1-4-5's and 2-5-1's where exactly do they come in.

[Eman7]

I don't completely understand 1-4-5's and 2-5-1's. I know 2-5-1's usually comes in during a end of a song and during the end of versus, and what  about 1-4-5's. where do they fit. As a beggining musician, how often should I practice and what exactly do I practice.

[musmin7]

You're correct that you can use the 2-5-1 at the end for turn arounds but it can be used in other places as well it can be used in the beginning of a song or durring the verse It's bassed on the circle of 5ths

the 1-4-5 is used at the begining of a great deal of worship songs like

1. Praise is what I do
2. Because of who you are
3. I really love the lord

and many more
practice those two progressions in every key and listen closly to some cd's you'll began to here them played all over the place.

let me know if I can be of more assistance
be blessed

[daredarea]

IS this a good example for the 1-4-5 progression(just by the notes)

C

C-F-G

C#

C#-F#-G#


I'm sorry I get confused with these things too...Please help

[gtsjames]

You're correct that you can use the 2-5-1 at the end for turn arounds but it can be used in other places as well it can be used in the beginning of a song or durring the verse It's bassed on the circle of 5ths

the 1-4-5 is used at the begining of a great deal of worship songs like

1. Praise is what I do
2. Because of who you are
3. I really love the lord

and many more
practice those two progressions in every key and listen closly to some cd's you'll began to here them played all over the place.

let me know if I can be of more assistance
be blessed

How are those progressions or any progressions related to the circle of 5ths? I thought the circle of 5ths was just a way to learn chord in different keys, or am I missing the big picture  :?

[Davelong]

a good song to practiced these chords is the song  "Felice Navidad" (i'm sure I spelled that wrong).  The chords to the verse the progression:

 "4-5-1-1"   over and over ("Felice Navidad"),
 and the verse is identical! ("I want to wish you a merry Christmas...")

In the key of C Major, the chords 4-5-1 are:

F Major, G Major and C Major.

Other chords can be used, but the 4-5-1 works just fine.

[aljeres]

I don't completely understand 1-4-5's and 2-5-1's. I know 2-5-1's usually comes in during a end of a song and during the end of versus, and what  about 1-4-5's. where do they fit. As a beggining musician, how often should I practice and what exactly do I practice.

2-5-1 is a group of chords, that make up 1 of  4 basic progressions used in a song!

1-4-5's      are not!!!!!

those are individual chords; used at separate times to play a song!...also known as the three basic chords of any song in the world!!!!!
ex:
key; c

C/CEG - A- MAZEING GRACE, HOW - 1
F/FAC - SWEET, THE  - 4
C/CEG - SOUND, THAT.   - 1
C/CEG - SAVED A WRECH LIKE   - 1
G/GBD  - ME ; I  -  5
C/CEG - ONCE WAS LOST, BUT  -  1
F/FAC - NOW, I'M   -  4
C/CEG  - FOUND, WAS  -  1
C/CEG  - BLIND, BUT   - 1
G/GBD - NOW, I   -  5
C/ CEG - SEE   -  1

[musmin7]

How are those progressions or any progressions related to the circle of 5ths? I thought the circle of 5ths was just a way to learn chord in different keys, or am I missing the big picture

gtsjames,
No you're not missing the big picture. But you must realize that every thing you do in practice can be put to use in you playing some time.

I try to teach people ways to associate certain things about theory in a way that may make it easier to use in their playing.(though somtimes I'm the only one who can see it that way :lol: ) But I'll try to explain.
As you know the circle of 5ths takes you from one key to another in a very harmonious way but it also alows you to move within the structure of the key your playing in. In most cases other than abstract music at some point you will have to travel from the 1 to the 5. To do that you use chords or notes that are called passing tones. You can always accent with a passing tone from one half interval/step above or below the point you want to get to,  the 1-4-5 progression starts on the 1 and resolves on the 5 the 4 can be part of the melody/harmony but essentially becomes a passing tone/chord to get you from where you started and where you want to end up.
think of the term progression (to move or to go forward, further or higher) .

Now some people call it the circle of 4ths because your going to the 4th in the scale degree and some call it circle of 5ths because your counting in intervals of 5 half steps. I've always called it the circle of fiths This is one reason I relate it to the circ of 5ths.
in the 145 progression you use the circ of 5ths you go from the 1 to the 5th interval (half steps) and then to the 5th scale degree. The fith scale degree ofcourse takes you back to the one by going up another five intervals (half steps). Or to start your 251 by going down 5 intervals (half steps) which then takes you back to your starting position by going up 5 intervals twice. So you see all you've really done is the circle of fiths

C-Fmaj-G7 Dm7-G7-Cmaj7   145 251  

I hope this answers your question. I'll stop here and if you need more just let me know and I'll try to explain further.
hope this helps
be blessed




Now try this the next time you practice useing the circle of 5ths,

Go from Cmaj7 to Gb7 to Fmaj7 to G7
and do that consecutivly in every key just to spice up your circle of fiths exercise time.

[sjonathan02]

Hey Aljeres,

2-5-1 is a group of chords, that make up 1 of 4 basic progressions used in a song!


What are the other three, if I may ask?

Thanks, in advance
Jonathan

[Eggs]

I think this is a subjective answer... and I know I'll be probably be wrong... but I can't resist taking a crack at that one... so here goes:

1-4-1
1-5-1
5-1-3

I know there are others, but 5-1-3 seems contemporary to me... and I like it a lot.

Gieres?

God bless,
Eggs

[aljeres]

Hey Aljeres,

2-5-1 is a group of chords, that make up 1 of 4 basic progressions used in a song!


What are the other three, if I may ask?

Thanks, in advance
Jonathan

you have the: 251.....736.....514......362......put these together, and you can play anything!

[sjonathan02]

Gieres!!!!


I'm going to take you at your word, G!! Wish me luck and pray for a brotha!!


Jonathan

[Eggs]

Gieres,


So basically, you're saying the you can play anything with the circle of fourths/fifths, with the exception of the 5-1-4 right?


God bless,
Eggs

[4hisglory]

A 5 - 1 - 4 is a 2 5 1.

You can really boil it down to 2 progressins:

1.   Major 2 5 1
2.  Minor 2 5 1

Lest look at the 5 1 4 in the key of C

5 = G
1 = C
4 = F


buuuttttt now, lets look at a 2 5 1 in the key of F
2 = G
5 = C
1 = F

See any similarities???  This is why playing in all keys is important.

[Eggs]

4hisglory,


I'm afraid I don't see how this helps me...  I've been known to be a little
thick sometimes, so please explain...

Are you saying this helps for modulation purposes?  I just don't see how a 2-5-1 in F helps me with a 5-1-4 in C?


God bless,
Eggs

[sjonathan02]

Hey Eggs:

Now, I could be waaaaay off base, but perhaps one thing about recognizing that a 5-1-4 in C is a 2-5-1 in F is for transposition during a song or transition between songs. Also, of course if you can recognize a particular progression in one key, it makes it easier to figure out a song in another key (using the same examples).

Again, I'm probably waaaaaay off base with this, but that's why we're here, right??


JOnathan

[Eggs]

Ok.....


But if I were moving a song from C to F, I would move a 2-5-1 as a 2-5-1.
In other words, I'd play a D-G-C as a G-C-F, not as a D-G-C again....

Now, if you are talking about keeping a run as the same notes or something, that's different.  I can see how that helps.

Can someone help me out, if I'm missing something here?


Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

[aljeres]

Gieres,


So basically, you're saying the you can play anything with the circle of fourths/fifths, with the exception of the 5-1-4 right?


God bless,
Eggs

im not sure exactly what you're saying, so i'll say this.......you can play anything you want, if you know the circle of fourths, and fifths, and by knowing the four basic progressions!

[aljeres]

4hisglory,


I'm afraid I don't see how this helps me...  I've been known to be a little
thick sometimes, so please explain...

Are you saying this helps for modulation purposes?  I just don't see how a 2-5-1 in F helps me with a 5-1-4 in C?


God bless,
Eggs

i had to get at this one......glory is correct in what he said, however, it is an advance theroy of thinking! someone taught him to look at it like that! and you will have to be as well.......

the fact of the matter is, unless you are able to really see the scales, as in more than one at a time, you will not understand this......when i am in one scale, i am actually playing in several others as well!.....this is indeed how the pros do it! but it is a mystery to those who have not been playing long enough, infact it totally looses em......lol

this is why i say if you no them, you can play anything you want......but those are only ways to move in fourths around the board! you have to learn how to walk, as well as build progressions......to really put it together!

[Eggs]

Gieres,


I understand the concept perfectly.... but with regard to the application?
I'm totally lost... just like you said.  8O

How the pros do what?

Anybody else?


God bless,
Eggs

[sjonathan02]

Gieres

What do you mean by "playing in other scales at the same time"?

Jonathan