For you secular music listeners and secular drummers

[lilben]

Here is something to think about. I know alot of musicians on this site have made an excuse that they play secular music because they need money to eat. Yo thats just an excuse. If you have faith in god and believe in his word you wont need secular music. So people who keep saying "a brotha gotta eat" stop saying that crap its just an excuse.
I know its not directly to us musicians but i just want you guys to read this persons views of heavy metal, hard core metal, and other secular music.


The Vision
In 1990 God gave me a vision. He showed me a vision of young people all over the world and how that they were being led astray by music. In more detail he showed me that the white youth of America were being lead astray by the Heavy Metal and Hard-core Metal music fad. Many young people became victims of this Satanic move of darkness upon the music industry and suicide, pornography, drugs, and parental defiance was portrayed as being “popular”, or the “in thing” by this perverted music style. Heavy Metal and Death Metal artists sang perversions and pushed these horrible values upon the white youth of America with little resistance from the society. The end result was suicide, Satan worship, and drug use by our youth and the loss of many souls. The white youth of America is still suffering from the influence of Acid metal artist to this day.

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In the same vision, God showed me that Heavy Metal music was not reaching the black youth of America and that the enemy had a greater plan in store for us. He showed me that the enemy was creating a new type of music that would reach far beyond the color barriers that Heavy Metal could. The enemy’s plan was to create a form of music that not only influenced the Black youth of America, but it would reach the White, Hispanic, and all other races and influence them to act and behave in total rebellion to God and to their parents. The music he showed me that would surface is what we now call Hip Hop. The music that is performed by today's Hip Hop artists is directly similar to Heavy Metal. Gangsta rap and hip hop artists have bridged the gap of Satanism and the occult that once divided the races, and now has produced the most popular, culture driven music ever. Many of these artists distort the bible and Christianity by claiming to be messengers of God and some even claim to be Christ. Sex has also become popular in Hip Hop. New female and male rappers have began to use sexual perversions to sell millions of records that promote hard-core pornography to young teenage girls and boys. We as a church must be aware of the danger of music laced with sex, violence, Satanism, and drug use. God showed me that this music would introduce young teenagers to sexual relationships without the consent of their parents. It would take the place of their parents as role models and form a nation of fearless young people that would be rebellious to society and to God as well..
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I guess the saddest part of what God showed me was the relationship of this Hard-core music and the music of our church! God showed me that the enemy would not only pervert the secular music, but that he would even began to involve these perverted artists with Christian music. God showed me an outburst of Christian music that would promote these sinful artists by including them on Christian albums, by using these same secular producers and artists to produce Christian music, and also by these perverse artists using Christians on their albums to validate them and their lifestyles! I never thought that it could happen but it is happening!! Christians have began to not only listen to and purchase this corrupt music form, but has welcomed these secular artists into the Gospel and Christian music industry. Many choirs and groups have cloned lyrics, musical phrases, and clichés from this perverse music style and has placed it in their songs hoping to win the favor of the world. But the end of it is the promotion and support of the artists that are destroying our youth of today. Don't misunderstand me, there is nothing wrong with bangin' beats and hype music, (we have plenty of it on our projects) as long as the message is in line with God and his word. But taking music and phrases that was once sinful and explicit music and adding it to God's music is not supported in the scripture. God doesn't need what it took drugs, sex, and violence to create, in his music. Homosexuality, adultery, and fornication have swept across our churches and the music industry in such great numbers until hard-core secular music almost has a place in the lives of some modern day believers. But the end is deception and deceit. The enemy is on the prowl and he is going for big numbers seeing that these are the last days and the last generation..

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The best part of the vision that God gave me was the solution!! Someone has to uphold the standard that God has given us in his word. We must be separate from the world in order to reach the world. We must be examples of true Christians in order to win the lost. We cannot appear to be lost or conform to the worlds standards because we want to appeal to them. Our God is not an alternative, but he is the true way. We as EX are called to uphold that standard. We believe that Gospel music can be attractive to the secular world without using samples or artists of the secular worlds music. We must offer a solution to the rising, money making schemes that lead millions of teenagers and young adults into spiritual bondage by promoting what is evil and perverse. EX is here to fight against that.. You are also playing a role in the solution by supporting this ministry. EX is God ordained and will operate in the direction of the Holy Spirit. No matter how hard it gets, we vow to you and God to uphold the standard that God has set for us and is setting for the true believers. We have a purpose and God is revealing it to us daily.
The world needs the message of hope without the influence of the secular industry. Remember, “secularized” Christian music will only draw people to the secular, but the Spirit of God will draw them to Jesus Christ.

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[JrDADrumma]

Hey man, Elder G. Craige Lewis came to my church here in Springfield, MA. He's is a very annointed man of God. I'm 17, and here in Springfield, I can see the music effecting my age group especially. It used to affect me, but Elder Lewis's message encouraged me to change what I listened to. Now, I'm all gospel, all the time, and I can clearly see a difference in my thinking and actions.

[beantownborn]

I noticed over a hundred views on this but only 2 responses. I can understand and see that influence in some of Christian music today.  We do have be careful what we allow in.  Many people come to church for three reason; curiosity, music, then the message.  

Thanks for the post, lilben.

[octopus]

i beleive that christian music does not offer great music, wehn i mean music, i mean the quality. i listen to a lot of secular music, usher is my favorite but thats because one of the badest drummers plays with him. i bet if it was never for secular music, you would have never heard of many cats that are way better than those in the gospel scene... if you want some scripture then here goes: "... take only whats good from the bad..." secular music can affect you, but you have to be becareful, monitor your motives for why you listen to it... its a good learning source, sorry but its the truth.

Godbless

[JrDADrumma]

Hey Octopus, if you don't mind me asking, where can I find that scripture? I'm only 17, and am always trying to learn something new about the Word of God. God Bless

[Slick1]

Lilben, I agree with you 100%.  But you have to realize that some people attend college as a Music Major; i.e, Music Performance.  Which in turn is their profession.  There are no Ushers and Alicia Keys of the gospel world.  Gospel music groups, such as choirs; change musicians; especially drummers like there is no tomorrow.   I know that the word says be in the world, but not of the world.   What I am trying to say is this........many drummers have come from the church and went on to play with great circular artist.  But that is all that it is, A JOB!!!!!!!  You are a  christian 24/7/365.  You never know what may happen, that guy/girl might rub off on that unsaved person and they turn their life over to the LORD.  Just becuase you are playing that type of music, does not mean that you are living that way.  Professional Musicians, have to play professionally to earn income.  So in that case, I guess that christians should not participate in high school and college music organizations that play circular music.  Especially black college bands.   : :?:   I think that people have a misconception of christians anyway and especially christian musicians.  All my life I have dealt with this.  People beleive that if you are a christian that you are supposed to be all stuffy and just sit in a corner and pray all day.  That is not the case.  We like to have fun and do normal human things, like WORK!!!  I am sure that you don't only listen to John P. Kee's drummer or Fred Hammond's.  If you are a true percussionist, then you listen to all types of music to see what the drummer is doing and try and mock it.  We all do it.  My point is this, you are what you are and YOU ARE THE DETERMINING FACTOR in anything that happens in your life.  Stay Blessed.  

Peace

[freddyfusion]

i agree 95%
just don't lump us all together and say "all you secular music drummers"
last time i checked not all secular music is gangsta rappin' satan worship.
that is why i don't say i don't listen to ANY secular music, because not all of it is bad.

[mrwhite]

What up family.  I have given my viewpoints on this same topic from previous posts, and couldn't help but to post something as well in this one.  Basically I believe we all have to truly go by our own convictions when it comes to how we live out our salvation.  In everything we do, we should be pleasing God number one, continuing to pray, studying the word and ministering to others for the building of His kingdom.  I'm taking drum lessons from a guy I went to high school with, who also plays the organ for his church and is an aspiring music producer--- :roll: anyway,  he said something to me that made me think....he said that most gospel music is made for christians and NOT for EVERYONE.   8O  I'm like DUH....but then he said that he wants to make music that both christians and non christians will be attracted to, but will DEFINITELY minister to non christians and draw them to christ.  He doesn't want to make GOSPEL music JUST for christians.  To me, I guess he had a point.  Also, there are many many gospel artists that have and still do gospel music with secular artist AND there are some that use bits and pieces of secular music in their style!!!!

[octopus]

there  you go Slick1

[DESQ]

Lilben,

Great insight.  There SHOULD be a difference between Christians and non-Christians.  Stay true to your convictions even when it appears that all your contemporaries are getting blessed (by taking these gigs)  and nothing seems to be working for you even though you are living what the Word plainly indicates.  Don't listen to anyone that tells you otherwise (even if that person happens to be a famous and nationally acclaimed "prophet/prophetess," "apostle," "pastor," "evangelist" or "teacher") and don't get frustrated.   God will elevate you in due time.  

Some people will justify their actions whatever they are and give what appears to be a valid excuse.  Some will even quote Scripture to back up their point that this is allowable.  I recall that Satan quoted Scripture to Christ when he was working to TEMPT Christ to do things that were outside of the will of God, His Father.  Anyways, Christ took all excuses to the cross.  We have watered down the Word so much that just about anything we do is OK and can be validated.  It used to be that we were willing to give up anything and everything to please the Lord.  Now it's what can I HOLD on to and still make it in.  There is a floor to our Christian walk, but there is no ceiling.  Meaning, there are some things that we all are required to give up and set aside, and there are some things that God only asks you to give up.  We keep moving the floor downward and call it the ceiling.  They respond:  God told you to give this up, he never said anything to me about giving this up.

For those that see nothing wrong with playing for secular artists, I ask you these series of questions:  If you were a cinematographer would you work for a porn production company?  If you created internet Websites, would you create a porn website if a potential client came to you and requested your services? (These things are legal by the way)  If you wanted to own a business, would you own a bar.  If you were a general contractor, woud you build a casino.  If you are a doctor, would you perform sex changes for people that want to change their gender?  If you're an actor, would you take the role of a drug dealer that cusses every other word, rapes women, and kills people in the film.  These are just jobs.  As you say, you gotta eat. Or maybe you're ministering to these people??  (BTW, I know that there's bound to be someone out there that will attempt to justify the above scenarios)

When you're in line with the Word everything you do makes sense.  It's when you're outside of the Word that you have to start making exceptions and finetuning technicalities.  Unfortunately, we'll be debating this point until Jesus returns, but at the time He'll set everything in order and we shall all finally know the answer to this question by where we end up---in New Jerusalem or the Lake of Fire.

God bless.

[octopus]

DESQ, there is a difference with what im talking about and you. im taking secular music as a learning resource, not just to listen to it for no cause. are you a drummer??? if you are, and you really, really, really dont listen to secular music and just listen to gospel drummers or whatever, then you are not using the gift God gave you to your potential.  you can just buy books and learn, or you can get a teacher.... but where did you think all that came from??? you think all of the sources your learning from did not listen to secular music. im not saying listen to it for pleasure, or just because. but, listen to it to expand from, to get ideas.. to see how it is really done. and about playing for secular artist, some people are called to do that, just like somebody posted erlier; they can influence other bandmembers or the people around him/her and be the light in the darkness. a person has to eat man, if your waiting on God to provide for you cause your not taking the gig, He might be waiting for you to take it so he can bless others and yourself.

Godbless.

[nessalynn77]

if you want some scripture then here goes: "... take only whats good from the bad..." secular music can affect you, but you have to be becareful, monitor your motives for why you listen to it... its a good learning source, sorry but its the truth.

Godbless

where is that scripture found?  I don't recall reading anything like that.  I do recall reading that friendship with the world is emnity against God.  It's a thin line, but I think a lot of today's gospel music industry is crossing it.  I guess it's important to be prayerful and be sure that the things we choose to involve ourselves with, are glorifying God.

[DESQ]

DESQ, there is a difference with what im talking about and you. im taking secular music as a learning resource, not just to listen to it for no cause. are you a drummer??? if you are, and you really, really, really dont listen to secular music and just listen to gospel drummers or whatever, then you are not using the gift God gave you to your potential. you can just buy books and learn, or you can get a teacher.... but where did you think all that came from??? you think all of the sources your learning from did not listen to secular music. im not saying listen to it for pleasure, or just because. but, listen to it to expand from, to get ideas.. to see how it is really done.  

Octopus,

If I don't listen to secular music I'm not using God's gift to it's fullest potential.  How so?  The answer to your question is that the musical knowledge came from God.  God has given every musician from Dennis Chambers to Joel Smith the talent to play the drums.  Just b/c a very talented secular artists fails to acknowledge God does not mean I have to.  Remember God created Satan and GAVE him the gift of music.  The devil has created nothing, but he will use us and our talent to take glory from God and bring it to himself.  As I mentioned in a much earlier post, this is a spiritual warfare.  Opinion and hyperbole is nothing when compared to the matchless Word of God.  Also, there's a difference between ANOINTED playing and TALENTED playing.  

BTW, I completely understand your point that we, as well-rounded players/musicians, should be learned in our craft.  I'm all for musical education and taking lessons.  But are you telling me that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is IAM and has created the UNIVERSE and everything we see and know NEEDS for us to listen to secular music to learn how to play.  Are you telling me, that I can not fast and seek God's face to get a novel musical idea or to "expand my musical horizons."  The problem is that we have limited God so much that we look to the world for all the answers.  There can and should be a Christian Berklee-type musical college where we seek God's face FIRST and then sit at our instruments.  The Lord wants to blow our minds, when will we let Him.    

and about playing for secular artist, some people are called to do that, just like somebody posted erlier; they can influence other bandmembers or the people around him/her and be the light in the darkness. a person has to eat man, if your waiting on God to provide for you cause your not taking the gig, He might be waiting for you to take it so he can bless others and yourself.

Godbless.

My point is that we all have various talents, but who gets the glory from your talent. Gifts come w/o repentance.... it's up to the individual how they utilize the talent God has placed in them.  When it comes to the music realm we compromise, period.  If you had a doctor in your congregation that performed abortions we could clearly see that as crossing the line.  Why do we need to associate ourselves and our talent with secular artists.  Nevertheless, we choose to use our talent to propogate a plainly anti-God, unholy, unrighteous message and then when we're called on the carpet we justify it by saying I'm ministering to those people.  "Oh, I lead the prayer before the show that the Lord's will be done" and then we sing ten songs in a row that give no glory to God.  Does this make sense to you?  Things that make you go hmmmm.

Yes, I know we quote the Scripture that Jesus ate with the sinners, but he did not compromise his message to propogate their behaviour, he ministered the Word to them.  Would you continue to give a drug addict drugs and say that you're ministering to them?  Pray for the secular artists, don't enable them to continue what they're doing.  

As I stated earlier we can discuss this ad nauseum.  Unfortunately, I believe that someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong.  God has the final say on that.

God bless and Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[octopus]

somehow what im trying to get across is being twisted. im not saying that annointing is better than talent, or that God cant give us more than secular artists can, or that if you dont listen to secular music you wont be a good musician.

i too believe that He is our main source for evrything that we need, everything thing that we can be, through music or anything else in this world. what im saying is that secular music can be used for good. why reject an oportunity to gain some valuable musical insight. i believe that a musician should be balanced, both connected spiritually and on top of thier game technically. im not talking about the spiritual right now, this is addressing the technical side of music. lilben said that people make an excuse for why they play or listen to secular music, and i gave my input on how you can use it for good. now tell me where i went wrong.


Godbless.

[YoungDrumma]

i beleive that christian music does not offer great music, wehn i mean music, i mean the quality. i listen to a lot of secular music, usher is my favorite but thats because one of the badest drummers plays with him. i bet if it was never for secular music, you would have never heard of many cats that are way better than those in the gospel scene... if you want some scripture then here goes: "... take only whats good from the bad..." secular music can affect you, but you have to be becareful, monitor your motives for why you listen to it... its a good learning source, sorry but its the truth.

Godbless

I hear you and all but put plain and simple...secular music is neither of nor from God...so why be involved with it at all, if you're a Christian?  Have you ever seen that DVD from EX-Ministries about Hip Hop?  Everything Craig Lewis spoke about is true.  People these days really don't understand the influence that music in general has on people.  Think about it like the dvd said...how many times did you tell yourself that "I'm gonna learn that Folger's coffee commercial theme song before you were singing along with it whenever you saw the commercial?  How many times did someone ask you a question about you ABC's when you were younger and you had to sing the song in your head to answer them?  Music, backed by the wrong spirit, is very dangerous.  And as far as that whole take only what's good from the bad thing...please elaborate on what's good about secular music?  I'm not trying to preach to you, folk, but somebody has to get this message out.

[lilben]

i beleive that christian music does not offer great music, wehn i mean music, i mean the quality. i listen to a lot of secular music, usher is my favorite but thats because one of the badest drummers plays with him. i bet if it was never for secular music, you would have never heard of many cats that are way better than those in the gospel scene... if you want some scripture then here goes: "... take only whats good from the bad..." secular music can affect you, but you have to be becareful, monitor your motives for why you listen to it... its a good learning source, sorry but its the truth.

Godbless

I hear you and all but put plain and simple...secular music is neither of nor from God...so why be involved with it at all, if you're a Christian?  Have you ever seen that DVD from EX-Ministries about Hip Hop?  Everything Craig Lewis spoke about is true.  People these days really don't understand the influence that music in general has on people.  Think about it like the dvd said...how many times did you tell yourself that "I'm gonna learn that Folger's coffee commercial theme song before you were singing along with it whenever you saw the commercial?  How many times did someone ask you a question about you ABC's when you were younger and you had to sing the song in your head to answer them?  Music, backed by the wrong spirit, is very dangerous.  And as far as that whole take only what's good from the bad thing...please elaborate on what's good about secular music?  I'm not trying to preach to you, folk, but somebody has to get this message out.

My dad bought all three dvd's last Saturday and they were off the chain!!!!!!!!!!

[Audiocr381ve]

I've been in various christian bands. A few of them decided that we should use "more metephoric" lyrics to encourage the listener to dig deeper and wonder  "whats so different about them." We thought that we could win them to Christ when they come and ask that question.

ITS A LIE AND A SCHEME OF THE ENEMY.
I couldn't play drums and use my God given gift to make money and really help build the kingdom of satan. That sounds super spiritual but guess what? IT IS. You are only accountable for what you know. And after reading this you'll know.

It's too late to water down lyrics to a point where christians and non-christians find the music appealing. The devil will put this lie in your face your whole life. He took what was good and perfect and made it PERVERSE. Music.
Don't think that cute metephors will help anybody. LIE.
Don't think playing with secular musicians is okay. Work is Work. Your GIFT IS YOUR GIFT. Yes the bible says you have to work to eat but don't help build the devils kingdom while doing it. Have musicians become soo spiritually dead to the point where it's a fairy tale to trust in God to provide for us.?

PEOPLE NEED JESUS. Picture this. They are burning in a house, will you shout cute lyrics "their is the way out over their, try and find it for yourself!"

OR will your music promote lyrics that is more like running in and pulling them out?

[Audiocr381ve]

Christian music should make the listener make a CHOICE.

Reject it. Or find out more. It should be controversial. You know you are on track when you hear the lies ALL THE TIME.

The devil is so obvious. He always comes with an encouraging word first. He uses someone that sounds soo good and soo "christian."

A prime example right here. This is an email that was sent to me a few days ago.

"You sent me a MySpace request (http://www.myspace.com/********) to add me to your friends list. I accepted the add request due to the fact that you are brothers (and sisters, apparently *smile*). I assumed that you were going to be just another forgettable music act, like the thousands of others I have run across.

Nope.

"Holy Holy" made me feel something that I rarely feel anymore, while "Night Day" and "The Way" only cemented that feeling.

The heart is there. More importantly, the spirit is there. Stick with it and don't let the world's slings and arrows stop you.

One thing I would encourage you to do is to write a few songs with some more metaphorical lyrics. There is no shame in God, yet some of the unsaved in the world need to be brought in via less obvious means and less obvious lyrics. The craft is there. The music is there. The lyrics is there. Flesh out the lyrics to the point where the message is there, but forces the listener to dig further... to ask you, "What is so different about you?" Plant that seed without turning the needy away.

Don't stop. Ever.

God bless you. I wish I had your musical talent, but The Creator gave me my skills in other areas.

Stay in touch.

-Sh*** ******* (Owner, Silver Ladder Artist Management and Manager of Drag Of Gravity

[Audiocr381ve]

I hate the enemy. Make sure you know Jesus and you continually talk to him before you make decisions. To many times do we make prayer a 1 way thing. BE QUIET, and listen to HIM speak. He's always gentle, he never rushes you.

If you feel uncomfortable or rushed, it's not God. The holy spirit is our COMFORTER. Jesus is the Prince of Peace.

I'm preaching to myself now! Sorry!

[FRANK1]

When does prophesy start costing 20 a DVD