two part question.

[arthur59]

On last night the m.o.m e-mailed me the song list for this week,6 songs.He normally sends it out on monday to give us enough time to learn the songs.

Qustion #1 on average,how long does it take you to learn a song?

Question #2 has any one played "traiding my sorrow" by Israel Houghton,if so can you help a bro out, I need the intro,if i had enough time could figure it out,but my time is limited this week.

Thanks

[isthatagirlonthebass]

Answer to question 1:  Depending how hard the song is...1-2 days.

Answer to questions 2:  This is one of the best versions on line of the solo from the great Ivan Santiago.  The sound quality is a little bad...but you'll get the idea.

Intro to "trading my sorrows" By Isreal Hougton

[jeremyr]

On last night the m.o.m e-mailed me the song list for this week,6 songs.He normally sends it out on monday to give us enough time to learn the songs.

Qustion #1 on average,how long does it take you to learn a song?

Question #2 has any one played "traiding my sorrow" by Israel Houghton,if so can you help a bro out, I need the intro,if i had enough time could figure it out,but my time is limited this week.

Thanks

I only have an answer for #1.


#1.  about 15 minutes if that. More complex songs like James Hall god wants a yes, I'd probably need an hour

[arthur59]

Answer to question 1:  Depending how hard the song is...1-2 days.

Answer to questions 2:  This is one of the best versions on line of the solo from the great Ivan Santiago.  The sound quality is a little bad...but you'll get the idea.

Intro to "trading my sorrows" By Isreal Hougton

THAT'S IT!! THAT IS IT!! Thanks isthatagirlonthebass,love you with the love of christ,I also love your youtube videos,you don't talk on your videos, but the way you play does all the talking for you,Yes,I'm a fan of yours

[Kelz-Da-Basshead]

I'd say about fifteen minutes to an hour. two hours if a song has alot of licks and changes and my m.o.m. expects the band to play them.

[ddwilkins]

1. I need 5-10 minutes to get the progressions down, then I'm adding my taste to the song. I don't want to use the same licks that the original bass player played.

[isthatagirlonthebass]

I only have an answer for #1.


#1.  about 15 minutes if that. More complex songs like James Hall god wants a yes, I'd probably need an hour

@Jeremy - Dang...I haven't advanced to that level yet.  No wonder you get all the gigs:)
@arthur59  You're welcome and thanks.  I don't like to talk...I just wanna play:)

[blacklw234]

THAT'S IT!! THAT IS IT!! Thanks isthatagirlonthebass,love you with the love of christ,I also love your youtube videos,you don't talk on your videos, but the way you play does all the talking for you,Yes,i'm a fan of yours

I must say, I am a fan of isthatagirlonthebass. Her chops and control is sweet. Nothing real fancy, but hot off the press. Keep it up!!!!

[blacklw234]

To really get a song down pack. Including timing and runs.  It takes 2-3 hours for me. I try to keep the same flavor as the bass player on the record. Which often means his/her style is quite different from mine and therefore I have to change my style to compliment the same feel of the song. It also helps you to become more versatile. Yes I do put my taste to it, but for the most part, my MOM wants the song to sound close as possible to original.

[SavnBass]

On last night the m.o.m e-mailed me the song list for this week,6 songs.He normally sends it out on monday to give us enough time to learn the songs.
Qustion #1 on average,how long does it take you to learn a song?
Question #2 has any one played "traiding my sorrow" by Israel Houghton,if so can you help a bro out, I need the intro,if i had enough time could figure it out,but my time is limited this week.
Thanks

1-It all depends on the song.. but for most funky Israel songs it takes me a few hours.. There is stuff that Rafiki does that I just don't have the chops for so I have to break it down into something I can digest and translate.. For some songs it may take a few minutes.. We usually have some kind of charts so I use that as a guide.

2-We do trading my sorrows but we do the less funky version that starts with the chords.. We do do a lot of Israel though.. Today we did Rejoice and I Know Who I Am..

[floaded27]

how is it that people learn songs in 15 mins to a few hours and it takes me several days? i wonder, are we defining "learning a song" in the same way? or just maybe different songs we are learning.

simple worship songs only take a few minutes (some u have to learn right on the spot) but choir songs with a lot of breaks, changes, non-diatonic chords, odd timing etc. it may take me a few days.

if i cannot play the song alone, without the record then I have not learned the song (because thats what im required to do when rehearsing with the singers).

[jeremyr]

@Jeremy - Dang...I haven't advanced to that level yet.  No wonder you get all the gigs:)

I'm just trying to be like you! Your groove is impeccable!

how is it that people learn songs in 15 mins to a few hours and it takes me several days? i wonder, are we defining "learning a song" in the same way? or just maybe different songs we are learning.

I think this is a good question to answer, so I'll address it with my perspective.

Step 1.
When I learn a song I break it up mentally into sections.
1. Intro
2. Verse
3. Chorus
4. Vamp/hook

When you break it up that way it's a lot easier to remember what the progressions are and you'll soon find that a lot of songs are all using the same progressions in these same areas, but just played with a little different timing.

I DO NOT learn note names when playing/learning a song with the exception of knowing what Key I'm in. The progressions take care of what notes I play, so I don't worry about it at all unless we change stuff up on the fly and even then I translate that to a progression and forget about what notes I'm playing.  Now if I think about it I can tell you what I'm playing, but I'm more focused on playing music than knowing exactly what note I'm playing.

I don't think that ANY of us should be learning songs to the T!  If you're worried about learning a song lick by lick then you are seriously hindering your growth as a musician IMHO. Now you might be asking why, so here's a few reasons.

1.  Even the people that played the original version aren't going to play it exactly the same way after they cut the record.  It's just not going to happen.  There will be similiar concepts, but rarely if at all will you hear someone play their own song the same way twice. 

2.  Why learn it to the T and it's more than likely never going to be sang exactly how the record is?  We all have been there when things vamp out, or they repeat a verse, or whatever and one of two things happens. A) we repeat exactly what we did on the last verse and it becomes a carbon copy (I HAVE BEEN THERE AND NEVER WANT TO GO BACK) B) We ignore our natural musical voice and become a copy of someone else rather then being your own "musician".

Now with the 2 points above I'm not saying that we shouldn't study licks that others have done or try to figure them out, because that helps us learn and move around our instruments, but when it gets to the point that all you can do is mimic what you hear and you can't apply any of your own personality to the music, you've become someone that isn't someone.

Step 2.
I apply a groove/feel to it and this steadily evolves as I get more and more comfortable with the feel and how the other musicians are approaching it.


Don't feel that you have to have the feel right off bat.  It's not going to happen for most of us (especially when you're hearing it for the first time).

[ssab]

Well said J.

[mjl422]

I like that aproach Jeremyr.  I can't tell you how many hours I wasted over the years trying to learn songs.  Alot of times I would try to memorize notes.  Sometimes I would write out songs note for note and try to memorize them.  Even now, there are some songs that I know that I can't tell you what the progression is or even what key it's in (because I just learned a bunch of notes).  Once you break it down into progression, it makes things so much easier.  A 2-5-1 is a 2-5-1 regardless of the key, feel, tempo...etc.

I'm still trying to break some of these bad habits.  I'm alot better but I'm not at the 15 minute mark yet.  I wish I had you guys aroung when I was starting out.  I would be on tour right now..lol.

[jeremyr]

Even now, there are some songs that I know that I can't tell you what the progression is or even what key it's in (because I just learned a bunch of notes).  Once you break it down into progression, it makes things so much easier.  A 2-5-1 is a 2-5-1 regardless of the key, feel, tempo...etc.

I still run into songs like that myself!! A good one was "God wants a Yes"  I learned that joker NOTE for NOTE. Another song was "All I want to do is bless your name", I learned that one off the shapes of the movements, but when the keys changed....WHEEEWWW I Was in TROUBLE!!!

That happened to me and I took a mental not to make sure I knew the progressions of those songs and not just notes or shapes.  The next time they sang them I was ready and could play in any key without ANY fuss. 

If I only knew back then that what I was doing was making life harder on myself.....GLOORRRY!!!!! 

I thank God for dropping that knowledge on me, because I would TRULY be lost playing without it.

 

[Kelz-Da-Basshead]

I'm just trying to be like you! Your groove is impeccable!

I think this is a good question to answer, so I'll address it with my perspective.

Step 1.
When I learn a song I break it up mentally into sections.
1. Intro
2. Verse
3. Chorus
4. Vamp/hook

When you break it up that way it's a lot easier to remember what the progressions are and you'll soon find that a lot of songs are all using the same progressions in these same areas, but just played with a little different timing.

I DO NOT learn note names when playing/learning a song with the exception of knowing what Key I'm in. The progressions take care of what notes I play, so I don't worry about it at all unless we change stuff up on the fly and even then I translate that to a progression and forget about what notes I'm playing.  Now if I think about it I can tell you what I'm playing, but I'm more focused on playing music than knowing exactly what note I'm playing.

I don't think that ANY of us should be learning songs to the T!  If you're worried about learning a song lick by lick then you are seriously hindering your growth as a musician IMHO. Now you might be asking why, so here's a few reasons.

1.  Even the people that played the original version aren't going to play it exactly the same way after they cut the record.  It's just not going to happen.  There will be similiar concepts, but rarely if at all will you hear someone play their own song the same way twice. 

2.  Why learn it to the T and it's more than likely never going to be sang exactly how the record is?  We all have been there when things vamp out, or they repeat a verse, or whatever and one of two things happens. A) we repeat exactly what we did on the last verse and it becomes a carbon copy (I HAVE BEEN THERE AND NEVER WANT TO GO BACK) B) We ignore our natural musical voice and become a copy of someone else rather then being your own "musician".

Now with the 2 points above I'm not saying that we shouldn't study licks that others have done or try to figure them out, because that helps us learn and move around our instruments, but when it gets to the point that all you can do is mimic what you hear and you can't apply any of your own personality to the music, you've become someone that isn't someone.

Step 2.
I apply a groove/feel to it and this steadily evolves as I get more and more comfortable with the feel and how the other musicians are approaching it.


Don't feel that you have to have the feel right off bat.  It's not going to happen for most of us (especially when you're hearing it for the first time).

Thats what i tell people all the time take advantage of being a bass player.  All you need to know are the intervals. you dont have to learn to play in every key. Their are certain progressions and turn arounds i have played so much that i can easily pick em out.  1-3-4-6-7-1 progression(i hate that one so bad) 6-5-4(very popular in contemporary worship. 7-3-6-2-5-1.  When you learn by progression and not by note, you may hear a progression you played in a different key. If you learned notes, you have to learn it all over again. If you learn the progression then you can skip that part cuz you already know it. 
I spend more time working on the feel of the song or developing my own feel.  I only learn licks that the whole group has to do. Not stuff the bass player is doin, unless the bass player does something just nasty other wise i can make my own.  When you learn progression that helps you make your own licks because now you can use your modes and pentatonics cuz you know thats they are playing the 2 so you use dorian.

DONT MAKE PLAYING HARDER THAN IT ACTUALLY IS.

[SavnBass]

I like that aproach Jeremyr.  I can't tell you how many hours I wasted over the years trying to learn songs.  Alot of times I would try to memorize notes.  Sometimes I would write out songs note for note and try to memorize them.  Even now, there are some songs that I know that I can't tell you what the progression is or even what key it's in (because I just learned a bunch of notes).  Once you break it down into progression, it makes things so much easier.  A 2-5-1 is a 2-5-1 regardless of the key, feel, tempo...etc.

I'm still trying to break some of these bad habits.  I'm alot better but I'm not at the 15 minute mark yet.  I wish I had you guys aroung when I was starting out.  I would be on tour right now..lol.

I actually just started doing it that way.. got it from here in fact.. 

It was something that never occured to me.. I was looking fior charts to Blessed.. and I found one that had the progressions in it.. and then the light went on and the aha! moment ensued..

[Wesley16]

Thats what i tell people all the time take advantage of being a bass player.  All you need to know are the intervals. you dont have to learn to play in every key. Their are certain progressions and turn arounds i have played so much that i can easily pick em out.  1-3-4-6-7-1 progression(i hate that one so bad) 6-5-4(very popular in contemporary worship. 7-3-6-2-5-1.  When you learn by progression and not by note, you may hear a progression you played in a different key. If you learned notes, you have to learn it all over again. If you learn the progression then you can skip that part cuz you already know it. 
I spend more time working on the feel of the song or developing my own feel.  I only learn licks that the whole group has to do. Not stuff the bass player is doin, unless the bass player does something just nasty other wise i can make my own.  When you learn progression that helps you make your own licks because now you can use your modes and pentatonics cuz you know thats they are playing the 2 so you use dorian.

DONT MAKE PLAYING HARDER THAN IT ACTUALLY IS.

Please help me get a better understanding of learning a song by
learning the progression of the song.Do the numbers to the pro-
gression of a song, is it also scale degree numbers from major or
minor scales? Do I have this right? Same thing or is my thinking
wrong? Another question, when someone is asking what is the pro-
gression to xyz song, and somebody post, its 3-6-5-4-2, if I never
heard this song before but want to learn how to play it, I don't
know what key the song starts in; is the song starting in a major
or minor scale? Turnarounds to a song, suggestions of any kind as
to figure out turnarounds to a song. I coming up on about a year of
trying to teach myself how to play bass. I have a decent ear, good
timing,I'm tuned down a half-step. I know basic theory, and I know
the my notes on the neck, well give me a sec and I can find it..lol.
So any suggestions in helping me in breaking down a song into pro-
gression will be grateful, very grateful, Be Bless !!!

[Kelz-Da-Basshead]

I am going to try to answer your questions as good as i can but i am not good at explaining theory so some guys may have to clear things up. 
Generally when you are talking about progressions especially in a church environment you are not going to worry about major/minor at all.  you always speak in major.  Thats why you have to understand about relative major/minor keys. A minor and C major are the exact same key. They have the exact same notes.  The C major scale is c-d-e-f-g-a-b-octave.  If i gave you the scale in numbers/intervals it would be 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-octave.  The a minor scale is a-b-c-d-e-f-g-octave. the numbers/intervals would be 6-7-1-2-3-4-5.  The notes are the same they just feel different because of the progression of the notes.  A progresion is just the order that the notes/chords fall in. a 6-2 progression in Cmaj would be A then D. the feel of it will not be happy but more sad/serious/tense however you want to describe it, so people are goin to say the song is A min instead of Cmaj.  But a 1-4 progression in Cmaj would be C then F.  It would sound happy/relaxed/free however you want to describe it.

Now we change keys, now we are in Amaj. so a 1-4 prgression is no longer C-F. It is now A-D. but it sounds exactly the same as the 1-4 in Cmaj instead of the 6-2 even though the bass notes are the same. and our 6-2 is now Gb-B but it sounds exactly the same as our 6-2 in C-maj. Just a little lower for the singers.

[Kelz-Da-Basshead]

Now I'm going to post a video I made it is a 6-2 progression.  That tells you nothing about the actual song.  All it tells you is that the root notes of the prgression are the six and the two of whatever key its in. I dont remember what key its in off the top of my head. Once you listen to the song all you need to do to learn it is find the key and memorize the tempo and feel. If i tell oyu the progression and the key all you need to work on is tempo and feel because i gave you the notes.

Playing to a back track i made in mix craft.