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Author Topic: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!  (Read 7169 times)

Offline seemunny

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Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« on: May 06, 2008, 01:11:40 AM »
Ok, i recently seen this interview (that some of you may have seen) with Jamal Hartwell interviewing P.J. Morgan.

Jamal asked him to play a few different "Levels" of a song, each time "phattening it up" more and more, until the last time he asked him to "take it as far OUT as you can". That was a Treat to hear!

You can take a song so far OUT, to where you can barely recognize the song! lol...But it can be a FUN thing to do just to learn with.

I understand that "taking it as far OUT as you can" is NOT something you would regularly do, HOWEVER, i think when you have the ABILITY (at will) to do that, that is a true skill.

THEREFORE, it would be cool if some of you Keyboard Masters could give somewhat of a "LIST OF MOVES or OPTIONS" that one could use to "take it as far out" as you want at any given time. Because, i think it's those kind of "OPTIONS" of things to do, that are what can take your playing to the next level, and people can actually hear the growth!....

For instance, you might wanna give a "simplified" progression example, then take it "out" slightly more...then finally take it all the way "OUT!" lol....That would be cool to see the contrasting examples of what is possible!

I hope i'm stating this clear enough, if not i can try to tighten it up. 8)

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 01:17:30 AM »
In a nutshell:

1) a list of options
2) some examples of progressions showing some of the options.

8)

Offline lauenceholley

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 02:08:20 AM »
where is this interview located , I'd like to watch it.

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 10:52:49 PM »
Here's where to find the interview:

go to www.gospelmusicians.com

up top, click on "resources"

then click on "interviews"

scroll down and click on "PJ Morgan Intimate Interview"

click enter website

Offline lauenceholley

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 03:21:47 AM »
Thank you so much for the detailed response.

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 02:36:38 AM »
No prob!  8)

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 09:48:45 AM »
Oh my! Really long posts don't catch fish! lol

A lil too much gamma ray! 8)

Offline Spyda1989

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2008, 02:18:40 PM »
Here's where to find the interview:

go to www.gospelmusicians.com

up top, click on "resources"

then click on "interviews"

scroll down and click on "PJ Morgan Intimate Interview"

click enter website

you can't just post stuff like that!!!!!! this needs some kind of advisory!

WARNING TAKING IT ALL THE WAY OUT IS GUARANTEED TO MAKE YOU MELT IN YOUR SEAT AND MAKE ALL KIND OF OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FACES!!!!

Spyda
------
Spyda

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2008, 01:22:56 AM »
Ha! Spyda, i'm right there wit you on that one!

That demonstrates how well PJ knows his chords. He knows move after move after move! Which gives him more control at all times.

He can take it out....he can bring it back in....AT WILL, because of those "options & moves".

Give us some nice options & moves all you keyboard masters! 8)

Offline T-Block

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2008, 02:06:56 PM »
Taking It Out:  PART ONE

O.K., I finally got to check out the P.J. Morgon interview and I have to say I was very impressed.  The man knows his stuff for real.  For the most part, his response to how to "take a song out" just confirmed what I been saying for years, know some scales, progressions, and theory.

If you want to improvise a pattern, u first have to know what the pattern is.  Theory will help you figure out what the pattern is.  Once u got the pattern, then u need to know what are the possible places in the pattern that u can add some stuff in.  So, let's get a simple pattern started and let's slowly modify it:

Key Cm / Eb  LH/RH

[1, 2, 3, 4] C / C-Eb-G
[1, 2, 3, 4] Ab / G-C-Eb
[1, 2, 3, 4] F / Eb-Ab-C
[1, 2, 3, 4] G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb
(repeat)

So, let's use our theory to see what we got here.  Since we in Cm, i'm gonna use it's relative major, Eb, to name the pattern:

C / C-Eb-G   *C minor chord, root in the bass, 6 chord in RH (root position), 6 in the LH

Ab / G-C-Eb   *Ab major 7th chord, root in the bass, 6 chord in RH (2nd inversion), 4 in the LH

F / Eb-Ab-C   *F minor 7th chord, root in the bass, 4 chord in RH (2nd inversion), 2 in the LH

G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb   *G7 #5/b9 chord, root in the bass, altered 5 chord in RH (3rd inversion), 3 in the LH

So, it looks like we got a 6-4-2-3 progression here.  Now, we are going to expand on this a little bit.  So, the question now becomes what are some possible options that may help?   Just like P.J. said in the interview, let's add some more to the LH:


Option #1:  LH Embellishment

[1] C/ C-Eb-G
[an] G /
[2, 3, 4] C /
[1] Ab / G-C-Eb
[an] Eb /
[2, 3, 4] Ab /
[1] F / Eb-Ab-C
[an] C /
[2, 3, 4] F /
[1] G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb
[an] D /
[2, 3, 4] G /

What I've done here was add in an the 5th & octave notes of the bass notes.  This creates a flowing LH with the stationary chords in the RH.  Now that we got our LH doing a little something, let's do some more exploring with the RH:


Option #2:  Inversions

[1] C / Eb-G-C  *1st inversion C minor chord in RH
[an] G /
[2, 3, 4] C /
[1] Ab / C-Eb-G  *root position C minor chord in RH
[an] Eb /
[2, 3, 4] Ab /
[1] F / C-Eb-Ab  *1st inversion Ab major chord in RH
[an] C /
[2, 3, 4] F /
[1] G / Bb-Cb-Eb-F  *root position Bbsus4 (b9) chord in RH
[an] D /
[2, 3, 4] G /

Notice how the inversions changed slightly from what I started with.  This can happen at anytime throughout the progression.  Experiment with different octaves for playing each chord.  Here's something else:


Option #3:  Substitution Chords

[1] C / Bb-D-F  *root position Bb major chord in RH
[an] G /
[2, 3, 4] C /
[1] Ab / Bb-Eb-G  *2nd inversion Eb major chord in RH
[an] Eb /
[2, 3, 4] Ab /
[1] F / C-Eb-Ab  *1st inversion Ab major chord in RH
[an] C /
[2, 3, 4] F /
[1] G / Cb-D-F-Ab  *Dim. 7th chord in RH (root can be any of the notes)
[an] D /
[2, 3, 4] G /

Whoa, let's take a closer look at the chord substitutions I made:

C / Bb-D-F  sub. for  C / C-Eb-G   *what I did here was play a 5 chord in place of the 6 chord i already used

Ab / Bb-Eb-G  sub. for  Ab / G-C-Eb   *what I did here was play a 1 chord in place of the 6 chord I already used

G / Cb-D-F-Ab  sub. for  G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb  *what I did here was play a dim. 7 chord in place of the altered 5 chord I already used.  I said that the root can any of the notes, the way to determine which note is by the next chord being played.  Since were gonna repeat, it's going to a 6.  So, the root in this case is Cb, Cb dim7. chord

Now, i bet yall wondering "How did he know he could sub. those particular chords in there and it would still sound good?"  Another P.J. answer is lots of experimentation, working with different chords against different bass notes.  Let's keep going:


Option #4:  Melody Run(s) On Top Of Chords

[1] C/ C-Eb-G
[an] G /
[2] C /
[3]  / Eb
[an]  / D
[4]  / Bb
[an]  / C
[1] Ab / C-Eb-G
[an] Eb /
[2, 3] Ab /
[an]  / G
[4]  / F
[an]  / Eb
[1] F / C-Eb-Ab
[an] C /
[2, 3, 4] F /
[1] G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb
[an] D /
[2] G / Ab
[an]  / G
[3, 4]  / F

Now, let's take a look at each little run that I added on top of each chord:

G / C-Eb-G,  melody run on top:  Eb,  down to D,  down to Bb,  up to C

Ab / C-Eb-G,  melody run on top:  G,  down to F,  down to Eb

F / C-Eb-Ab,  no melody on top

G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb,  melody on top:  Ab,  down to G,  down to F

If you take a closer look at those melody notes, u will notice that they all come from the Eb major scale.  You can throw in little runs like that to make it seem like u have 2 instruments parts going at one time.  They can be a couple of notes, or however many notes u can fit in b4 the next chord.  Let's add on some more:


Option #5:  Filler/Passing Chords

[1] C / C-Eb-G
[an] G /
[2] C /
[3] Bb / Ab-C-Db-F
[4] Eb / G-C-Db-F
[1] Ab / G-C-Eb
[an] Eb /
[2, 3, 4] Ab /
[1] F / Eb-Ab-C
[an] C /
[2, 3, 4] F /
[1] G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb
[an] D /
[2, 3, 4] G /

Did yall catch the filler/passing chords I threw in?  Let's talk about them:

Bb / Ab-C-Db-F   *Db/Bb, b7 (Db major 7th, 2nd inversion) chord in the RH, 5 in the LH

Eb / G-C-Db-F   *Eb7 9/13, altered 3 (Gsus7 b5, root position) chord in RH, 1 in the LH

So, what I did was throw in a 5-1 progression since the next chord is a 4.  Think of it as a 6-2-5-1-4 progression w/out the 2 while inside the original 6-4-2-3 progression.  Did that make sense?  Let's look at it one more time with the chords themselves so u can see it better:

C / C-Eb-G (6)
missing (2)
Bb / Ab-C-Db-F (5)
Eb / G-C-Db-F (1)
Ab / G-C-Eb (4)

You get it now?  Adding in progressions like that as filler/passing chords is a great way to spice up your music.  Here's one more thing you can do for now:


Option 6:  Substitution & Filler/Passing Chords Combo

[1] C / Bb-D-F
[an] G /
[2] C /
[3] Bb / Db-F-Ab-C
[4] Eb / Db-F-G-Bb
[1] Ab / C-Eb-G-Bb
[an] Eb /
[2, 3, 4] Ab /
[1] F / G-Ab-Bb-Eb
[an] C /
[2, 3, 4] F /
[1] G / D-G-B
[2] A / Eb-Gb-A-C
[3] B / F-Ab-B-D
[4] G / Cb-Eb-F-Bb

I bet right now, some of yall are saying "WHOA, what the heck was that?"  I threw in a couple little progression movements and some sub. chords.  Let's take a look at them:

Bb / Db-F-Ab-C  *Db/Bb, b7 (Db major 7th, root position) chord in the RH, 5 in the LH
Eb / Db-F-G-Bb   *Eb9,  altered 3 (Gm7 b5, 2nd inversion) chord in the RH, 1 in the LH
Ab / C-Eb-G-Bb   *AbM9,  altered 6 (Cm7, root position) chord in the RH, 4 in the LH

Remember ealier when I added the 5-1 progression in?  Well, here I expounded on that idea by changing those chords I played ealier and changing the 4 chord all in the same move.  The next one:

G / D-G-B  *G major chord, altered 3 (G major, 2nd inversion) chord in the RH, 3 in the LH
A / Eb-Gb-A-C  *Adim7, #4 chord in the RH, #4 in the LH
B / F-Ab-B-D  *Bdim7, #5 chord in the RH, #5 in the LH

This move right here is done in a lot of gospel songs.  It's basically a secondary dominant movement with passing chords in the middle.  If yall remember the discussion on sec. dom., it's when u take a chord that is normally minor, make it major, then resolve to 4 of the chord.

Here, the sec. dom. chord is the G major chord.  It is usually minor, but here it is major.  The next 2 dim.7 chord are just fillers to get to the intended resolution chord, which in this case should be some type of C chord.  Since it's gonna repeat back to the beginning, and we started off with a 6, this little progression works.  Think of it as a elongated 3-6 progression.


PHEW, that was a lot of options.  Go back through and see how the basic progression at the beginning slowly began to morph into the progression at the end using simple techiniques.  Also, notice how the theory was used to explain the movements and make them valid to the progression.  I need a break, so I'll be back when I can wit Part Two.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 12:47:11 AM »
Ha! OMG! T-block... you put cha foot in it this time!

Man this is some well needed study!! I'm gon explore this one from wall to wall, this is what i've been lookin for!

Like Musallio always say: "you might wanna put this on the sticky!" lol

Good lookin out T!! 8)

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2008, 12:51:55 AM »
Oh yeah, and the use of theory to be able to explain what you did, is priceless!

Can't wait to see what you got in store for part 2! I'm waitin' on the edge of my seat for that treat! 8)

Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2008, 01:44:08 AM »
Some of yall better not sleep on this "Taking It Out: Part One"....

T-block is breakin it down! 8)

Offline BroAllan

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2008, 04:10:47 AM »
Some of yall better not sleep on this "Taking It Out: Part One"....

T-block is breakin it down! 8)


What can I say, T? 

Thanks again for all you do in helping us learn and grow as musicians ... BroAllan  ;)  :D

Offline musallio

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 09:49:35 AM »
Ha! OMG! T-block... you put cha foot in it this time!

Man this is some well needed study!! I'm gon explore this one from wall to wall, this is what i've been lookin for!

Like Musallio always say: "you might wanna put this on the sticky!" lol

Good lookin out T!! 8)


See what U've done now seemunny..We need more "pushy" ppl like you :D
The guy's at his old games again..
I won't say the "s" word

Nice 1 T..I expect to find this in the S..
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Offline seemunny

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2008, 02:25:17 AM »
I won't say the "s" word

Nice 1 T..I expect to find this in the S..


HAHA!! Go on Musallio, just let it out! lol 8)

Offline ahmadw

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2009, 02:11:28 PM »
Waiting on part 2 T-Block...Im so anxious

Offline chevonee

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2009, 01:30:19 AM »
OMG why am I just seeing this? :o :o :o :o Don't answer that. :-[ :-[ :-[
Man yall are way more edu-ma-kated than me...I've got such a long way to go :'(
Strike while the iron is hot!

Offline betnich

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2009, 11:55:58 AM »
Thanks, T-Block, for the chord breakdown!

:)

I have to JOIN Gospel Musicians in order to see/hear the interview?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Taking It "OUT"; Chords!
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2009, 01:40:32 PM »
Dang, I almost 4got about this topic. I don't even remember what was in the video. I'd have to see this interview and get my mind straight if I do a part 2.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!
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