How you know when you are good...

[Rjthakid]

By your definition, does that mean that a musician who doesn't play by ear will never be "good?"

My definition of "good" was based on Gospel Musicians.  I don't think you can apply general requirements across all genres.

The criterion for being a good Gospel Musician and being a good Classical Pianist are COMPLETELY different.

I doubt many Classical Pianists can do what a top flight Gospel Keyboard player can do.

I also doubt many (If ANY) Gospel Keyboard players can do what a top flight Classical Pianist can do.

[jonesl78]

I play alright, but I wont consider myself "good" until I can hang with the "big boys"
[/quote]

This is sort of my definition without getting too technical. If you can understand and interpret another musician's playing that you admire and somewhat immulate what they are playing, then that is a decent measuring tool of your ability.

[LaylaMonroe]

My definition of "good" was based on Gospel Musicians.  I don't think you can apply general requirements across all genres.

The criterion for being a good Gospel Musician and being a good Classical Pianist are COMPLETELY different.

I doubt many Classical Pianists can do what a top flight Gospel Keyboard player can do.

I also doubt many (If ANY) Gospel Keyboard players can do what a top flight Classical Pianist can do.

Thanks.  That wasn't clear at first, but I was hoping there was more to your answer than met the eye. 

And on the part in bold, I agree.

[under13]

My definition of "good" was based on Gospel Musicians.  I don't think you can apply general requirements across all genres.

The criterion for being a good Gospel Musician and being a good Classical Pianist are COMPLETELY different.

I doubt many Classical Pianists can do what a top flight Gospel Keyboard player can do.

I also doubt many (If ANY) Gospel Keyboard players can do what a top flight Classical Pianist can do.

I agree. but guys like Derrick jackson would put some of these uppity classical folks to shame,

[Rjthakid]

I agree. but guys like Derrick jackson would put some of these uppity classical folks to shame,

It REALLY depends on the arena.

In the classical arena, he wouldn't stand a chance.  The speed and dexterity of a Top Classical Pianist is the result of thousands of hours of scales and finger exercises.  Not to mention a World Class Classical Pianist would be able to read music far better than Derick Jackson.

However if it was a SHED, things would be different...

[sjonathan02]

It REALLY depends on the arena.

In the classical arena, he wouldn't stand a chance.  The speed and dexterity of a Top Classical Pianist is the result of thousands of hours of scales and finger exercises.  Not to mention a World Class Classical Pianist would be able to read music far better than Derick Jackson.

However if it was a SHED, things would be different...

Are you saying all of this, in general? Meaning, are you saying that because a top classical pianist may not spend much time in the gospel arena that, generally, they couldn't measure up to a top flight Gospel pianist?

[musallio]

Are you saying all of this, in general? Meaning, are you saying that because a top classical pianist may not spend much time in the gospel arena that, generally, they couldn't measure up to a top flight Gospel pianist?

mhhh

interesting.

[Rjthakid]

Are you saying all of this, in general? Meaning, are you saying that because a top classical pianist may not spend much time in the gospel arena that, generally, they couldn't measure up to a top flight Gospel pianist?

I was speaking about Derick Jackson in particular.

Things like big fat full chords, blazing runs, and jazzy voicings carry more weight in Gospel than they do in the Classical arena.

In a Gospel music setting with a Top Classical Pianist, I think Derick would excell in a Gospel music setting more than a Classical Pianist would.  It's really an improvisational atmosphere, and not all Classical Pianists can improvise.  Those who study jazz can.  Those who don't, can't.  And even those who study jazz may be able to improvise a song they know, but can't listen to a song one time and pick it up.

Experience is the best teacher.

Many gospel musicians, while in a service, are forced to hear a song one time through and then try to play it.  Because of this a Gospel musician who's been playing in church services for 20+ years would be better able to pick up a song after hearing it once through.  They'd also be better improvisors because of this.

Things like Sight Reading, articulation, and technique carry more weight in classical than they do in the Gospel arena.

As clean and crisp as Derick Jackson sounds to US, to the ear of a Classical Pianist it might sound sloppy.  To classical musicians, being accurate and clean and having perfect technique is invaluable.  They run scales and do Hanon exercises more than 99% of Gospel Musicians alive.

So if he was in a classical setting, he wouldn't fare too well.  I don't know if he reads music, but even if he DOES he CAN'T read music as well as a Top Flight Classical Pianist.  By Top Flight I mean men/women who have been playing for 20+ years, who play before audiences of thousands.

Simply put, Derick Jackson is a great Pianist by Gospel Music Standards, and those are the only standards he should be judged by.

The same goes for a Classical Pianist.

[under13]

Mr RJ,  I dont think its fair that you just assume that he cant read music. not all gospel musicians limit themselves to only a few genres.

Here is a comment from a youtube  user talking about Derrick

Ohhh, there's also that time he was traveling with some orchestra. And while in route, someone on the bus realized that they had left the sheet music in the previous city. Derrick took a CD of a previous concert and a pencil & paper and scored the show in his hotel room before the concert began. "Perfect Pitch" is not even accurate...the dude can hear a fly fart!!! (No offense)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lbZAS8lGjjU&feature=related

If that story is true then I would not be suprised if he can do classical just as well as them other guys
Derrick fusing classical with Gospel:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9wSxoevh7ZA&feature=related

[musallio]

I WISH I COULD HEAR A FLY FART!!

[Rjthakid]

Mr RJ,  I dont think its fair that you just assume that he cant read music. not all gospel musicians limit themselves to only a few genres.

Here is a comment from a youtube  user talking about Derrick
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lbZAS8lGjjU&feature=related

If that story is true then I would not be suprised if he can do classical just as well as them other guys
Derrick fusing classical with Gospel: http://youtube.com/watch?v=9wSxoevh7ZA&feature=related

I didn't assume he can't read music.  I simply said I don't know.

I don't know if he reads music, but even if he DOES he CAN'T read music as well as a Top Flight Classical Pianist. 

[sjonathan02]

I didn't assume he can't read music.  I simply said I don't know.

I would say that it isn't fair to claim that he can't read music as well. How do you qualify, 'as well'?

[under13]

I didn't assume he can't read music.  I simply said I don't know.

I would say that it isn't fair to claim that he can't read music as well. How do you qualify, 'as well'?

I notice that a lot of people think gospel players cant read. I would say about Half of the ones I've met can read and the other half can not.

Most Pentacostal type churches dont need for you to read. They dont even have hymnbooks.But go try to get a job at an AME, or Baptist church, they would prefer that you read, but will still hire you if you dont, But if you cant read then you will never get a job in a Catholic or  Lutheran church

I wanna be a musician that can walk in any church and play with confidence

[musallio]

I wanna be a musician that can walk in any church and play with confidence

The only reason I want to read is so that I can play anything I see in a score.
I wouldn't want to play at church where I'm forced to read

But yeah, I don't think I can label myself a pianist until I can read scored music reasonably well.

[SOMERETARD]

I think your a good when other musicians give you positive comments and ask " hey what was that chord there or hey play that one part again. Fellow musicain really understand nice chords because we look at musice slighlty different from other people. Usually a musician can tell a good player within the first 5 mins. Even if you are limited in certain keys you can still be a good musician. The topic isnt asking for the best musician right?

[under13]

The only reason I want to read is so that I can play anything I see in a score.
I wouldn't want to play at church where I'm forced to read

But yeah, I don't think I can label myself a pianist until I can read scored music reasonably well.

I wouldnt want to be forced to read either but it is good know how to read when you have to play "service music" in a church that you are not familiar with

The problem I have with some churches is when they give you a hymn book and expect you to sight read it, but they dont sing the song in the key it is witten in. If your not gonna let me choose the key then dont bother handing me a hymn book

[Rjthakid]

I would say that it isn't fair to claim that he can't read music as well. How do you qualify, 'as well'?

I notice that a lot of people think gospel players cant read. I would say about Half of the ones I've met can read and the other half can not.

Most Pentacostal type churches dont need for you to read. They dont even have hymnbooks.But go try to get a job at an AME, or Baptist church, they would prefer that you read, but will still hire you if you dont, But if you cant read then you will never get a job in a Catholic or  Lutheran church

I wanna be a musician that can walk in any church and play with confidence

Again under13, I did not assume he can't read.  I didn't say that.  I said I don't know....which I don't.

And sjon, I can say for a certainty that he cannot read music as well as the most advanced Classical Pianists.

Why?  because ALL they do is read music.  There is a difference between knowing how to read music well and being a world class classical pianist who can read and play the most complex pieces.

Again, I NEVER SAID he can't read music, I simply said I don't know if he can, and if he can, saying that he can read music on the level of a World class Classical Pianist is just not likely.

Do you guys really know what I'm saying when I speak of a top flight classical pianist?  These are the best of the best.  These are individuals who can play an extremely difficult 10 minute piece flawlessly. 

[sjonathan02]

Again under13, I did not assume he can't read.  I didn't say that.  I said I don't know....which I don't.

And sjon, I can say for a certainty that he cannot read music as well as the most advanced Classical Pianists.

Why?  because ALL they do is read music.  There is a difference between knowing how to read music well and being a world class classical pianist who can read and play the most complex pieces.

Again, I NEVER SAID he can't read music, I simply said I don't know if he can, and if he can, saying that he can read music on the level of a World class Classical Pianist is just not likely.

Do you guys really know what I'm saying when I speak of a top flight classical pianist?  These are the best of the best.  These are individuals who can play an extremely difficult 10 minute piece flawlessly. 

I don't know her name, but there's a woman who would prove my argument that's been on Bobby Jones. The woman is a beast and can play BOTH gospel and classical music.

That's all I'm saying. Now, if you're JUST going with the gospel guy mentioned, then you may have a point.

I tend to think that it's all relative.

[under13]

Again under13, I did not assume he can't read.  I didn't say that.  I said I don't know....which I don't.

And sjon, I can say for a certainty that he cannot read music as well as the most advanced Classical Pianists.

Why?  because ALL they do is read music.  There is a difference between knowing how to read music well and being a world class classical pianist who can read and play the most complex pieces.

Again, I NEVER SAID he can't read music, I simply said I don't know if he can, and if he can, saying that he can read music on the level of a World class Classical Pianist is just not likely.

Do you guys really know what I'm saying when I speak of a top flight classical pianist?  These are the best of the best.  These are individuals who can play an extremely difficult 10 minute piece flawlessly. 

Sorry if it seemed as if I was directing my last comment only to you or talking about you. I was speaking in general from my experiences

So if he was in a classical setting, he wouldn't fare too well.  I don't know if he reads music, but even if he DOES he CAN'T read music as well as a Top Flight Classical Pianist.  By Top Flight I mean men/women who have been playing for 20+ years, who play before audiences of thousands.

Unless you know him personaly those are assumptions. they might be true. I dont know him personaly so I am assuming too

An assumption is a proposition that is taken for granted, in other words, that is treated for the sake of a given discussion as if it were known to be true.

God bless you brother

[marquesanthony]

I was speaking about Derick Jackson in particular.

Things like big fat full chords, blazing runs, and jazzy voicings carry more weight in Gospel than they do in the Classical arena.

In a Gospel music setting with a Top Classical Pianist, I think Derick would excell in a Gospel music setting more than a Classical Pianist would.  It's really an improvisational atmosphere, and not all Classical Pianists can improvise.  Those who study jazz can.  Those who don't, can't.  And even those who study jazz may be able to improvise a song they know, but can't listen to a song one time and pick it up.

Experience is the best teacher.

Many gospel musicians, while in a service, are forced to hear a song one time through and then try to play it.  Because of this a Gospel musician who's been playing in church services for 20+ years would be better able to pick up a song after hearing it once through.  They'd also be better improvisors because of this.

Things like Sight Reading, articulation, and technique carry more weight in classical than they do in the Gospel arena.

As clean and crisp as Derick Jackson sounds to US, to the ear of a Classical Pianist it might sound sloppy.  To classical musicians, being accurate and clean and having perfect technique is invaluable.  They run scales and do Hanon exercises more than 99% of Gospel Musicians alive.

So if he was in a classical setting, he wouldn't fare too well.  I don't know if he reads music, but even if he DOES he CAN'T read music as well as a Top Flight Classical Pianist.  By Top Flight I mean men/women who have been playing for 20+ years, who play before audiences of thousands.

Simply put, Derick Jackson is a great Pianist by Gospel Music Standards, and those are the only standards he should be judged by.

The same goes for a Classical Pianist.

Man you don"t know anything about DJ, have u sat down with him he can read he major in classical organ orchestra performance.