians who do not serve on juries because they would have to "judge".

Also, the story regarding Jesus and the adulterous woman is not found in the oldest (and most authentic) documents.  In other words, it may have been added in the late 1st century.

(And B3Wannabe - I agree with you about "pulling the trigger".  I wouldn't have hesitated to target, hand-off and issue the "fire" command to my gunner (M60 A3 - some idea of how old I am), if I was ordered to engage.)