Chord progressions

[booseb]

how do you dteremine a chord progression do you use the bass note or the chord?

[sjonathan02]

how do you dteremine a chord progression do you use the bass note or the chord?

I use the bass note. That's me, though.

[bluesky81214]

it is not always wise to use the bass not because the chord could be in an inversion, which essentially means that the 3rd 5th or sometimes 7th could be in the bass. it is really rare to see 9ths and 11ths in the bass because usually they are either passing tones or suspensions which take place above the bass. when analyzing a chord progression make sure you take into consideration what key you are in. always ask yourself, where is the tonal center? where is the home base (tonically speaking). usually this is very easy unless you tonicize the dominant or modulate to a different key. if you know and understand the concept of key signatures it should be easy to determine what key you are in, because your key (minor or major) is determined by the number of flats or sharp. word?

peace

[T-Block]

The bass notes tell you what progression you are playing.  Chords are completely different and have nothing to do with naming progressions.

[RONNIEJR99]

OKAY, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN TOLD TO FOLLOW THE BASS NOTES. HOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROGRESSION? IS IT ALWAYS GOING TO BE IN A 1-4-5 OR 2-5-1 OR WILL IT BE JUST NOTES THAT SOUND GOOD TOGETHER(IF I'M MAKIN ANY SENSE ) ???

[T-Block]

The progressions name will always be in number format cuz they are scale degrees.  It doesn't have to always be 7-3-6 or 2-5-1, those are just the most common progressions used in music.  Just write out whatever the bass notes are for a song, then translate them to numbers.  I guarantee you though that 7-3-6, 2-5-1, 4-5-1 will be present in some form or fashion, that's why I posted those Progression Practice posts cuz you will run into them everywhere you go.  It's better to learn a few progressions and play a 100 songs than to just learn 100 songs, cuz then you will be stuck using only the chords for each song.  With progressions, you play things from one song and make a whole other song out of it.

To get chords, you have to do a little experimenting.  Once you find a chords that fit with the bass notes, either write them down or immediately start playing them in all keys so you can remember what chord goes with what bass note. 

The goal of progressions is to be able to play the bass notes and instinctively play the right chord that goes with it.  That comes from practicing what you already came up with in every key.

[booseb]

thanks everyone for all your help.

[play4zero]

Sorry, just walked in the door and everything I seem to be doing is wrong.  Where can I find the Progression Practice posts.  i did a search, but nothing came up.  Thank you.

[Dtuned]

The progressions name will always be in number format cuz they are scale degrees.  It doesn't have to always be 7-3-6 or 2-5-1, those are just the most common progressions used in music.  Just write out whatever the bass notes are for a song, then translate them to numbers.  I guarantee you though that 7-3-6, 2-5-1, 4-5-1 will be present in some form or fashion, that's why I posted those Progression Practice posts cuz you will run into them everywhere you go.  It's better to learn a few progressions and play a 100 songs than to just learn 100 songs, cuz then you will be stuck using only the chords for each song.  With progressions, you play things from one song and make a whole other song out of it.

Tblock, can you please expound on this, im confused a little with chord numbering is this the nashville tabs? like 2-5-1 being translated to D-G-C ?

can you explain, im a bassist trying to grow in theory and understanding.
blessings,
rob

[T-Block]

Sorry, just walked in the door and everything I seem to be doing is wrong.  Where can I find the Progression Practice posts.  i did a search, but nothing came up.  Thank you.

Basic Progressions:  http://www.musicianslearningcenter.com/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=24

More Advanced Progressions:  http://www.musicianslearningcenter.com/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=21

Progression Practice (7-3-6-2-5-1):  http://www.musicianslearningcenter.com/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=19

Tblock, can you please expound on this, im confused a little with chord numbering is this the nashville tabs? like 2-5-1 being translated to D-G-C ?

can you explain, im a bassist trying to grow in theory and understanding.
blessings,
rob

The numbers mean scale degrees of the major scale of the key you are in.  So, if you got a 2-5-1 progression and you in the key of C, then the correct notes are D-G-C.  Remember that progression names only give you the LH bass notes to play, not the chords.  The chords you play with each bass note is up to you.  If you have no idea what chord to play, start with the chords that are built off each scale degree.  From there you can experiment and come up with chords of your own.

[play4zero]

Thank you, much appreciated.  For some reason I have a problem figuring out where I'm at on some of the songs, but knowledge is everything.

[dieogo]

The numbers mean scale degrees of the major scale of the key you are in.  So, if you got a 2-5-1 progression and you in the key of C, then the correct notes are D-G-C.  Remember that progression names only give you the LH bass notes to play, not the chords.  The chords you play with each bass note is up to you.  If you have no idea what chord to play, start with the chords that are built off each scale degree.  From there you can experiment and come up with chords of your own

To GOD be the Glory! I play the lead guitar I understand the progression gives the bass notes. So when you say start with the chords that are built off each scale degree of the progression, do I use the same progession (or scale degree as the bass progression? example like the above is 2 5 1 do I start with the D note and go 2 5 1 to develop my first chord then go to the G note and do 2 51 for my second chord then go to my third chord, or do I use the 1 3 5? I hope I didn't confuse you.  ha..ha. Thanks for the explanation.......dieogo

[Docdb04]

To GOD be the Glory! I play the lead guitar I understand the progression gives the bass notes. So when you say start with the chords that are built off each scale degree of the progression, do I use the same progession (or scale degree as the bass progression? example like the above is 2 5 1 do I start with the D note and go 2 5 1 to develop my first chord then go to the G note and do 2 51 for my second chord then go to my third chord, or do I use the 1 3 5? I hope I didn't confuse you.  ha..ha. Thanks for the explanation.......dieogo

I believe I understand what you are saying.  2-5-1 and 7-3-6 are not to build chords. It is just to name the type of progression your playing.  Look at it like this. Every note within a scale has a number (degree).  It looks like this:

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-1

When it is said 2-5-1 it really means D(major/minor)-Gmaj-Cmaj.    When it is said 7-3-6 it really means Bdim-Emaj-Amin.  The numbers are to label them so you could recognize them easier.  It is just the name of the progression.

Be Blessed and Be the Blessing

[cas10a]

The bass notes tell you what progression you are playing.  Chords are completely different and have nothing to do with naming progressions.

T-Block, I agree with you and this is true in most cases, but what if you use a Tritone Substitutions.
In the Tritone Sub Ex., the Bass would be D, Db, C.  In this case, you could not tell just from the bass note that it was 2-5-1, however If you think about the chords Dm7, D7, CM you could notice that the Dbdom7 or Db7 is a Tritone substitute for G7 and it becomes clear.  But for the most part you are correct and I usually use the Bass-line myself to determine the progression.
 
See Example:
Normal 2-5-1 ascending to C...Dm7-G7-CMaj
D/DFAC
G/GBDF
C/CEG

Tritone Sub on 5...2-5-1...Dm7-Db7-CMaj...Walking Bass backward from D to C almost as if we are passing on the the G.
D/DFAC
Db/DbFAbB (Tritone Sub)
C/CEG

 

[T-Block]

Even if you are using a substitution, the bass note still tells you what kind of progression it is.  If you say you are playing a 2-5-1 progression in C, then you better have a D-G-C for your bass notes.  Anything other than that is not a true 2-5-1 in C, it is a different progression altogether that can be used in place of the normal 2-5-1.  In your case for the tri-tone sub., you are playing a 2-b2-1 progression, based on your bass notes.  You just have to keep in mind that this progression can replace 2-5-1 and still sound good, but never mistake it for an actual 2-5-1 cuz that would be incorrect.  You get what I'm saying?

[T-Block]

To GOD be the Glory! I play the lead guitar I understand the progression gives the bass notes. So when you say start with the chords that are built off each scale degree of the progression, do I use the same progession (or scale degree as the bass progression? example like the above is 2 5 1 do I start with the D note and go 2 5 1 to develop my first chord then go to the G note and do 2 51 for my second chord then go to my third chord, or do I use the 1 3 5? I hope I didn't confuse you.  ha..ha. Thanks for the explanation.......dieogo

Yes, for each bass note, develop a chord then move to the next one until you have a string of chords that sound great being played together to complete the progression.

When it is said 2-5-1 it really means D(major/minor)-Gmaj-Cmaj.    When it is said 7-3-6 it really means Bdim-Emaj-Amin.  The numbers are to label them so you could recognize them easier.  It is just the name of the progression.

Be careful here, cuz like I said ealier the progressions name tells u absolutely nothing about RH chords, it only tells the bass notes.  You can play any chord that you desire to play, just as long as it makes sense and sound good.  But, if you have no idea what to play, start with the chords built off each scale degree, then experiment with those chords (add, subtact notes) until you settle on a chord u want to use.

[cas10a]

Even if you are using a substitution, the bass note still tells you what kind of progression it is.  If you say you are playing a 2-5-1 progression in C, then you better have a D-G-C for your bass notes.  Anything other than that is not a true 2-5-1 in C, it is a different progression altogether that can be used in place of the normal 2-5-1.  In your case for the tri-tone sub., you are playing a 2-b2-1 progression, based on your bass notes.  You just have to keep in mind that this progression can replace 2-5-1 and still sound good, but never mistake it for an actual 2-5-1 cuz that would be incorrect.  You get what I'm saying?

T-Block,

I don't want to say you are wrong on this one, but you are this time , the tritone sub bass will go 2-2b-1 and it is still 2-5-1 but the only way to tell that is by the chords.  I agree with you on following the bass but look into the tritone subs a little more.  I'll post a better example later.

[cas10a]

After reading what you said again, I see what you are saying; It is not a true 2-5-1, because of the Sub.  I'm not saying it is a true 2-5-1, but consider this, your playing with a bass player, he/she is watching while you sub with a Db7 chord, they do not see the normal 2-5-1, they see exactly what you are playing for the bass 2-2b-1, however it is the same progression, just with a substitution chord.  They can play either the Db or the G in the bass and they will both fit.  All I'm saying is that you may not always see the 2-5-1 just by looking at the bass-line. Try the example with both the Db or the G in bass, it will sound good either way, the bass is interchangeable as well as the chords, but the only way to recognize totally what is being done with the sub is to know the tritone chord sub.

[cas10a]

To take this a step further, I read a post in the guitar room about Keyboard players and Bass players on sort of a misconnect on playing together.  This is sometimes why keyboard players should lay off the bass line when you have a bass player.  There is no need to play a bass line if you have a bass player, especially if you have not communicated on where you are both going with bass and chords, as a pianist sometimes we need to lay off the bass.  I had a teacher, that once said if you're not sure just lay out, nothing wrong with it, just let the spirit flow and it will all work itself out.  Bass and Chords do work together, all chords do not fit with every bass line.  They are not separate, they work hand and hand.  No disrespect T-Block, you are a Blessing, your post are all that and I've learned alot from them.  Somethings I didn't take the time to learn until you pushed me too. God Bless T. and All!!

[sjonathan02]

How about we leave the having-a-Bass-player out of the discussion. Because there ARE a lot of folks who don't have a Bass player. 



BTW, I can see both points of view.