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Author Topic: How do i write horn parts for a song/  (Read 3328 times)

Offline Fenix

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How do i write horn parts for a song/
« on: May 12, 2008, 08:13:50 AM »
We are trying to write a "theme" song for our church and we need some horn parts. THe only problem is, whenever i play horns, i tend to play it like i am playing piano and it doesn't translate well. Here is the "groove" of the progression;

LH/RH

E / E G B D- Hold for four beats.

E / E G B C#- Hold for four beats.

How do i write up a simple horns part?
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Offline T-Block

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2008, 11:07:21 AM »
Well, to help you get started, since your chords are in E minor, just start messing around with some notes in the E minor scale.
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Offline Fenix

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2008, 11:24:57 AM »
Well, to help you get started, since your chords are in E minor, just start messing around with some notes in the E minor scale.

Thanks T.

My issue is that playing the horns is a TOTALLY different thing altogether. Because i play like a piano player,

I am going to have to listen to some Earth, Wind and Fire stuff. THos guys have good horns stuff. Some other jazz standards will probably help.
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Offline Mrandrew

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2008, 12:11:52 PM »
I have some notes on horn parts I have to look for them, however you do their notes as chords one note for each horn(ex. trombone, sax and trumpet) The trombone represents the bass, so that one is easy. I'll try to find my notes and post.

Offline Fenix

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2008, 12:47:50 PM »
I have some notes on horn parts I have to look for them, however you do their notes as chords one note for each horn(ex. trombone, sax and trumpet) The trombone represents the bass, so that one is easy. I'll try to find my notes and post.

Thanks a lot. I should clarify that i will be playing the horns as a voice on the keyboard.
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Offline Mrandrew

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2008, 12:49:23 PM »
Here are the notes I have for each horn.


Natural Tone
CDEFGAB(Trombone)
DEF#GABC#(Trumpet)
BbCDEbFGA(Sax)

Ex. if the trombone plays a C the trumpet would play D and the sax would play Bb.

If your trombone plays C# the trumpet would play D# and the sax would play B.

I hope this helps I've had these notes for years and used them with horn players in the past.

Offline Mrandrew

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 12:58:53 PM »
If this isn't exactly what you want, then I suggest you do what T stated. What I do at times is thinK of a secondary bass run or melody to use for the horn parts. Just play back what you and the guys record and listen, so you can just about hear your horns.

Offline betnich

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2008, 12:26:42 AM »
Thanks a lot. I should clarify that i will be playing the horns as a voice on the keyboard.


2 ways to approach that -

1 - 3-note chords. Good for rhythmic 'punches'. Play sparingly, lots of rests. Don't play every beat, or sustain them like an organ player. Think 'offbeat' or call/response (play in the breaks between vocals). As for voicing on the keyboard, RH, not too high - Trombone can get up to about C above middle C, so don't get the lowest note of your chords much above that. Sax can take the middle notes, and Trumpet the top line if you ever write them out for real players. Of course if you are playing it on the Synth it can be fattened up with a "Horn Section" type of sound...

2 - Do melodies or countermelodies in octaves.

Think Blues Brothers - Have been listening to Kirk Franklin's HE REIGNS for ideas...
 ;)

Offline Fenix

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2008, 08:13:14 AM »

2 ways to approach that -

1 - 3-note chords. Good for rhythmic 'punches'. Play sparingly, lots of rests. Don't play every beat, or sustain them like an organ player. Think 'offbeat' or call/response (play in the breaks between vocals). As for voicing on the keyboard, RH, not too high - Trombone can get up to about C above middle C, so don't get the lowest note of your chords much above that. Sax can take the middle notes, and Trumpet the top line if you ever write them out for real players. Of course if you are playing it on the Synth it can be fattened up with a "Horn Section" type of sound...

2 - Do melodies or countermelodies in octaves.

Think Blues Brothers - Have been listening to Kirk Franklin's HE REIGNS for ideas...
 ;)

Thanks a lot. I have made a recording on my keyboard of what i came up with. Now if only i knew how to get it on my computer...

So what i am doing is using a "Horns Section" synth and i am sticking to the range of G below middle C to the C above middle C.
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Offline musallio

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 08:11:43 AM »
I also find this to be quite challenging myself.
I'll have to try out the suggestions..But I think I'll need cat-fingers to do that stuff!!

oh, doesn't 1 have to use the pitch bend alot as well when it comes to this part?
I'm still getting the hang of using that wheel! :P
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Offline Fenix

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2008, 08:18:12 AM »
I also find this to be quite challenging myself.
I'll have to try out the suggestions..But I think I'll need cat-fingers to do that stuff!!

oh, doesn't 1 have to use the pitch bend alot as well when it comes to this part?
I'm still getting the hang of using that wheel! :P

Man i don't EVER touch that pitch blend wheel. I distrust it a lot. In fact, the only sound i ever want from my board is a piano sound and strings sound. I have just recently been trying to use some brass or horns. I think for gospel music purposes you have to play brass in a funky style; short phrases and a lot of staccato notes here and there. 
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Offline musallio

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2008, 09:08:17 AM »
Man i don't EVER touch that pitch blend wheel. I distrust it a lot. In fact, the only sound i ever want from my board is a piano sound and strings sound. I have just recently been trying to use some brass or horns. I think for gospel music purposes you have to play brass in a funky style; short phrases and a lot of staccato notes here and there. 

Funky , staccato style, I have to agree with.. 8)

But man, U've got2 try out using that pitch bend..I'm actually integrating it into my playing more & more often to make up my own style...
But then I have to use it differently when playing with some1 else..
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Offline Mrandrew

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2008, 06:34:01 PM »
Funky , staccato style, I have to agree with.. 8)

But man, U've got2 try out using that pitch bend..I'm actually integrating it into my playing more & more often to make up my own style...
But then I have to use it differently when playing with some1 else..

Horn parts are tricky, but the key is to listen to songs and try to emulate the sound of the horn you want.(ie trumpet, sax or bone) If your doing the brass section, best to use a patch that sounds full.

If you do pitch bend it's best for sythn sounds. Doing it to horn sounds can distort the sound some.

Offline musallio

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2008, 06:42:41 AM »
Horn parts are tricky, but the key is to listen to songs and try to emulate the sound of the horn you want.(ie trumpet, sax or bone) If your doing the brass section, best to use a patch that sounds full.

If you do pitch bend it's best for sythn sounds. Doing it to horn sounds can distort the sound some.

I've been listening to Kenny G, some 90s stuff where they use lotsa sax & brass & various other artists of other instruments.

& the Casio has a voice that is exactly spot on with Kenny & sounds full too!! (Tone #163 Tenor Sax) is 1 of them..& I realized that there were some notes I couldn't get to sound exactly like him unless if I used the Pitch Bend feature.
Forgot the song name, but it's in the key of G.

& then there is the jazz guitar as well, I also find myself having to use the Pitch Bend every now & again..

& for you Fenny, you said you make sure you keep away from that feature, once you actually know how its related to the keys, you should have little problem with it after using it a couple of times.

I know this 1 dude who used to bend it to 8..sometimes 10..
I normally bend it to 2 so that I justuse the bend instead of trilling notes manually.

where are all the synth cats..we need your input here..tell us how you use that bend.
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Offline Fenix

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2008, 08:09:03 AM »
Maybe i will start using the pitch blend. The main reason i don't use it is cuz in church i primarily only play the Piano sounds. I have only just recently started using electric piano sounds even. My bassist had to persuade me to try and use other sounds apart from Full Grand Piano.

My issue with sing horns is that you have to be REALLY careful so it doesn't sound muddy. Even using a voice like full brass section on the board sounds cheesy IMO cuz it assumes that the whole band is playing the same note which is not often the case. When you do play chords, it sounds slightly muddy.
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Offline musallio

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2008, 08:46:54 AM »
Find something of your own & let us know what you come up with..I'd like to know what sounds you use etc..also look into the..i think it's called synth pads or something..there are voices which are not as muddy & are just the right balance & you can actually play full chords with them.

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Offline themidiroom

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2008, 01:57:31 PM »
I do horns a lot when I'm doing soul and r&b gigs.  The easiest thing to do is octaves.  Having flexible sounds is really helpful.  On the Motif, they have horns with the fall off after you release the note, Horns that crescendo, etc.  If you're really serious, get a breath controller then you can control the dynamics and articulations with your breathing like horn players do.  Oh, for me having a board with synth keys also helps.  Not sure if any of my babbling is of any assistance to you or not.   :D
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Offline Fenix

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2008, 02:33:52 PM »
I do horns a lot when I'm doing soul and r&b gigs.  The easiest thing to do is octaves.  Having flexible sounds is really helpful.  On the Motif, they have horns with the fall off after you release the note, Horns that crescendo, etc.  If you're really serious, get a breath controller then you can control the dynamics and articulations with your breathing like horn players do.  Oh, for me having a board with synth keys also helps.  Not sure if any of my babbling is of any assistance to you or not.   :D

Well i do do octaves (doodoo...funny :))

I am really interested in that breath controller thing you mentioned. Is it like a pedal you attach to the board?
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Offline Mrandrew

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2008, 05:16:35 PM »
When I do the horns sounds I use them more to set an atmosphere, think of Miles, Chris Botti and Rick Bruan. I start with the chords and just play want I'm feeling at the time. For the full brass section I never chord I just play single notes.

Offline Mrandrew

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Re: How do i write horn parts for a song/
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 05:25:03 PM »
I've been listening to Kenny G, some 90s stuff where they use lotsa sax & brass & various other artists of other instruments.

& the Casio has a voice that is exactly spot on with Kenny & sounds full too!! (Tone #163 Tenor Sax) is 1 of them..& I realized that there were some notes I couldn't get to sound exactly like him unless if I used the Pitch Bend feature.
Forgot the song name, but it's in the key of G.

& then there is the jazz guitar as well, I also find myself having to use the Pitch Bend every now & again..

& for you Fenny, you said you make sure you keep away from that feature, once you actually know how its related to the keys, you should have little problem with it after using it a couple of times.

I know this 1 dude who used to bend it to 8..sometimes 10..
I normally bend it to 2 so that I justuse the bend instead of trilling notes manually.

where are all the synth cats..we need your input here..tell us how you use that bend.
MrAndrew is giving in his share.. 8)

I like synth sounds for certain songs I compose or when doing solo's. Remember I'm just learning to play gospel so when playing more of a jazzy sound you tend to use a lot of the sound patches on your board.

With the guitar you will need to use the pitch bend to get more of an authentic sound.

Musallio you need to listen to Boney James, Kirk Whalum, Marion Meadows, Everrette Harp and Gerald Albright just to name a few for a more contemporary sounds. I really don't listen to Kenny G.
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