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Author Topic: TRITONES!!!???  (Read 9062 times)

Offline Joey247

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TRITONES!!!???
« on: March 16, 2006, 10:19:40 AM »
Wassup LGM,

Sorry for asking this but I read in a recent post that tritones are formed by  major 3rd/ minor 7th combinations. I'm not much of a theory guy but would someone please explain in clear details what that means, it would be a lot of help.

I mean are those chords or just single notes ??? I truly didnt understand it. some help please, anyone, help a brotha out :-[

Thanks yall.
My Heart Follows Hard After Thee Oh Lord!!!!

Offline jeremyr

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2006, 01:54:37 PM »
a tri-tone  is  the 3rd note and the flatted 7th of the key/scale.

Here's an example.

Normally you would play the 1 chord like so.

L.H. / R.H.

C-G / C-E-G

here you have in the left hand the 1-5 and in the right you have the typical 1-3-5

Now if you want to play the tri-tone of those chord/key you look at the C scale

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

now you pull out the 3rd and teh flatted 7th

E-Bb

This gives you the tri-tone voicing in your left hand. 

Now go and grabe the 2-5-1 out of the right key/scale for the right hand.

D-G-C

Now when you put these together you have

L.H. / R.H.
E-Bb / D-G-C

sounds a bit more contemporrary and you can replace your 1 chord with that whever the song permits.


If someone disagress please feel free to digress.
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Offline Joey247

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2006, 12:35:07 AM »
Thanks a mill J,

That's quite simple to understand, Thanks for shedding some light on that, appreciate it, Thanks.
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rjthakid

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2006, 10:37:01 AM »
On another note, when doing progressions, you can play a notes "Tritone Alternate"

I'll use the same Tritone that Jeremyr used:

E - Bb

Playing in C, a basic  3-6-2 progression would be:

E/E-G-B

A/A-C-E

D/D-F-A

BUT you can keep the E as the bass for your left hand and substitute the Right Hand Chord for the "Tritone Alternate" of E, which is Bb:

E/ Bb-D-F  (E7 b9 b5)

A/A-C-E

D/D-F-A

It has a nice sound to it.

Yet another use for the Awesome TRITONE   :)

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2006, 08:38:56 AM »
A tritone is just two notes seperated by 3 whole steps. It doesn't necessarily have to be the 3 and b7.

Sometimes, you can use a tritone interval to "phatten" a chord, adding disonance and tension.

"Grateful" - Hezekiah Walker

Ab-Eb-Ab \ Eb-Ab-C
Bb-E \ Bb-Eb-Bb (Tritone with Bb and E adds tension)
C-F#-Bb \ Eb-Ab-C (Tritone with C and F# adds more tension)
Db-F-Ab-Bb \ C-Eb (release tension)


2-5 walkup

Bb-G \ E-Ab-Bb-Db (Tension by adding the 13th, G,  in the left hand)
C-F#-Bb \ Eb-Ab-C  (Tritone tension C and F#)
Db-E-Ab-Bb \ E-Ab-Bb-Db
Eb-G-Bb-C \ Eb-G-Bb-Eb


Anyway, I know this may be a little bit too much to take in at one time, but I just wanted to point out that a tritone is not necessarily ALWAYS a 3rd and a b7.

Offline diverse379

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 09:29:31 AM »
Thank you for that B3 because I see people mislabel what a tritone is all the time the tritone is just an interval of an augmented 4th if you choose to play the two notes of that interval together whether it be as a b7 and 3rd or whether you want to use it as a substitute in you progression

or like you said you can play the interval under a chord and it does not necessarily have to be the b7 and 3

To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline apex

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2006, 06:15:58 PM »
I understand what a tritone is and all that...but how do you deside what chord you are gonna play in your right hand with the tritone...and then if you are playing on the organ how do you decide what note in the bass to use...

It seemed alot more simple when you just say it is the 3rd a minor 7th of the key...but with that out the window....how do you decide when to use what tritone and what bass note to use.
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Offline diverse379

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2006, 06:45:49 PM »
ok to start with
and that is all this is a start

if you play a major chord in your right hand play the third of that chord in your left and then add the b7th which is a whole step below the root of your chord

so if you play a c major

you play the third whcih is E and the b7th which is the Bb

you can continue this with every chord that way you will have the basicks of how to use tritones in their most basic function.

This way you are simply playing seventh chords no etra colors just basic 7th chords but this is your foundation

if you want to hear extra colors but  try playing a chord and moving different tritones under them like

play a cmajor triad with the E and Bb and move the left hand down in half steps while the right hand moves up in half steps you will notice different kinds of colors as you begin to get aquainted with these tonal colors you sill find new ways to use them but for now just experivment with them after you really understand the most basic way first

Your foot will play the root or the 3rd or the 5th depending on where you are in the song
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline Joey247

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 12:33:14 AM »
A'ight fellas,

So what I gather from what yall saying is, the tritone primarily depends on the Major 3rd / Minor 7th on the left hand but on the right hand I can basically slip in any chord as long as it sound right.

Would I be accurate in making that assumption, let me know, Thanks.

And by the way, when do I decide when and where to use a tritone substitution, or is that a matter of creativity and having a good ear? Theoretically, when am I suppoesd to use it, coz for example, I seen Jamaal Hartwell do this on the song "Praise is what I do"

In the key of Eb, at the "I vow to worship" part, he did

LH/RH    lyrics

Eb/ G-Bb-Eb         I
F/Ab-C-F              vow
G/Bb-Eb-G           to
AbEbAb/Bb-C-Eb-Gworship

                                    whether
G/G-B                  ha-
A/G-C                  ppy
B/G-D                  or
C/G-Bb-C-Eb         sad


Then Here Comes The Tritone

C#G/C-E-G-C         I
AbEb/G-Bb-C-Eb     Praise you



Now I've seen the same chord (C-E-G-C) used with an E-Bb left hand tritone, so does the left hand determine the tritone, while the right hand can basically slip in any chord as long as it sound right, or how did Jamaal decide to use that paticular tritone in that paticular part, what's the criteria you use to know where to place a tritone.

Thanks LGM,

T-Block, out there, Anyone out there, anyone??





My Heart Follows Hard After Thee Oh Lord!!!!

Offline Joey247

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 04:12:42 AM »
Hey LGM,

I was shopping around and I found somethin' on the Hearandplay.com site check this out


   Using tritones
a.   What is a tritone?
i.      Consist of two notes
ii.      Diminished fifth intervals /  Augmented fourth intervals
iii.      Basically, the distance between the keynote and a flatted fifth
iv.      They split an octave two tritones = one octave
1.      Example: C to Gb   and Gb to C (both tritones)
v.      Three whole tones (C to D = 1)    (D to E=another) (E to Gb = last whole tone) 3 whole tones = TRI-tone
b.   Another way to look at tritones
i.      The 4 and 7 of any key
1.      Example: F + B  is a tritone
ii.      The 3 and b7 of any key
1.      Example: E + Bb is a tritone

c.   There are six unique tritones
i.      C Gb   / Gb  C
ii.      Db G    / G Db
iii.      D Ab / Ab D
iv.      Eb A / A Eb
v.      E Bb / Bb E
vi.      F B / B F

d.   Tritones can substitute for Dom7 chords
i.      Example: Since a C7 is C+E+G+Bb, one can play E+Bb (tritone) to produce a very similar sound.
1.      Those same 1-5-b7 left hand arrangements can be replaced with tritones to create a more spicy sound:

a.      C maj: C G Bb = Bb E or E Bb
b.      F maj: F C Eb =  Eb A or A Eb
c.       Bb maj: Bb F Ab = Ab D or D Ab
d.      Eb maj: Eb Bb Db = Db G or G Db
e.      Ab maj: Ab Eb Gb = Gb C or C Gb
f.        Db maj: Db Ab B = F B or B F

g.      Gb maj: Gb Db E (or Fb) = E Bb or Bb E
h.      B maj: B F# A = A Eb or Eb A
i.        E maj: E B D = D Ab or Ab D
j.        A maj: A E G = G Db or Db G
k.      D maj: D A C = C Gb or Gb C
l.        G maj: G D F = F B or B F
e.   Other uses for tritones
i.      Use tritones in chord progressions

1.      If youre playing a 7-3-6 progression, instead of playing G to C to F on your bass for example (if it were a 7-3-6 in the key of Ab major), youd substitute those notes for tritones.
a.      Substitute the bass G for  F B tritone
b.      Substitute the bass C for E Bb tritone
c.       Substitute the bass F for Eb A tritone
i.      SECRET: When a chord progression is moving in fourths (like most progressions do), the tritones for each of the bass notes will be RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. See how close F B and E Bb are from each other.

2.      If youre playing a 2-5-1 progression, try replacing the regular bass note for each chord with its corresponding tritone (from the same list above).



It pretty much says what yall were saying all along, so thanks fellas. One
My Heart Follows Hard After Thee Oh Lord!!!!

Offline lauenceholley

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2006, 11:42:45 AM »
JOEY247, what song do those I Vow to Worship come from ? Can you post the rest of those chords to that song, that was nice progression, thanks.

Offline apex

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2006, 01:43:58 PM »
I can't wait to get home from work and see what that c#-g tritone sounds like over that c chord on praise is what I do. I bet its gonna be phat....I wis someone would answer his question about how do u decide to use wut tritone..this guy used the eb tritone with a c chord...where'd he get that from???
I'm Blessed To Be A Blessing!!!!!!!!!!

Offline diverse379

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2006, 04:39:11 PM »
Apex I think I did Answer the question about which tritone to use over which chord but you are looking for is a quick rule that you can just start to apply right away

what i presented was a way for you to explore the keybouard to get your own sound

you will find that you can play any major triad over any other tritone and there will be some quality that will sound good going somewere else in other words no matter what combination you decided to use you can take that combination somehwere to resolve the sound

so to get started play a E Bb tritone in the left hand and move it first in halfsteps
 down

while you play a c triad and you move it chromaticlly upward

then move the tritone down in whole steps while the right hand moves up chromatically

then move the right hand up in wholle steps while the left hand moves down in whole steps


what this will begin to do is teach you that every combination can be used the question is now how you will use them but once you get used to how they look and feel you will start to find your own way to play them
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline Joey247

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Re: TRITONES!!!???
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2006, 04:31:50 AM »
JOEY247, what song do those I Vow to Worship come from ? Can you post the rest of those chords to that song, that was nice progression, thanks.


Hey lauenceholley,

I'm posting the chords you wanted, check them out under the topic "Praise is what I do"

Hope you enjoy. Thanks

LGM feel free to extra phatten it, thanx.

It has some tritones too, Thanks diverse379. Let me know what you think.
My Heart Follows Hard After Thee Oh Lord!!!!
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