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Author Topic: Please explain what Cadence is...  (Read 5289 times)

Offline Eggs

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« on: January 23, 2005, 10:40:15 PM »
Hi,

I've been reading about Cadence... you know, authentic, deceptive, half, plagal, etc.

I'm still not sure I fully understand what it is.  It seems to combine scale degree progressions and regressions with when the melody ends... so on, and so forth.

Can somebody that knows explain this for me, in a way that I can easily grasp what it is exactly?


Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

Offline B3Wannabe

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2005, 05:21:06 AM »
This is what I found, by doing a search on google:

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textd/Deceptivecadence.html

Offline Eggs

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2005, 07:48:54 AM »
Thanks B3...


I've already done a lot of reading on the web about cadence.  I'm just not sure what it's really referring to, in terms of WHEN and WHERE, in the song.

For example, sometimes a V-I can be a cadence, and sometimes it's not???

I need a little help.


God bless,
Eggs

Offline BroAllan

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CADENCE
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2005, 08:39:25 AM »
HI EGGS!!!  IN MY UNDERSTANDING, CADENCE IS THE WAY YOU END A SONG...  THROUGH DIFFERENT CHORD PROGRESSIONS, RHYTHM AND TIMING, YOU CAN CHANGE THE FEEL OF WHICH THE SONG ENDS...
                                 GOD BLESS YOU... BroALLAN

Offline Eggs

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2005, 09:53:02 AM »
Thanks for the reply BroAllan!,

So,

Is it just the ending of the song?  From what I've read cadence exists elsewhere in the piece.


God bless,
Eggs

Offline aljeres

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2005, 05:00:08 PM »
Quote from: Eggs
Thanks for the reply BroAllan!,

So,

Is it just the ending of the song?  From what I've read cadence exists elsewhere in the piece.


God bless,
Eggs






IT'S CALLED PLAYING OUT OF THE KEY!
gieres.....

god is greatly to be praised!!!!!!!!!

Offline Eggs

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2005, 12:59:11 PM »
What exactly do you mean by "playing out of the key"?
Please help me understand.


Thanks,
Eggs

Offline Jniles_NCF

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2005, 01:22:07 PM »
well just playing around with some of the chords that they had on the site that B3 gave if you play a decpetive cadence and then a plagal cadence it kind of sounds like a song. the coresponding chords would be 5-6-4-1 use them however you see fit i knwo i am going to.
God doesn't want your gifts. He wants your life...

Offline bug

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Cadence
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2005, 04:50:30 PM »
Somehow I feel you know the answer to this question, but want to find out if other people in this users group know the answer.

A cadence is harmonic motion.  The movement may express a tonality, or it may transition away from a tonality.  The movement might contrast the tonality or reestablish a tonality.  

A cadence comes after several interchanges between chords.  However some songs are so simple (nursery ryhmes, folk songs) until the only harmonic movement in the song is a couple of cadences.

The harmonic motion stops at the end of the cadence, unless it is a Deceptive Cadence.  The Deceptive Cadence is like question mark at the end of a sentence.

The Authentic cadence is like a period at the end of a sentence.  The Plagal Cadence is like a period at the end of a sentence, but says "AMEN", then stops.

I was told, but I don't know if it is true, that centuries ago congregations did not sing hymns.  The choir members sang the hymns, because the people in the congregations sounded so bad and unseemly in the early Protestant Church.  Music production was left to a select number of people.  After the hymn was finished, the congregation was allowed to sing "AMEN". The amen part of the song was usually a Plagal Cadence to be sang after the hymn.  If you listen carefully to a Plagal Cadence, it does sound as if the two chords are saying "AMEN".  The Authentic Cadence is a variation of the "AMEN", and the Deceptive Cadence says, "I fooled ya".  There is more music to come.

I hope this breaks the question down into a simple answer which is easy to understand.

brother scott
The greatest mistake most amateur musicians make is giving up.  Don't give up !!!

Offline Eggs

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2005, 08:53:29 AM »
bug and others,

Thanks for all your help.  I assure you, that I do not know the answer to my question, and would never ask a question that I know the answer to on purpose.  That would be a deception, and a waste of everybody's time.  I would never do that.

When I was a kid, I marched in parades, and someone would call the "cadence", that we would march to.  I have never had any formal musical training except for a couple of guitar lessons during grade school.
So I've always associated cadence with timing.  I think this is why I'm having trouble associating it with chord movements.

I'm not sure that I really need to understand it, but I like learning and understanding as much about what I'm doing as I can.  

Bug, your last post has helped to break it down for me.

Thank you all again... please keep it coming.

God bless,
Eggs

Offline bug

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cadence
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 08:13:17 PM »
When I played high school band my band director would ask drummers to play a cadence also.

I believe it has a different definition when applied to drumming.

Music theory has a different definition.  I was trained to be an instrumental band teacher at Indiana University.  However I wound up teaching vocal music to elementary aged children, because that is what the school system needed at the time.

I am qualified to teach instrumental as well as vocal music to children K-12.

I did teach for over twenty years and am retiring at this time because jobs seem to be at a premium at this time.

I played Jazz and other types of live music on the side while teaching for several decades.  I plan to substitute teach while drawing my retirement now, while living in Michigan.  Let me share this information with you regarding cadence.  I believe this explanation will really clear up any confusion you have on harmonic cadence.

If you have the money and resources, please buy The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization.  This book was written by George Russell.  It was written in 1953  by a bastard son of a white man who was a professor of music at Oberlin University.  His mother was black.  George describes a profound thought in this treatise about Jazz Music, which can be applied to Gospel Music as well.  The book describes a "River Trip" explanation of Jazz Improvisational Styles.  I am going to use his idea, and mix it with mine to explain harmonic cadence.  I believe that the idea of cadence will be easily understood after this explanation.  If not please write to me for further explanation.

Let's take a large river, like the Mississippi for example, and call it a tune.  Now suppose the small towns along its shores are chords, and the larger towns are not only chords, but tonic stations as well.  (Tonic stations are points in any chord-built composition to which two or more chords tend to resolve. This is where you have a cadence.  The big over all tonic station would be the key in which the music is written.)

The Mississippi river is the key of Aflat.  (See George's book pp. xviii-xix).  We start in a big city like St. Louis on F minor for a measure of four beats, then we flow to some small towns for a measure of Bflat minor7th for four beats and E flat 7th for four beats, before we land at another big city called Memphis on A flat Major for a measure of four beats.  Memphis is a Tonic Station.  The Eflat 7th to Aflat Major is an Authentic Cadence.  Now we flow on to Dflat Major for four beats then F Major for four beats, to New Orleans on a CMajor for four beats.  This is a Plagal Cadence of F to C.  New Orleans is another Tonic Station.  The tune continues to more progressions.  Some chords are going to small towns, others stop at big cities. Cadences come only at big cities.

The stopping points are cadence points.  They are necessary to identify the tune.  The other chords are necessary, but do not identify the tune.  Finally the tune comes to a final cadence in A flat where the flow of the tune is finished.

This is the easiest explanation I can think of for explaning cadence without drawing you a picture.

His book is not expensive for a musician who really has a desire to learn.  I copied it from a friend for free back in the early 1980's.  It cost maybe $30.00 then.  It might cost $50-$100 now.  However that is cheap for the information that it contains.

This information is a mixture of my mind and his in explanation of cadence.  He was trying to explain horizontal and vertical melodies as composed by several of the leading jazz saxophonists of the 40's and 50's.  I am using it to explain chord progression in Gospel Music of the 1990's to the present.

I had the pleasure of studying with one of Russell's leading disciples, Dr. David N. Baker at Indiana University, during the 1970's.

I am not a disciple or a fan of Dave Baker's music however.  I find it far too abstract for my tastes. I include these names not to impress, but only for the sake of letting you know that these are not my thoughts only, but are based upon the thoughts of other men of learned expertise in music as well as my own.  I am not delusional.  I thank God for my own sound mind and thoughts which are garnered from other profound thinkers.  I merely add my own two cents.

humbly submitted,

brother scott
The greatest mistake most amateur musicians make is giving up.  Don't give up !!!

Offline Eggs

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2005, 06:03:10 PM »
Bug,

Thanks for the advice, and the reference, as well as the lesson.  I will consider buying the book.

God bless,
Eggs

Offline bug

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Repentance and apology are necessary
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2005, 06:58:46 PM »
In my discussion of Mr. Russell's background I used a common word which many people may find offensive.

It awakened me from a sound sleep, as my conscience began to tell me that the comment was inappropriate, particularly in a discussion about music for the church.

I repent openly to God and before men.  I am sorry for using the word.

I ask for forgiveness to all who might read my post on cadences.

I admire Mr. George Russell's contribution to music.  He indeed is one of my role models.

sincerely,

brother scott
The greatest mistake most amateur musicians make is giving up.  Don't give up !!!

Offline csedwards2

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Please explain what Cadence is...
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2005, 12:53:12 AM »
Authentic cadences are either perfect or plagal
Perfect cadence is V-I
Plagal is IV-I (amen)
Deceptive is V-(somewhere other than I ie.. V-vi)
Half is (anything going to V chord.. ie.. ii-V)


These are the most commone cadences
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