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Author Topic: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1  (Read 20166 times)

Offline DaNatiMaestro

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TRIAD OVER TRITONE

REMEMBER:  A tritone is the 3rd and flat 7th of the root.  A tritone is also the interval of an augmented 4th/diminished 5th.  For the most part for these chord, you'll play 3-b7 of the root in the LH and then a triad in the RH unless otherwise noted

ALSO, these voicings would be considered rootless voicings meaning the bass is either played by bass player or bass pedal on organ

Here is the Tritone List.  For each ROOT note = Tritone

C = EBb |  F = AEb  |  Bb = DAb  |  Eb = GDb
Ab = CGb  |  Db = FB  |  Gb = BbE  |  B = EbA
E = G#D  |  A = C#G  |  D = F#C  |  G = BF

D / C (tritone) = C7 (#11)  or C7 (b5)  <-- means playing a D major triad over C tritone
note: another way to think about this one is to play a major triad off the major 2nd in RH and root's tritone in LH
note: spelled out.. EBb/DF#A
note: one of the most common altered dominant 7th chords

Ab / C (tritone) = C7alt or C7 (#9 #5)
note: another way to think about this one is to play a major triad off the minor 6th (flat 6th) in RH and root's tritone in LH
note: spelled out.. EBb/EbAbC
note: one of the most common altered dominant 7th chords

A / C (tritone) = C7 (b9)
note: another way to think about this one is to play a major triad off the major 6th in RH and root's tritone in LH
note: spelled out.. EBb/EAC#
note: because you have a doubling of the E (playing E in both hands) you can leave out the bottom E (3rd) and play it like this Bb/EAC#.  The voicing can get muddy with doubling that bottom note.
note: one of the most common altered dominant 7th chords

F#m / C (tritone) = C7 (b9 b5) or C7 (b9 #11)
note: another way to think about this one is to play a minor triad off the augmented 4th in RH and root's tritone in LH
note: spelled out.. EBb/C#F#A


There are 5 more but these are the most common altered dominant 7th chords.  And is a good start!!

Oh yeah while practicing to get the sound of the chords you may want to add the root to the 3-b7 you are playing in your LH for instance for C7alt you'd want to play CEBb/EbAbC so you can hear the full harmony with the root.  In actual playing scenario though you'd want to leave out the root if you're playing in a setting where the root will be played separately.
(You are doubling the C in this voicing but that's ok because you're doubling the top note or the melody note.)

Any questions or comments, please post!!
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 04:35:59 PM »
I'm gonna have to print this out at work tomorrow.  ;D
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Offline BroAllan

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2008, 05:45:57 AM »
Thanks for the post ...
I'm gonna be working on this.  :)

Offline Fenix

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2008, 08:17:16 AM »
I started off understanding but am now completely lost.  ?/?

What exactly IS the theory behind using the tri-tone. How do you know WHEN it is appropriate to use a tri-tone?

In your examples, all the chords have C tri-tones. Why is that? Can i use other tritones with it?
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Offline musallio

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 08:39:07 AM »
I started off understanding but am now completely lost.  ?/?

What exactly IS the theory behind using the tri-tone. How do you know WHEN it is appropriate to use a tri-tone?

In your examples, all the chords have C tri-tones. Why is that? Can i use other tritones with it?


I think the maestro is just showing you all the possible combos of triads that can be used with the C tritone (which I believe is more useful IMO rather than giving us just 1 way of playing it.)

What this means is that you can easily find the combos for the other tritones (C#, D, Eb,E etc) by using your theory ;D amkes sense?

The easiest way to do this transposition is the number system of course ;D

I think the Maestro is giving us stuff that he either hears alot/ plays alot, sos I think it's very handy to us..
I'm sure if I'm on the right track, you can use the method I've suggested to find the other combos for other LH notes..
but let's w8 & hear what the Maestro says..

If you still don't understand this, then I don't mind transposing it for ya (that's if DNM says I'm on track of course ;))
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Offline Fenix

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 09:26:13 AM »
I think the maestro is just showing you all the possible combos of triads that can be used with the C tritone (which I believe is more useful IMO rather than giving us just 1 way of playing it.)

What this means is that you can easily find the combos for the other tritones (C#, D, Eb,E etc) by using your theory ;D amkes sense?

The easiest way to do this transposition is the number system of course ;D

I think the Maestro is giving us stuff that he either hears alot/ plays alot, sos I think it's very handy to us..
I'm sure if I'm on the right track, you can use the method I've suggested to find the other combos for other LH notes..
but let's w8 & hear what the Maestro says..

If you still don't understand this, then I don't mind transposing it for ya (that's if DNM says I'm on track of course ;))

I don't understand anything you just said, i'm sorry. Please explain.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 09:34:50 AM »
I started off understanding but am now completely lost.  ?/?

What exactly IS the theory behind using the tri-tone. How do you know WHEN it is appropriate to use a tri-tone?

In your examples, all the chords have C tri-tones. Why is that? Can i use other tritones with it?


Easy big fella; breathe.


DaNati is showing us possible uses for the C (E-Bb, in either order) tri-tone.

The "theory" behind it is: in the LH play the 3rd and the b7 (in this case the E and the Bb, respectively).

In the RH, play one of the triads he has spelled out.

I think your question is: How do I know which triad to use?


Good question. I think it's more rationale, than theory; but, I could be wrong.

For the sake of simplicity, and hopefully clarity, I'll just say this: He got the triads by playing a MAJOR 2 chord (instead of the usual minor 2 chord) of C (i.e. D Major chord); a MAJOR flatted 6 chord (i.e. Ab Major chord); a MAJOR 6 chord (i.e. A Major chord); lastly, a MINOR sharp 4 chord (i.e. F# minor).

I hope I've made this a bit easier for you to digest. Be blessed.
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Offline musallio

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 10:08:17 AM »
Easy big fella; breathe.


DaNati is showing us possible uses for the C (E-Bb, in either order) tri-tone.

The "theory" behind it is: in the LH play the 3rd and the b7 (in this case the E and the Bb, respectively).

In the RH, play one of the triads he has spelled out.

I think your question is: How do I know which triad to use?


Good question. I think it's more rationale, than theory; but, I could be wrong.

For the sake of simplicity, and hopefully clarity, I'll just say this: He got the triads by playing a MAJOR 2 chord (instead of the usual minor 2 chord) of C (i.e. D Major chord); a MAJOR flatted 6 chord (i.e. Ab Major chord); a MAJOR 6 chord (i.e. A Major chord); lastly, a MINOR sharp 4 chord (i.e. F# minor).

I hope I've made this a bit easier for you to digest. Be blessed.

Precisely :)

If you still don't understand..

this is the example in C# (the key is to look at the tritone as a single bass note instead of the actual tritone (that can be very confusing)..

looking at the example of the F#m / C (tritone)  F#m chord over the C tritone  [EBb/C#F#A], we can readily transpose this into the key of C# in a few different ways, the 1st 1 that comes to mind for me is to 1st put everything in numbers so tha I can transpose into any key I want:

so, using the C major scale, we derive: 3-b7/#1-#4-6,

therefore in the key of C# (C#=1; D#=2; E#=3; F#=4; G#=5; A#=6; B#=7), we get:  E#-B/C#-F##-A#

or simply put, F-B/Db-G-Bb

or in the key of Ab, = C-Gb/A-D-F  etc

so in effect, DNM, has given us 12 times of what we see here!!!
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Offline Fenix

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 10:09:21 AM »
Easy big fella; breathe.


DaNati is showing us possible uses for the C (E-Bb, in either order) tri-tone.

The "theory" behind it is: in the LH play the 3rd and the b7 (in this case the E and the Bb, respectively).

In the RH, play one of the triads he has spelled out.

I think your question is: How do I know which triad to use?


Good question. I think it's more rationale, than theory; but, I could be wrong.

For the sake of simplicity, and hopefully clarity, I'll just say this: He got the triads by playing a MAJOR 2 chord (instead of the usual minor 2 chord) of C (i.e. D Major chord); a MAJOR flatted 6 chord (i.e. Ab Major chord); a MAJOR 6 chord (i.e. A Major chord); lastly, a MINOR sharp 4 chord (i.e. F# minor).

I hope I've made this a bit easier for you to digest. Be blessed.

Well...

At least you understood my question. I appreciate that. I still dont understand when you say the LH plays the 3 and b7. The 3 and b7 of what??? Lets say i am in the key of C and i want to play an F major chord, how do i know what tri-tone to use?

If i am confused by just the applications of the C tri-tone, i'm most likely going to be lost on the applications of other tri-tones.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 10:28:54 AM »
Well...

At least you understood my question. I appreciate that. I still dont understand when you say the LH plays the 3 and b7. The 3 and b7 of what??? Lets say i am in the key of C and i want to play an F major chord, how do i know what tri-tone to use?

If i am confused by just the applications of the C tri-tone, i'm most likely going to be lost on the applications of other tri-tones.

You'd play the 3 and b7 of whatever particular chord you're playing (in the examples, C).

To answer your particular question about wanting to play an F major chord, in the key of C, you could play a E-Bb/AbCEb chord to get TO that F major chord.


If you wanted to play the F major chord, where are you going after that F major chord?

BTW, the 3 and b7 of an F major chord are A & Eb.  ;)
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Offline DaNatiMaestro

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 02:44:47 PM »
Everything that SJ2 and Musallio are accurate.  I think the issue is that TRITONE is maybe the biggest buzz word in the whole Gospel Music chording arena.  And so when you mention it folks get instantly confused.

I touched on Tritones in my Mellow Talk Chord Theory post/sticky. 

A tritone is nothing more than the interval of a augmented 4th/diminished 5th. C and Gb.  Ab and D. F and B.  so on and so forth. 
When you play a dominant 7th chord like C7 = C-E-G-Bb you happen to form the interval of tritone with the E and Bb.  The E and Bb also happen to be the 3rd and b7 of the C7 chord you are playing.  So alot of time to play that dominant 7th harmony musicians will leave out the 5 and just play root-3-b7 or C/EBb  or root in the LH and a tritone interval in the RH

So when I say "play a C tritone" I mean play the tritone interval that exists in a C dominant 7th chord.  Based on what I wrote above that would be the 3 and b7 of the root C or E and Bb

I use dominant 7th chords as one type of passing chord to get me from one chord to the next in a progression.  There are others but for the purposes of this post I'll use dominant 7th chords.

For instance take a 4-6 progression in the key of Ab, the progression is DbMaj9 to Fm9.

DbMaj9
Fm9

Now if I wanted to phatten this progression up I would add a couple of passing chords. 

my progression will look like this

DbMaj9
Passing Chord to get to Fm9 HERE
Fm9
Passing Chord to get back to DbMaj9 HERE

Now there is a guideline that I use when creating passing chords and that is every chord can be approached/preceded by a dominant 7th chord a 5th away. 
(I talk about this extensively in my Passing Chord conversation that is a sticky as well)

So with that in mind, I'm going to approach both chords in my progression using a dominant 7th chord a 5th away.
(I'm using a dominant chord because it's harmony has the most flexibility with extensions and alterations.)

Progression Update:

DbMaj9
Some type of C7 to get to Fm9
Fm9
Some type of Ab7 to get to DbMaj9

Now I pull out my charts and create chords that will flow to the progression that I have.  Now the big question here is WHAT DOMINANT 7th chord should I use?  Really that's up to you and what you're trying to achieve.  You may choose to use one type of dominant 7th chord over another because of the voice leading of the melody, the bass line that you'd want to use or how "out" you want the passing chords to sound. 

To be honest what I used to do back in the day is that I would play each of the different upper structure slash chords for a C7 dominant chord and see which one sounds the best resolving to a Fm9. 

For me I like to use dominant 7 alt (7 #9 #5) chords to take me to a minor chord and use dominant 7 b9 chords to take me to a major chord. 

(FYI.. to see/hear this in action, In the classic song Power Belongs To God by Hezekiah Walker they play Bb7 #9 #5 every time as a passing chord before they go to the chord that starts the song with is the Ebmin9 (song is in the key of Gb so the song starts on the 6))

Progression Update:

DbMaj9
C7 alt or C7 (#9 #5)
Fm9
Ab 7 (b9 #5)

Db/FAbCEb         Fm7 / Db   (DbMaj9)  from chart #2
EBb/AbCEb       Ab triad / C tritone (C7 #9 #5) from chart #3 overlap your hands  or you could have used  C/EAbBbEb    Emaj7b5 / C   (C7 #9 #5) from chart #2
F/GAbCEb           Abmaj7 / F  (Fm9)  from chart #2
Ab/GbACE             Gbm7b5 / Ab  (Ab7 b9 #5) from chart #2  (I actually use this chord alot because of how the E on top of this chord resolves so smoothly to the Eb on top of the Db chord)

I'm not in front of a keyboard but this the process that I would use.  Once I know the chords and harmonies that I want to use, I'd change around the order of the notes to get the voicing that I want.

Does this make sense?  I hope I didn't complicate it more. :-) 
Passing chords are a subject all their own!!
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Offline Ladyn

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 03:19:02 PM »
Wow, Thanks so much!  I am printing this out right now to study.  I understand what you are teaching here, but I a going to spend some time applying it.  I just thought of a couple of songs to apply this too!

Offline DaNatiMaestro

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2008, 03:26:39 PM »
Wow, Thanks so much!  I am printing this out right now to study.  I understand what you are teaching here, but I a going to spend some time applying it.  I just thought of a couple of songs to apply this too!

No problem!! APPLICATION!! Is what it's all about!! 

If you don't mind could you share how you applied this knowledge when you apply it..LOL  I'd love to see how you and others in the LGM family are using this knowledge!!
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Offline Fenix

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 03:28:07 PM »

Does this make sense?  I hope I didn't complicate it more. :-) 
Passing chords are a subject all their own!!

Why dint'cha say all dat at the beginning?????? LOL  :D :D :D :DIt makes GOOD sense now.

So am i right in saying that you only use tritones with a chord when you want to use that chord as a passing chord to another. So you can't use a tri-tone in the "normal" progression of the song?
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Offline DaNatiMaestro

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 03:44:08 PM »
Why dint'cha say all dat at the beginning?????? LOL  :D :D :D :DIt makes GOOD sense now.

So am i right in saying that you only use tritones with a chord when you want to use that chord as a passing chord to another. So you can't use a tri-tone in the "normal" progression of the song?

Not quite.  Really anywhere you use a dominant 7th chord you're going to create a tritone so for instance some of those congregational songs (This Little Light of Mine, Victory Is Mine, God's Not Dead, etc.) the 1 chord could be a dominant 7th chord like Ab7 so you would form that tritone (C - Gb).
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Offline Fenix

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2008, 03:47:22 PM »
Not quite.  Really anywhere you use a dominant 7th chord you're going to create a tritone so for instance some of those congregational songs (This Little Light of Mine, Victory Is Mine, God's Not Dead, etc.) the 1 chord could be a dominant 7th chord like Ab7 so you would form that tritone (C - Gb).

Now i get it.

If its this simple, why are folks confused?

This should be a sticky. Can you make one mega-thread with all your Upper Structure threads in it and then sticky it? Thanks, you are really blessed for this. You have no idea how much the last one about how to form chords on the fly helped. My bassist in church was impressed when he called out a progression and i NAILED it.

We had a great time jamming that night.
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Offline DaNatiMaestro

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2008, 04:02:32 PM »
Now i get it.

If its this simple, why are folks confused?

This should be a sticky. Can you make one mega-thread with all your Upper Structure threads in it and then sticky it? Thanks, you are really blessed for this. You have no idea how much the last one about how to form chords on the fly helped. My bassist in church was impressed when he called out a progression and i NAILED it.

We had a great time jamming that night.

I'm with you on that but I know that better explanations and theory can dispel the confusion and make it simple!!

That's AWESOME!  More APPLICATION!! This is wonderful to hear.  That is the reason that I posted these charts so that you'd be able to play just like that!

I'm not in charge of the stickies that's up to Mr. T-Block.  :)
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Offline musallio

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2008, 03:57:14 AM »
Now i get it.

If its this simple, why are folks confused?

This should be a sticky. Can you make one mega-thread with all your Upper Structure threads in it and then sticky it? Thanks, you are really blessed for this. You have no idea how much the last one about how to form chords on the fly helped. My bassist in church was impressed when he called out a progression and i NAILED it.

We had a great time jamming that night.

I'm glad to hear that Fenbox 8)

It does help when every1 is on par with chord names in a band coz there are these advantages 8)
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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2008, 06:45:29 AM »
Now i get it.

If its this simple, why are folks confused?

This should be a sticky. Can you make one mega-thread with all your Upper Structure threads in it and then sticky it? Thanks, you are really blessed for this. You have no idea how much the last one about how to form chords on the fly helped. My bassist in church was impressed when he called out a progression and i NAILED it.

We had a great time jamming that night.

So, I'm guessing you didn't see the sticky I posted with all of D's theory posts huh?  Well, now u have been informed, check it out!
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Offline Fenix

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Re: Slash Chord / Upper Structure Chart #3 - Triad Over Tritone pt. 1
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2008, 07:57:15 AM »
So, I'm guessing you didn't see the sticky I posted with all of D's theory posts huh?  Well, now u have been informed, check it out!

Oh yeah, now i see it.  :-[ :)

Thanks. Aren't you adding to this? What do you know about tri-tones?
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