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Author Topic: TRITONES  (Read 9625 times)

Offline MUNCHY

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TRITONES
« on: September 07, 2006, 03:48:27 PM »
Okay everyone....  I have a question that is probably a repeat question so please bear with me.

I have the concept of how to create a tri-tone (counting 3 tones from a key or note)  I understand semi-tones.  Heck, I even know the names of most of the chords you all put on here (thank God)

But here is my dilemma....  is there a formula or criteria for what chord to use in the right hand for your tri-tones.  Allow me to explica....

take this tri-tone (chord) for instance:

Db G/ B Eb G

This is a common tri-tone used as "pre-cursor" before playing a C Major 7th chord.  I understand that the tri-tone in my left hand is created because three tones above the "Db" is the "G".  I am good on that end. 

Now, what is the criteria or formula or whatever playing the chord in my right hand.   ?/? ?/? ?/?
Why is that particular chord in the right played to create the tri-tone chord?  How was that done?  Am i just using my ear to create this chord or create this sound?  Is the key that I am playing in determine this chord, is there a formula?

Is this making sense?  If not, please hit me back and I can try to explain it again.

Looking for your help on this LGM fam...  holla at your boy


PS

I love the new features on the site.... it has been a minute since I have been on.

Offline ddw4e

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2006, 04:04:48 PM »
Okay everyone....  I have a question that is probably a repeat question so please bear with me.

I have the concept of how to create a tri-tone (counting 3 tones from a key or note)  I understand semi-tones.  Heck, I even know the names of most of the chords you all put on here (thank God)

But here is my dilemma....  is there a formula or criteria for what chord to use in the right hand for your tri-tones.  Allow me to explica....

take this tri-tone (chord) for instance:

Db G/ B Eb G

This is a common tri-tone used as "pre-cursor" before playing a C Major 7th chord.  I understand that the tri-tone in my left hand is created because three tones above the "Db" is the "G".  I am good on that end. 

Now, what is the criteria or formula or whatever playing the chord in my right hand.   ?/? ?/? ?/?
Why is that particular chord in the right played to create the tri-tone chord?  How was that done?  Am i just using my ear to create this chord or create this sound?  Is the key that I am playing in determine this chord, is there a formula?

Is this making sense?  If not, please hit me back and I can try to explain it again.

Looking for your help on this LGM fam...  holla at your boy


PS

I love the new features on the site.... it has been a minute since I have been on.

Yeah LOL! It's been asked but it's all good..

Look at just the tritone Db G...
One way to figure it out what chord to play in the right hand is this (in a question)...

Db is the dom7th of what key?? Eb..So you can play Db G or G Db / Eb major chord..ask that question agein...
G is the dom7th of what key?? A..So you can play Db G or G Db / A major chord..

Now look at the to right hand chords...Eb and A...guess what? They are tri-tones as well

Eb is the dom7th of what key?? F..So you can play Eb A or A Eb / F major chord..ask that question agein...
A is the dom7th of what key?? B..So you can play Eb A or A Eb / B major chord..

So here's a recap with some additional info.

Tritones are very important, especially if you have a bass player in your band. Your can utilize your left hand with tritones and continue to play chords or scale runs with your right hand.

C bass goes with E + Bb
Db bass goes with F + B
D bass goes with Gb + C
Eb bass goes with G + Db
E bass goes with Ab + D
F bass goes with A + Eb
Gb bass goes with Bb + E
G bass goes with B + F
Ab bass goes with C + Gb
A bass goes with Db + G
Bb bass goes with D + Ab
B bass goes with Eb + A
C bass goes with E + Bb
Db bass goes with F + B

RULE #1: Tritones are symmetric.

That means that E+Bb can also be played as Bb+E.

… or Gb + C can be played as C + Gb.

RULE #2: Since there are really only 6 unique tritones, each tritone
shares TWO bass notes.

For example, E+Bb / or Bb + E is used both with a “C” or “Gb” bass.

… or D + Ab / or Ab + D is used both with a “Bb” or “E” bass.

Practice these tritones with your left hand and add some chords with your right. Practice does make perfect.
MERCY EN!!

Offline dyronjackson

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2006, 05:23:56 PM »
ddw4e if you are an educator, I would guess that you teach math. Your tritone post simply broken down to it's lowest term. THIS IS GREAT. I know MUNCHY can appreciate the post because it answered some questions I had brewing about tritones
Be Blessed

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2006, 09:59:21 PM »
Yeah LOL! It's been asked but it's all good..

Look at just the tritone Db G...
One way to figure it out what chord to play in the right hand is this (in a question)...

Db is the dom7th of what key?? Eb..So you can play Db G or G Db / Eb major chord..ask that question agein...
G is the dom7th of what key?? A..So you can play Db G or G Db / A major chord..

Now look at the to right hand chords...Eb and A...guess what? They are tri-tones as well

Eb is the dom7th of what key?? F..So you can play Eb A or A Eb / F major chord..ask that question agein...
A is the dom7th of what key?? B..So you can play Eb A or A Eb / B major chord..

So here's a recap with some additional info.

Tritones are very important, especially if you have a bass player in your band. Your can utilize your left hand with tritones and continue to play chords or scale runs with your right hand.

C bass goes with E + Bb
Db bass goes with F + B
D bass goes with Gb + C
Eb bass goes with G + Db
E bass goes with Ab + D
F bass goes with A + Eb
Gb bass goes with Bb + E
G bass goes with B + F
Ab bass goes with C + Gb
A bass goes with Db + G
Bb bass goes with D + Ab
B bass goes with Eb + A
C bass goes with E + Bb
Db bass goes with F + B

RULE #1: Tritones are symmetric.

That means that E+Bb can also be played as Bb+E.

… or Gb + C can be played as C + Gb.

RULE #2: Since there are really only 6 unique tritones, each tritone
shares TWO bass notes.

For example, E+Bb / or Bb + E is used both with a “C” or “Gb” bass.

… or D + Ab / or Ab + D is used both with a “Bb” or “E” bass.

Practice these tritones with your left hand and add some chords with your right. Practice does make perfect.




Hey DD, you think I can add this to your already awesome post?


What about using the Major or minor 2 in the right hand of the chords you just mentioned to resolve, in this case, to the C Maj 7.


For example, instead of this:


Db G/ Eb G Bb   why not this -----> Db G/ F A C (Major 2 of Eb) or this   Db G/ F Ab C (minor 2 of Eb)   


And, you could do the same thing with the Maj or min 2 of A


Db G/ B D# F# (Major 2 of A) -------->   Db G/ B D F# (minor 2 of A)


Let me know what you think or if I have it wrong.  Hey, I'm trying here.  :D
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Offline ddw4e

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2006, 11:39:09 PM »
Exactly! Let me quiz you on one particular chord...

Db G/ F A C  (Major 2 of Eb) or as a organ chord Eb / Db G / F A C

That chord right there...what type of chord is that?
MERCY EN!!

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2006, 12:27:04 AM »
Quote from: MUNCHY
Why is that particular chord in the right played to create the tri-tone chord?  How was that done?

I'm not going to touch DD's quiz, but I'll go to your second question.

This particular chord is a rootless chord, but you can still apply root-based theory to it.

In this case, I'm talking about the rule that states you can approach a chord by playing a chord a half-step above or below. If you keep this chord rootless, it's (Db is) a half-step above C. If you combine the two hands, you'll see the actual chord you're playing more clearly. Db-G-B-Eb (Db9 b5 no 3) This chord can approach a minor or major chord because the third is missing which would give it a different sound. Played this way, the chord sounds more open.
On the other hand, you can put the root back and examine it. In this case, if you follow the half-step rule, the root note would be B, so your chord would be B-Db-G \ B(or Bb)-Eb-G. This chord would be named "B #5 add 9". As you can see, the root note was in your right hand all the time. It just depends on how you look at what you're playing. Generally, when we think root, we want that note to be on the bottom, but it's not ALWAYS the case.

Offline iweaver

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2006, 03:28:04 AM »
How about an Eb13thb5 chord? Is that what you are looking for DD?
IW

Offline ddw4e

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2006, 03:31:43 AM »
How about an Eb13thb5 chord? Is that what you are looking for DD?
IW

I was thinking that chord name too, but the type of chord it is, not the name of it LOL!  :D
MERCY EN!!

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2006, 06:31:08 AM »
I was going to go with IWEAVER's answer. But, if that isn't it, I'm not sure what you mean.


Are you asking if it's Major, minor, Dominant or diminished?



 ?/?
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Offline MUNCHY

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2006, 07:37:43 AM »
YEAH YEAH YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

LGM, you all have hooked a brother up....

I think I will change my name on here to Tri-tone guru....   ;)     (just playin')

Thank you again

Offline iweaver

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2006, 07:47:08 AM »
How about a "dissonant" chord? "atonal"? "polytonal cluster"? I am looking up my theory books now.
IW

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 09:20:57 AM »
How about a "dissonant" chord? "atonal"? "polytonal cluster"? I am looking up my theory books now.
IW


Man, what theory books do YOU have?  ?/? :D
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Offline ddw4e

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2006, 10:52:01 AM »
I was going to go with IWEAVER's answer. But, if that isn't it, I'm not sure what you mean.


Are you asking if it's Major, minor, Dominant or diminished?



 ?/?

I tell ya LOL!! Superimposed... :D :D
MERCY EN!!

Offline iweaver

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2006, 12:55:04 PM »
I don't know DD. I think you owe us a complimentary video for that answer.
IW

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2006, 01:00:59 PM »
I tell ya LOL!! Superimposed... :D :D



Yea, I NEVER would've gotten that.
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Offline ddw4e

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2006, 01:26:01 PM »
I don't know DD. I think you owe us a complimentary video for that answer.
IW

Look at it this way...

put Eb in the LH

Eb G Db / F A C ....superimposed

SUPERIMPOSED CHORDS IS ONE CHORD ON TOP OF ANOTHER A WHOLE STEP AWAY...WITH THE ROOT CHORD IN THE LEFT HAND

Now is this (Db G/ F A C) still superimposed? I would probably say yes although there's no Eb in the left hand...I considered it rootless (on the organ it be a complete rooted superimposed chord cause I put Eb on the bass)..but that's how I look at it..
MERCY EN!!

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2006, 02:49:23 PM »

Look at it this way...

put Eb in the LH

Eb G Db / F A C ....superimposed

SUPERIMPOSED CHORDS IS ONE CHORD ON TOP OF ANOTHER A WHOLE STEP AWAY...WITH THE ROOT CHORD IN THE LEFT HAND

Now is this (Db G/ F A C) still superimposed? I would probably say yes although there's no Eb in the left hand...I considered it rootless (on the organ it be a complete rooted superimposed chord cause I put Eb on the bass)..but that's how I look at it..



You learn something new everyday. Thanks, DD  :D
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Offline ddw4e

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2006, 03:04:46 PM »
LOL!! No problem! it's funny you do stuff and don't really know what you doing at times...it happens to me all the time! :D
MERCY EN!!

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2006, 03:12:09 PM »
LOL!! No problem! it's funny you do stuff and don't really know what you doing at times...it happens to me all the time! :D



Hey DD, do you know the song "Miracles" by Donald Lawrence off of his "I speak Life" CD?


Now, there's a song with tons of tri-tones and stuff. I'm really trying to use it as a study tool, but I can't get the chords; especially when the song transitions. anyway, think you can help?
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Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: TRITONES
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2006, 02:01:19 AM »
HOW YOU GONNA COME AND HIJACK?!

SHEESH! THE NERVE OF PEOPLE!

;)
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