Does anyone else have this problem?

[johncomo]

I have not been to this site in quite a while. I am reading the replies to this post and it seems that most of these choir's stucture is not in place. There was one instance where the choir had not practiced in 6 months. This type of practice does not allow your choir to flourish in the spirit without struggle. There is obvious no new material learned unless it is spontaneously presented, leaving your choir being repetitive in nature and predictable with the same old song, now that is okay, we can stay and sing this all day and every day but this is getting old, I want to move on to another level, how about you. There is still drama going on with issues that does not pertain to the choir scene which leads to even more downfalls. Arguments that have no place but ouside is dragged inside practices disrupting all the agenda at hand. I tell my people to leave your household drama at the door of the outside of the church before you enter because when you get in, its all God's business. Music Ministers and/or Choir Director's MUST be on the same accord with the Musicians. You have no idea what it takes to play hundereds of songs in a span of a couple of years and then to all of a sudden come out of the blue and expect the musician to play something that was not played or rehearsed since the beginnning of time, especially if everyone is playing without sheet music slpattered in their face. That is one reason I said that the two entities must get on the same wave. The Director doesn't have a clue unless he or she is a Musician/Director in knowing that these old songs most of the times must be revisited before playing. Just because you are playing professional doesn't mean that you are perfect,That is one of the reaseons why most of the time you are at a concert requesting a certain song that is not being played and the srtist "refuses" to play the song, why, because they did not practice it to be worked in their lineup for the tour, oh it happens sometimes but not all the time. As I scan on more post, I see that we Music Ministers and Directors need to step up the process. There is simply no excuse to be practicing your choir every two or three months or longer and expect results in a good way. I promise you it will be bad period. Practice at least once a week. With me, you have to understand that each and every Sunday, folks from all the land come with expectation to get fed in the soul, now you tell me how it this attainable on the music side of worship with a neglected situation. We can all do better than this because we are better than this. Go back to the drawing board and start all over again with a hunger.

[sjonathan02]

I have not been to this site in quite a while. I am reading the replies to this post and it seems that most of these choir's stucture is not in place. There was one instance where the choir had not practiced in 6 months. This type of practice does not allow your choir to flourish in the spirit without struggle. There is obvious no new material learned unless it is spontaneously presented, leaving your choir being repetitive in nature and predictable with the same old song, now that is okay, we can stay and sing this all day and every day but this is getting old, I want to move on to another level, how about you. There is still drama going on with issues that does not pertain to the choir scene which leads to even more downfalls. Arguments that have no place but ouside is dragged inside practices disrupting all the agenda at hand. I tell my people to leave your household drama at the door of the outside of the church before you enter because when you get in, its all God's business. Music Ministers and/or Choir Director's MUST be on the same accord with the Musicians. You have no idea what it takes to play hundereds of songs in a span of a couple of years and then to all of a sudden come out of the blue and expect the musician to play something that was not played or rehearsed since the beginnning of time, especially if everyone is playing without sheet music slpattered in their face. That is one reason I said that the two entities must get on the same wave. The Director doesn't have a clue unless he or she is a Musician/Director in knowing that these old songs most of the times must be revisited before playing. Just because you are playing professional doesn't mean that you are perfect,That is one of the reaseons why most of the time you are at a concert requesting a certain song that is not being played and the srtist "refuses" to play the song, why, because they did not practice it to be worked in their lineup for the tour, oh it happens sometimes but not all the time. As I scan on more post, I see that we Music Ministers and Directors need to step up the process. There is simply no excuse to be practicing your choir every two or three months or longer and expect results in a good way. I promise you it will be bad period. Practice at least once a week. With me, you have to understand that each and every Sunday, folks from all the land come with expectation to get fed in the soul, now you tell me how it this attainable on the music side of worship with a neglected situation. We can all do better than this because we are better than this. Go back to the drawing board and start all over again with a hunger.

[NJDBalla]

  I was thinking the same thing. Very good points though. (by the way)

[Ladyn]

I have not been to this site in quite a while. I am reading the replies to this post and it seems that most of these choir's stucture is not in place.

There was one instance where the choir had not practiced in 6 months. This type of practice does not allow your choir to flourish in the spirit without struggle. There is obvious no new material learned unless it is spontaneously presented, leaving your choir being repetitive in nature and predictable with the same old song, now that is okay, we can stay and sing this all day and every day but this is getting old, I want to move on to another level, how about you.

There is still drama going on with issues that does not pertain to the choir scene which leads to even more downfalls. Arguments that have no place but ouside is dragged inside practices disrupting all the agenda at hand. I tell my people to leave your household drama at the door of the outside of the church before you enter because when you get in, its all God's business.

Music Ministers and/or Choir Director's MUST be on the same accord with the Musicians. You have no idea what it takes to play hundereds of songs in a span of a couple of years and then to all of a sudden come out of the blue and expect the musician to play something that was not played or rehearsed since the beginnning of time, especially if everyone is playing without sheet music slpattered in their face.

That is one reason I said that the two entities must get on the same wave. The Director doesn't have a clue unless he or she is a Musician/Director in knowing that these old songs most of the times must be revisited before playing.

Just because you are playing professional doesn't mean that you are perfect,That is one of the reaseons why most of the time you are at a concert requesting a certain song that is not being played and the srtist "refuses" to play the song, why, because they did not practice it to be worked in their lineup for the tour, oh it happens sometimes but not all the time.


As I scan on more post, I see that we Music Ministers and Directors need to step up the process. There is simply no excuse to be practicing your choir every two or three months or longer and expect results in a good way. I promise you it will be bad period. Practice at least once a week. With me, you have to understand that each and every Sunday, folks from all the land come with expectation to get fed in the soul, now you tell me how it this attainable on the music side of worship with a neglected situation.

We can all do better than this because we are better than this. Go back to the drawing board and start all over again with a hunger.

I fixed it SJ!!!   Now I can read it!  Great points bro!

[khootee]

praise the lord. First off You really need to find time to rehearse with you choir,your'e band and the choir director. You and the director should be on the same page a-team who works together to set the atmoshpere for the The Word to be delivered. This cause for the Lord to do his work through the Preacher.You two have to be on One Accord.

[violist2009]

Meh the really really bad thing is when you are just starting out as a church pianist coming from a classical background where you play what is on the page. And only what is on the page.

And you have like a 65 year old organist and a 42(looked 26) worship leader. I mean the WL would during rehearsal have us transpose to one key and I would learn the song in the key he said during rehearsal. But then on Sunday morning he decides that the song is no longer in a good key. YAY!!!...Y.Y. And they weren't small key changes eiter it was like 4 whole steps down(or to be mean and spiteful i would bring it 5 steps up which is technically the same thing) but anyway, WL and MOM/Choir directors need to do what was done in rehearsal or at least notify the musicians a proper amount of time before the service.

[NJDBalla]

Meh the really really bad thing is when you are just starting out as a church pianist coming from a classical background where you play what is on the page. And only what is on the page.

And you have like a 65 year old organist and a 42(looked 26) worship leader. I mean the WL would during rehearsal have us transpose to one key and I would learn the song in the key he said during rehearsal. But then on Sunday morning he decides that the song is no longer in a good key. YAY!!!...Y.Y. And they weren't small key changes eiter it was like 4 whole steps down(or to be mean and spiteful i would bring it 5 steps up which is technically the same thing) but anyway, WL and MOM/Choir directors need to do what was done in rehearsal or at least notify the musicians a proper amount of time before the service.

I feel your pain, bruh  Right here.
"Puts hand over Heart"

[violist2009]

Yeah when your like the youngest musician in the church it kinda makes things akward when they want to do songs from the 1920's that i've never heard before on the fly. So the organist would just give me the key and then i was on my own xD.

That first time with Jesus on the Mainline was very intresting.

[NJDBalla]

That definately brings back some memories

[mrmusician]

If the MOM is bringing songs that have not been rehearsedor performed in months then what do the new choir members do? Do they just mouth the song or what.

If you perform every week, then rehearsal is a must every week. Rehearsal should consist of songs for the following sunday service.

[NJDBalla]

If the MOM is bringing songs that have not been rehearsedor performed in months then what do the new choir members do? Do they just mouth the song or what.

If you perform every week, then rehearsal is a must every week. Rehearsal should consist of songs for the following sunday service.

Very true.

Lately, I've been laying down the law on the choir directors and the bass player.

I got on the choir director's case a couple of Sundays ago when she pulled a song from the woodworks and it sounded horrible. It had been so long since I had heard or thought about the song and I didn't know what to do, so I didn't play. The bass player tried to play it but his notes were off and there were lots of gaps in the music.

The choir director called me to the back afterwards and told me that God had given me a gift and was telling me to use my ear and such things as that. She said that sometimes the songs that we practiced don't fit the mood of the service and thats why she switched up the songs at the last minute second. She proceeded on to say that I should be professional and try.

My response was that it is not professional to play things you haven't practiced or know. Also, I stated that if I was going to be professional, then she would have to be porfessional as well and stick to the "gameplan".

She then said that she is led by the spirit to have the choir to sing certain songs, whether it has been practiced or not. Singing the wrong songs at the wrong time, even with the right music can block the spirit. Then feeling as if she had won this "debate" she turned and started to walk off.

I retaliated saying that singing the right song at the right time with the terribly wrong music can also block the spirit. People might be paying attention to how wrong the music is and not pay attention to the choir.

She has not spoken to me since... :



My bass player still is not practicing like he should. He has been playing for more than 20 years and I've been playing for about 4 years and I try to talk "theory" with him and hes like,  and in my head I'm like,

He does not know the most common scales(minor(s) , blues, e.t.c.) and I use a lot of these in my playing. He is reliable though, he comes to almost every rehearsal and service(his dad is the pastor), but that doesn't do any good if he isn't learning, practicing the right way. I don't think he listens to the CD's I burn him, which costs me money(iTunes, Blank Discs, e.t.c.). I always have to give him his bass line and this takes a lot of time because he doesn't listen to the CD's, and he doesn't write what I tell him down. So I tried e-mailing his bass line to him, which failed because he doesn't listen to the songs.

So now I'm thinking about just giving him the cold shoulder and let him realize that he needs to practice on his own. I am the MOM but its not like I can fire him, 'cause I don't have that authority, the pastor does. And its not like he's going to get fired 'cause he's the pastor's son.

I don't know what I should do about all this. I mean, I can leave, but thats my home church. All my fam goes there and I can't leave all that behind.

So here is my question, fam, what should I do about all this mess?

[betnich]

How to get people to practice, listen to CD's, plan ahead of time???


Unfortunately, some don't feel the Holy Spirit in the preparation...

 

[sjonathan02]

I don't know what I should do about all this. I mean, I can leave, but thats my home church. All my fam goes there and I can't leave all that behind.

So here is my question, fam, what should I do about all this mess?

You have boxed yourself into a corner. Either you can leave or you can't. It's that simple.



Yes, it is.


God told Abram to leave his kinsmen and go. If he can do it, why can't you? 

[jlewis]

yeah man.... you in a bad situation.

Its like this, it took our pastor coming to the music department and saying that:

1. if a song is not rehearsed well in practice..... do not attempt to play it in a service

2. Everybody is not a solo vocalist.  Please don't give folks who do not have the gift of singing an opportunity to embarass themselves in front of the entire congregation


Basically that took care of MOST of the issues with respect to unprepared songs and  crazy singing.  Now as minister of music,  you might have to pull rank and start picking the songs for sunday service.  Yes its true that may not sit will with the director,  but  if stuff is sounding bad... you gotta do what you have to do.

If your pastor cannot back you in these situations... then basically they don't respect the authority of the position that they have given you.  in that case,  your only option is to "let somebody else do it".

folks get hot with me sometimes ( mostly they are not even affiliated with the choir),  and go to the pastor and say that  the choir should do "such and such".

He typically tells them...  "You need to discuss that with the leader of the music department",   and usually that shuts everything down unless they have a legitimate complaint ( and sometimes they do).

But having the pastor voice his concern on the "quality" of the music went a long way with everyone  within the music  department.   Now our mantra is ,   if it isn't done right.... we just don't do it.

Jlewis

[kodacolor]

yeah man.... you in a bad situation.

Its like this, it took our pastor coming to the music department and saying that:

1. if a song is not rehearsed well in practice..... do not attempt to play it in a service

2. Everybody is not a solo vocalist.  Please don't give folks who do not have the gift of singing an opportunity to embarass themselves in front of the entire congregation


Basically that took care of MOST of the issues with respect to unprepared songs and  crazy singing.  Now as minister of music,  you might have to pull rank and start picking the songs for sunday service.  Yes its true that may not sit will with the director,  but  if stuff is sounding bad... you gotta do what you have to do.

If your pastor cannot back you in these situations... then basically they don't respect the authority of the position that they have given you.  in that case,  your only option is to "let somebody else do it".

folks get hot with me sometimes ( mostly they are not even affiliated with the choir),  and go to the pastor and say that  the choir should do "such and such".

He typically tells them...  "You need to discuss that with the leader of the music department",   and usually that shuts everything down unless they have a legitimate complaint ( and sometimes they do).

But having the pastor voice his concern on the "quality" of the music went a long way with everyone  within the music  department.   Now our mantra is ,   if it isn't done right.... we just don't do it.

Jlewis

Good stuff!  We're going through something like this right now.  IRT the bold part: they think I'm being anal when I say stuff like that.

[sjonathan02]

Good stuff!  We're going through something like this right now.  IRT the bold part: they think I'm being anal when I say stuff like that.

It depends on your definition of 'done right'.


I used to be anal. At first, I thought I wasn't; but, after awhile, I had to learn that everyone isn't going to see/hear it the way I do; but that doesn't mean that God won't get the glory or His people be edified.


Perfect example.


This past Sunday was off the chain, my wife even said so (and she's my HARSHEST critic...another post, another thread). But, after Thursday's rehearsal, I thought I may have worked the team too hard trying to make the sure the notes were correct and such. I wasn't sure.

So, excellence should always be the goal; but, not at the expense of rehearsals becoming drudgery.

[kodacolor]

It depends on your definition of 'done right'.


I used to be anal. At first, I thought I wasn't; but, after awhile, I had to learn that everyone isn't going to see/hear it the way I do; but that doesn't mean that God won't get the glory or His people be edified.


Perfect example.


This past Sunday was off the chain, my wife even said so (and she's my HARSHEST critic...another post, another thread). But, after Thursday's rehearsal, I thought I may have worked the team too hard trying to make the sure the notes were correct and such. I wasn't sure.

So, excellence should always be the goal; but, not at the expense of rehearsals becoming drudgery.

Dude, they think singing on key is a luxtury.  Shoot, one of the leaders said it last week!  It's not that they can't do it, it's that they're to taught to do it. 

[sjonathan02]

Dude, they think singing on key is a luxury.  Shoot, one of the leaders said it last week!  It's not that they can't do it, it's that they're to taught to do it. 

And with that, I officially put down my pen. 

That's just unacceptable, seriously. And, tell them I said so. Singing on key is the LEAST they can do for God.


Tell them to stop giving a 'Cain' praise.  *smh*

[kodacolor]

Tell them to stop giving a 'Cain' praise.  *smh*

   *screams at the top of her lungs in utter excitement!!*

Do you realize that's been my thought for the last month or so?!  OMGosh!  At our next meeting I was thinking about bring up Cain and Abel for this reason!  Yo!!!  ^_^

[sjonathan02]

  *screams at the top of her lungs in utter excitement!!*

Do you realize that's been my thought for the last month or so?!  OMGosh!  At our next meeting I was thinking about bring up Cain and Abel for this reason!  Yo!!!  ^_^

I'mma tell you right now, folks are gonna look at you like you have two heads and try to tell you that you're taking that Biblical account out of context. 


Look at them like this ----> and keep going.