QOTW(12/2-12/8): Bringing in a musician

[vtguy84]

If a pastor hires an outside musician to run the music department, should he make it a requirement that this musician be a member of the church¿

[jlc4703]

No.

While it is appropriate for the church to set standards (that the hired musician's life style be appropriate and in agreement with the doctrinal statement of the local church), a person's membership in a local church should be between that person and God.

(Of course, the real question is: "is the person's name written in the book of life?" not "is the person a member of ----------- local church." God has not chosen to pre-publish copies of the book of life, and they are not for sale at local bookstores or available at local libraries.)

Jim

[sjonathan02]

The problem is loyalty to that church, to me. I don't think churches should get into the habit of hiring someone outside of the church, in the first place. But, in the case where it just can't be helped, I'd say no; with the caveat that the person should, at least, be saved and trying to live a life pleasing and acceptable to God.

[LaylaMonroe]

I think it should depend on the pastor's vision for that church.  Some churches don't allow people to join the church if they haven't already received salvation and been water-baptized.  Likewise, some don't hire staff who aren't saved or who aren't members of the church.

As for whether the hired staff should be members, I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another.  It just depends on what the pastor wants, I think.

[momuzik]

If a pastor hires an outside musician to run the music department, should he make it a requirement that this musician be a member of the church¿

To hire a musician is one thing, but to hire someone into a position of authortity is another. That person would need to be in a position to be held accountable and should fall under some sort of "chain of command".
Besides, you would think that if he/ she were a member, that would show more of a commitment or loyalty; otherwise he/she just sounds like a hireling.

[Formuzik]

I am one who believes that all leadership be in covenant with the church.  My philosophy is that all musicians should be a part of the local church.  My whole belief is this is based on the principle of equipping saints for ministry.  If we hire out all the musicians, singers, and others in the music ministry, when are we training and developing new skills and talents?  I have seen how this system of hiring works, and most often a musician who is hired brings an entourage of musicians with him or her only to have all of them leave when he/she goes to a new position.  The local church is then left starting over trying to find a whole new band.  This system is extremely flawed in my opinion.  I always try to work with who is in the church and build their skill level through practice and mentorship.

Pastor Starkovich

[LaylaMonroe]

Musicians can only bring on their entourage if the church hires the entourage.

AND, while I'm aware that many church musicians are flighty, my experience has shown that if churches take their time to make sound hiring decisions AND treat their employees well, they don't have to worry about turnover, lack of commitment, or any other issues some churches have with hired musicians/MOMs.

[jonesl78]

I am one who believes that all leadership be in covenant with the church.  My philosophy is that all musicians should be a part of the local church.  My whole belief is this is based on the principle of equipping saints for ministry.  If we hire out all the musicians, singers, and others in the music ministry, when are we training and developing new skills and talents?  I have seen how this system of hiring works, and most often a musician who is hired brings an entourage of musicians with him or her only to have all of them leave when he/she goes to a new position.  The local church is then left starting over trying to find a whole new band.  This system is extremely flawed in my opinion.  I always try to work with who is in the church and build their skill level through practice and mentorship.

Pastor Starkovich

Good stuff

[momuzik]

From my personal experience, most MOM's I've seen were all long time members.

[vtguy84]

I feel as long as the stipulations are made in advanced, it is ok to make them a member.  Otherwise, it doesn't make sense and would be a little wrong to hire somebody and later inform them they must be 'connected' to the ministry.

[themidiroom]

At my church, they did not require me to be a member.  I would think that if a church requires you to be a member, you will have musicians joining the church just so they can get the job.  When something better comes along, they will leave.

[LaylaMonroe]

At my church, they did not require me to be a member.  I would think that if a church requires you to be a member, you will have musicians joining the church just so they can get the job.  When something better comes along, they will leave.

Exxxxxxxactly.

My ex is a P&W leader, and one church we went to required church membership for all employees, so my ex joined.  I didn't, because I wasn't working there, and I wanted to get to know the church a little better.  We weren't there for 3 months before realizing it wasn't working out.  We left.  A membership form does not ensure commitment or loyalty.  If you MUST complete the form in order to get the job, many people will do just that... and leave when it's time to leave... 

[Formuzik]

I don't serve in ministry without my wife, so for us, I have only taken positions when she felt in agreement with the ministry as well.

Pastor Starkovich

[LaylaMonroe]

I don't serve in ministry without my wife, so for us, I have only taken positions when she felt in agreement with the ministry as well.

Pastor Starkovich

With all due respect Pastor, that's irrelevant.  You and your wife could both join a ministry (if you weren't pastoring, I mean), so that one of you could be in the church's employ.  Then, if it doesn't work out, both of you could then leave.  Whether one or both of you joined doesn't really matter.

[gtrdave]

Yes.
To me it's a must that a person serving on staff at a church be a "member" or at least a regular attender and *gasp* tithes regularly.
Why? Because I'd think it wise to have someone who agrees with the mission and vision of the church, not only Christ's church throughout the world but of the local church, too.
I've already experienced with other churches who hire outside or hire those who have no investment in the church and then either doctrinal differences sever the relationship or commitments are broken because of conflicts of interest or the church is unable to bring Bible-based correction to a person because they exist outside the fold of the flock, even though their life is rife with sin, and if the church tries to bring correction or has to terminate the person, they sue for wrongful termination and slander, etc...

Most churches I'm familiar with have a pretty easy process to become a member. At mine you just come to a luncheon, eat some free food and then sign a membership form if you so desire to become a member.
If you don't, you don't, but don't expect to be getting plugged into leadership of any kind. 

To me, being a member of a church where one is working/serving removes any guessing games and hidden agendas between the church and the person.

[themidiroom]

To me, being a member of a church where one is working/serving removes any guessing games and hidden agendas between the church and the person.

That sounds good in theory.   I play for a small church and everything is quite informal.  I have a really good relationship with the pastor and most everyone there.  I'm not a member but they treat me like I'm part of the family.

[gtrdave]

That sounds good in theory.   I play for a small church and everything is quite informal.  I have a really good relationship with the pastor and most everyone there.  I'm not a member but they treat me like I'm part of the family.

Yeah, after I wrote that I thought to myself, "self, that's not completely true", so let's just say that it can help to remove blah blah blah...

And we should know that there's no one rule that works at every church due to the successful exceptions that are out there, like your situation.