1-4-5's and 2-5-1's where exactly do they come in.

[Eggs]

Gieres,


Great!  Thanks!  I can't wait.  But while I'm waiting I have two questions:

1.  What happens on a minor scale degree?  Let's say I'm in Db major, and I want to move to my 3 from my 7.  If I use a 3-6-2-5-1 to get there, would I use Ab major for the 3?

2.  If I'm understanding this correctly, the chord that I'm playing is contexted by the chord I play next.  In other words, C major is dominant, if I play G major next?... and so on?

[sjonathan02]

Hiya Eggs:

My brotha you have me confused. If you start in any key, say Db, and move from to the 3 from your 7, you're already in the start of a 7-3-6...progression ( at least as I understand it).

Are you asking if there is (what I'll call) a "mini-progression" going from 7-3?

And, you're second question has me completely befuddled; but I like it!!!

Lata, man
Jonathan

[aljeres]

Gieres,


Great!  Thanks!  I can't wait.  But while I'm waiting I have two questions:

1.  What happens on a minor scale degree?  Let's say I'm in Db major, and I want to move to my 3 from my 7.  If I use a 3-6-2-5-1 to get there, would I use Ab major for the 3?

2.  If I'm understanding this correctly, the chord that I'm playing is contexted by the chord I play next.  In other words, C major is dominant, if I play G major next?... and so on?

thanks for the question!!!!  

no! is the answer.....your idea of useing the 3-6-2-5-1 would be premised off of where you're going, in this case, you're going to the 3 ( f ) so you're progression to get there based off of what we're talking about would start off of the 3 of the scale you're going to....which is A..... NOW; YOU DO A 3-6-2-5-1....STARTING WITH A  BEING THE THIRD SCALE DEGREE, AND YOU WILL END UP ON YOUR 3 IN DbM....BUT! YOU WILL NEED TO STILL PLAY A MINOR CHORD WHEN YOU GET THERE!.......NOW THIS WILL SOUND FUNNY, AND STRANGE, BUT WILL DO THE JOB, AND WELL IF DONE WITHIN THE TIME FRAME!!!!

[aljeres]

OK! EVERYONE, I HAVE AN AUDIO CLIP......IT'S ABOUT 11MINS LONG, DESCRIBING WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT!  ANYONE WHO WANTS IT SENT TO THEM CAN EMAIL ME AT ALGIERES@YAHOO.COM AND I WILL BE GLAD TO SEND IT TO YOU.......

I AM WRITING UP ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YOUR LIBRARIES AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I AM DONE!  AND LIKEWISE I WILL SEND IT TO YOU!

HOLLA!

[Eggs]

Thanks Gieres!


I follow you.  But are you saying that you always use a MAJOR scale for your "secondary" progressions?  Even if you start on a MINOR scale degree?


Hey, don't forget to post that example!  


Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

[aljeres]

Thanks Gieres!


I follow you.  But are you saying that you always use a MAJOR scale for your "secondary" progressions?  Even if you start on a MINOR scale degree?


Hey, don't forget to post that example!  


Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

NO! IT'S UP TO YOU...........THEIR ARE TWO THINGS YOU CAN DO;

1) -   YOU CAN PLAY IN THE BOX

2)  - YOU PLAY OUT OF THE BOX


I DO BOTH...............A LOT OF PEOPLE PLAY WELL WITHIN THE BOX!

THE PROS ALMOST ALL THE TIME PLAY OUT OF THE BOX ENTIRELY!

SO IF I CHOOSE A MAJOR SCALE, IT'S OUT OF THE BOX.........BUT I WANT TO CHALLENGE YOU A LITTLE......WELL A LOT!

TRY THINKING OF IT LIKE THIS!........LOOK AT THE BOARD FROM THE LEFT TO THE RIGHT!

AND INSTEAD OF LOOKING SO HARD AT THE CHORDS!.......I WANT YOU TO ALMOST THINK LIKE A CHILD.......AND ONE PATICULAR WHO KNOWS VERY LITTLE IF NOT ANY AT ALL ABOUT THE BOARD!


NOW IF I SAID JONNIE! I WANT YOU TO GO FROM C   TO  F......JONNIE WOULDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO......SO HE WOULD DO ANYTHING......

SO WHAT I AM SAYING IS JUST LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL NOTES ON THE BOARD AND SAY TO YOURSELF....( WHO HAS AN ADVANTAGE ON JONNIE ) WHAT CHORDS DO I KNOW NO MATTER WHAT KEY THEY ARE IN, TO PLAY TO ALLOW ME TO GO FROM C TO  F .......

NOW YOU HAVE PROBABLY NEVER THOUGHT LIKE THIS.......BECAUSE IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE!

I AM NOT ASKING YOU FOR A LOGICAL REASONING WHEN YOU DO THIS!....I JUST WANT YOU TO DO IT!


THIS IS THE HARDEST THING IN THE WORLD FOR A BEGINNER AND MOST INTERMEDIATES TO DO.......BUT THE PROS DO IT ALL THE TIME AND WE MARVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!1


I AM WRITING SOMETHING UP NOW......BUT IMA LET YOU SEE THIS, AND IT WILL GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT I DO FOR THOSE PROGRESSIONS WHEN I GET READY! KEEP THIS IN YA LIBRARY....


Let’s look at some common prgressions; done the way I do them……..


Key;Ab
CHORDED BY ALGIERES
LH = LEFT HAND
RH = RIGHT HAND
…… = CONTINUATION OF CHORD
( # ) =   FLATTED NBR,


OK LET’S GET STARTED….

THIS IS KNOWN AS A 1 TO THE 4 WALK AND IT’S COMMON, BUT NOT SO MUCH LIKE THIS….THIS IS HOW I MIGHT DO IT……I HAVE SEVERAL WAYS!!!!

LH/RH

AbCEb/GBbCEb – 1

BbF/AbCC#F – 2

CEBb/CEbAb – 3

C#FAb/CEbFAb – 4


NOW, LET’S DO A 2 TO THE 5 PROGRESSION….MY WAY!

BbF/AbCC#F – 2

CG/BbDEbG – 3

C#FAb/CEbFAb – 4

DAb/CDFAb – ( 5 )

EbGBb/C#FBb – 5


NOW LET’S TURN AROUND WITH THE WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE 3 TO 6 PROGRESSION!!!!

START WITH THESE INDIVIDUAL NOTES…..DO WITH BOTH HANDS….

LH/RH

Eb, D, C#, …….

CG/BbCEG – 6

CAb/CDFAb – ( 5 )

Ebb/C#EFBb – ( 6 )

FAbC/EbGBb – 6

NOW WE WILL HEAD TO THE HOUSE WITH A WHAT IS KNOWN AS; A 3- 6 – 2 PROGRESSION….. WHICH IS A BRIDGE TYPE OF PROGRESSION…….

CBb/EAbBbEb…..C#     ( SLIDE LAST FINGER TO LEFT TO  C# )- 3

FEb/AC#EbAb….F#        SAME AS OTHER!  -- 6

BbC#F/AbCEb…..F  (  SLIDE LAST FINGER RT, FOR   F )  -- 2

AND NOW WE WANT TO GO HOME WITH A COMMON 2-5-1 PROGRESSION…


BbAb (IN THIS ORDER )/ C#FAbC – 2

EbGBb/C#FGC  -- 5

AbG/CEbGBb – 1

NOW YOU HAVE TO GET USE TO THE SOUND; BUT IF YOU KEEP DOING IT, YOU’LL GET USED TO IT!!!!!!!!!! DON’T QUIT ON YOURSELF!!!

[aljeres]

ok, here is the link, as promised!......and im still sending to anyone who wants it!.......but you can hear it here!



http://www.brownfloyd.com/gallery/displayimage-48-0.html

[B3Wannabe]

It seems you uploaded ok.  :wink:  Nice little clip.  

[GSDVSAX]

1 4 5's or I IV V      
ex key of C

C E G   F A C   G B D   these are all major chords in C maj.  the only  
 1            4         5      major chords  in a given major key are the 1 4 5  

2 3 6 or ii  iii  vi  are the minor chords in a given major key

 d f a    e g b   a c e    

the 7 degree which a chord is built on in a mojor key is a diminish chord
vii
b d f    

intervals
maj 3 + min3 = MAJOR CHORD
min 3 + maj3 = minor chord
min 3 + min3 = diminish chord (half diminish)

in your post it seemed as if you wanted to know the functions of the chords and how they are placed to gether in music to create music
r atleast how those chords work

email me at gabrielvaughn@hotmail.com and i will try my best to assist you

may God bless you

[Eggs]

Gieres,


Excellent... Excellent... Excellent!   I can't wait to get at my board.
But if you would, please verify the following chords:

(Moving from 1 to 2 in Bb major)

(2-5-1 in C):         Dm        G       Cm
(7-3-6 in Eb):        Ddim     Gm     Cm

Are these the basic chords you were using in there?

Also, is there a finite list of relationships between scale degrees?
i.e. does a 2-5-1 always equal a 7-3-6 somewhere?... or can any progression be any other progression?  Is there some sort of chart for this? (I hope I'm being clear on my question)

Thanks for all your help,
God bless,
Eggs

[4hisglory]

I must say, that is a nice little lesson.  I immediately printed off my little progression chart

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/ebooks/charts.pdf
page 3.

So I can look at the relationships in all the keys (since I cant see them al yet).

[Eggs]

Gieres!,


Are you still out there?  It would really help me a lot if you could take a look at my previous questions!


Thanks, and
God bless,
Eggs

[aljeres]

Gieres,


Excellent... Excellent... Excellent!   I can't wait to get at my board.
But if you would, please verify the following chords:

(Moving from 1 to 2 in Bb major)

(2-5-1 in C):         Dm        G       Cm
(7-3-6 in Eb):        Ddim     Gm     Cm

Are these the basic chords you were using in there?

Also, is there a finite list of relationships between scale degrees?
i.e. does a 2-5-1 always equal a 7-3-6 somewhere?... or can any progression be any other progression?  Is there some sort of chart for this? (I hope I'm being clear on my question)

Thanks for all your help,
God bless,
Eggs

ok, yes those are the basic progressions i used in the clip! and yes and no! to your second question!

this is why!

now on a more advanced theory; you can do what you want whenevr you want, as long as you can remember it!.......

in other words, it's because i have memorized the progressions in every key........not only that, but there are substitutes for every chord i have also memorized! and not only that, i have memorized all the rules, that apply to a chord!.......like depending on the purpose of the chord, their are rules to apply.......so what i can do is, totally make up a progression, and i can call it a 2-5-1 progression!......now this is on a more advanced theory!...

yes, i have a book of chords showing all substitutes! for a small fee! and it shows you how you can play a regular chord like a CM chord and it's substitutions......you still would have to memorize this stuff!!!!!!! lol it takes time, i feel well worth it!

now what can ahppen to your playing by understanding it as i do?


1 - you will develope you own sound......
2 - your own progressions..( i dare say; noone plays like you )
3 - ( gods nbr of completetion ) you don't ever have to sound like the next guy ever, ever, everrrrrrrrrr again!  and ima a living example!!!!!

if you listen to a lot of people, you honestly have to agree, most sound alike! allthough i agree, to some extent, you have to do some things alike, because it is so.......you just can't tear up a hymn when you get ready! you will insult it! and offend others!

but!

when you understand it like i do.....you have total control, of what you want to do! notice i said ( YOU WANT TO DO.....YOU, YOU, YOU ) it's all up to you!

ya see, i'm showing you how to create!

now that's what the deference is between a person who is playing the piano or organ, or keyboard, and  someone who is really able to play like a pro, or soon to be by faith!

anyone can copy another person to the letter!
but it takes someone special to be able to design, or create it!

think of being able to do what you want, and not feeling like my lack thereof is dictating to me!

in otherwords, i have the power to be at a level i really desire! because when you finally UNDERSTAND this theory! it comes down to these few things, and nothing else!!!!

faithfulness - to the craft!
diligence -   to the craft!
work ethics - to the craft!
daily -    you have to do it everyday! no less than five days a week!
focus-  on this craft....( more than probably any other passion )

if you could talk to a professional, he wouldnt say anything less than i just said!, you have to hunger this! want it!, ya see and ya mind will begin to come up with ways to get it!

now notice i didnt say a word about god!

most if not all know we cannot do anything without god!......but now listen! dont get mad when i say this!!!!!

if you don't put ya time in on a craft or gift that god has given ya; i believe god sits back and waits on ya!

we have to study, to show ourselves.....i'm not trying to preach, but i am saying, people talk about the annointing, and sometimes i think they think god is also stupid! like god doesnt believe in colleges, or schools of reformations......but god is the first, to take us to school! god is a god of education, and he is all knowing!, so now why would he make someone the best, and baddest, and they don't practice, dont study, don't even really believe the word!..........now i'm not saying it's not possible!.....all i am saying is......i aint sitting around wating on that kind of annointing....lol  im a do sumtin to occupy!

[T-Block]

Here are some examples of different types of progressions. I am going to put them in Eb cuz that's my favorite key:

7-3-6

F,Eb / F,G (single notes)
D / C-F-Ab (7)
G / B-Eb-F-Bb (3)
C / C-Eb-G (6)

2-5-1

F / B-Eb-F-Ab (2)
F / Bb-Eb-G OR G / Bb-Eb-G
F / B-Eb-F-Ab OR Ab / B-Eb-F-Ab
Bb / Bb-Eb-G (5)
Bb / Ab-Bb-Eb-F (5) *Eb is suspended
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-F (5) *Eb slides to D
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1)

Here is 7-3-6 & 2-5-1 together

F,Eb / F,G (single notes)
D / C-F-Ab (7)
G / B-Eb-F-Bb (3)
C / C-Eb-G (6)
F / B-Eb-F-Ab (2)
F / Bb-Eb-G OR G / Bb-Eb-G
F / B-Eb-F-Ab OR Ab / B-Eb-F-Ab
Bb / Bb-Eb-G (5)
Bb / Ab-Bb-Eb-F (5) *Eb is suspended
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-F (5) *Eb slides to D
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1)

Now I bet yall probably wondering where u can use this. I use these chords to play the slow congregational "Yes Lord" song. If u don't believe me, here it is:

Yes Lord
Eb / G-Bb-Eb
F / F-Ab-Eb
Gb / Gb-A-Eb
G / G-Bb-Eb
Yes
Ab / Ab-C-Eb Lord
A / Gb-A-C-Eb
Yes Lord
F,Eb / F,G (single notes)
D / C-F-Ab (7)
G / B-Eb-F-Bb (3)
C / C-Eb-G (6)
Yes
F / B-Eb-F-Ab (2)
F / Bb-Eb-G OR G / Bb-Eb-G
F / B-Eb-F-Ab OR Ab / B-Eb-F-Ab
Bb / Bb-Eb-G (5) Lord
Yes
Bb / Ab-Bb-Eb-F (5) *Eb is suspended
Bb / Ab-Bb-D-F (5) *Eb slides to D
Eb / G-Bb-Eb (1) Lord
Tritone ending:
Gb / E-Bb-Eb
F / Eb-A-Eb
Bb / D-Ab-Eb
Eb / Db-G-C-Eb

If anyone needs anymore help just holla at ya boy!!!

[Eggs]

Gieres,


Thanks for the reply.  I'm feelin' ya.
My question was really about progressions like 2-5-1 being a 7-3-6 etc., but I guess that is really a type of substitution anyway.  And your point is that I can substitute whatever I want, when I want anyway.

This is good stuff.

I can't be the only one with questions/comments on this!  Is anybody else following this?


God bless,
Eggs

[4hisglory]

Wow...this is an excellent example.  Thanks

[T-Block]

If u play the chords from the post of "Yes Lord" I did, listen to Bishop Paul S. Morton's CD Let it Rain and listen to track number 4.  It starts off with "I Need Thee" then goes into "Yes Lord".  This is where I got my chords from. The CD has it in the Key of B, but I play it in Eb.

[sjonathan02]

WOW!! A brotha goes on vacation (well, not really just home from teaching for a week, but without a computer) and misses A LOT of information. Looks like I'll get to catch up on my reading and playing tonight.

And, no Eggs, you aren't the only one with questions; I've got to process first.

Here's one quick question, Gieres, does a 2-5-1 ALWAYS fit when going from 1-4? I tried it in the congregational song "Amen" and it didn't seem to fit.

Thanks all,
Jonathan

[aljeres]

WOW!! A brotha goes on vacation (well, not really just home from teaching for a week, but without a computer) and misses A LOT of information. Looks like I'll get to catch up on my reading and playing tonight.

And, no Eggs, you aren't the only one with questions; I've got to process first.

Here's one quick question, Gieres, does a 2-5-1 ALWAYS fit when going from 1-4? I tried it in the congregational song "Amen" and it didn't seem to fit.

Thanks all,
Jonathan

two things are critical;

1 - timeing.......how much time in between where comeing and where your going?

2 - are you useing proper voicings?


i am not sure if you are talking about the common song most use in departure! im from a pentacostal church!

or if you.re refering to a medium tempo or fast, or slow way! but the  suggestion alone of going from the 1 to the 4 would suggest that a 2 to the 5 progression in another key scale would work!.............

rem**** the sound wont be the same! so it is a sound you get used to doing, remember this isnt about so much of what you hear, we already know it is challenging to the ear! but if i am wanting to be a little defferent with my playing, which is to say, a little deferent in my sound!....then that's what happenes....chk out my newest clip!

i already posted it! be blessed!

[Eggs]

Hey Gieres,


Looks like that new clip you loaded sort of replaced the audio clip you had there.... that was a great audio clip!

BTW, you are awesome man.  You have been a great help to me.
How can I see a sample of one of your videos?



God bless,
Eggs