Is it a crime in gospel to have music sheets?

[StooB]

The holy grail of bass playing is to be able to memorize all songs, even the one's you've never heard, be able to play in all keys on the fretboard and behind it, then go off into some spiritual anointing playing the exact notes as the keyboardist who is off on a different spiritual anointing. And all this without any form of sheet music, chord chart or notation.

From my CCM background, people get out their worn sheets of paper and play along, although myself, as well as most musicians would just rather play from memory and from their soul of course.

But virtually every video I see of gospel bassists, there are no bits of paper at all.

So is it subconciously seen as a crime or sin or some form of infliction to play with any form of paper in front of you?? 

[Blessingss]

I'm not a professional musician yet but I think that is not necessarily the case it's just that once people know their instruments well, they tend to play by ear rather than reading because just imagine: If you can watch most of black American bassists, there's no way their heads can stay focused on the sheet in front of them.

"Awesome God!" (Bass Remix) Leemarc Ferguson of Faith Dimensions

[StooB]

If you can watch most of black American bassists, there's no way their heads can stay focused on the sheet in front of them.

LOL  Black bassists in general I would say 

Abe Laboriel & Friends

[Blessingss]

LOL  Black bassists in general I would say 

Exactly! You know, I don't know how did it get installed in my mind that every overseas musician is American.

[StooB]

Well look, you have the World Series which is a baseball competition amongst only American teams and I know an American who thought that Obama was President of the world, so when you live on a big island, you can be forgiven to feel you are alone in the world! 

[Fingers!]

The holy grail of bass playing is to be able to memorize all songs, even the one's you've never heard, be able to play in all keys on the fretboard and behind it, then go off into some spiritual anointing playing the exact notes as the keyboardist who is off on a different spiritual anointing. And all this without any form of sheet music, chord chart or notation.

Dude...you REALLY got to get out of my head.  That whole paragraph is the story of my life.

[StooB]

L L

[floaded27]

The holy grail of bass playing is to be able to memorize all songs, even the one's you've never heard, be able to play in all keys on the fretboard and behind it, then go off into some spiritual anointing playing the exact notes as the keyboardist who is off on a different spiritual anointing. And all this without any form of sheet music, chord chart or notation.

From my CCM background, people get out their worn sheets of paper and play along, although myself, as well as most musicians would just rather play from memory and from their soul of course.

But virtually every video I see of gospel bassists, there are no bits of paper at all.

So is it subconciously seen as a crime or sin or some form of infliction to play with any form of paper in front of you?? 

not a crime or sin. but sometimes pointless. when folks burst into song during service, you gotta figure it out and play. i've never heard "I want to sing this song as my testimony. Here, pass this sheet music to the musicians." Nah. That last sentence never happens. They just go into song. So you pick them up. Being able to do this improves as you grow as a player. You need that ear. Anything can happen. Sometimes the service moves in the direction that wasnt expected in rehearsal. Sometimes you dont know until it happens, but even you can agree "that was the perfect song" Now are we gonna have sheet music to every song on hand all the time just in case? The Spirit is moving, the audience is captivated, and all the musicians are flipping through pages? What if you're in a different key than whats on the sheet music? Can you transpose in-time?

And go play the same songs with someone else. Thats like having Spanish notes in French class. So are they gonna give you a new set of music? So you now have multiple sets of sheet music for the same song. That just seems like a certified headache.

But sometimes you need to be free to get into the music. Even most secular artists dont perform with sheet music. And they dont do as many dynamics as gospel. And gospel shows/concerts are way more structured than church services. Things change on the fly, sometimes for the better. Honestly, in addition to being an awesome and skilled musician, this type of environment is supposed to foster superb communication between the entire group (musicians, singers, directors, etc).

Most bands that do the most awesome things USUALLY have excellent communication. A lot of times, matching those notes isnt difficult when they know how to tell each other what theyre doing. And they know their own cues and signals without everyone else having to notice.

[mjl422]

The holy grail of bass playing is to be able to memorize all songs, even the one's you've never heard, be able to play in all keys on the fretboard and behind it, then go off into some spiritual anointing playing the exact notes as the keyboardist who is off on a different spiritual anointing. And all this without any form of sheet music, chord chart or notation.

From my CCM background, people get out their worn sheets of paper and play along, although myself, as well as most musicians would just rather play from memory and from their soul of course.

But virtually every video I see of gospel bassists, there are no bits of paper at all.

So is it subconciously seen as a crime or sin or some form of infliction to play with any form of paper in front of you?? 

I've seen alot of professional musicians who use charts (there's not a whole lot of sheet music in gospel).  Most of them are probably hand written and they may not even be full charts but just what each individual musician needs to get through the service/concert/gig....   

I've read/seen interviews where Mo-Fitz and Sharray Reed talked about reading charts.  I've seen DVDs  where the musicians had music stands beside them.  They may not be "reading them" but, the last thing you want (as a professional) is to have a brain fart in the middle of a song and have to completely wing it.  I chart out the majority of my music. I don't always need it but, it's good to have it when I do. 

I long for the day when I can play completely by ear and play whatever I can hear in my head but, I'm not there yet.  I think every musician should do what works for them.  If you are at the level where you need sheet/charts then use them until you don't need them anymore.  Some songs you may need a full chart, some you may just need to write a run or just what key it is in...etc.  But, do what works for you, for the level that you are at now,  while you work on getting better.

[mjl422]

Just to add:

For the off-the-cuff stuf, most of the guys are so used to playing through common progressions that it sounds like they know every song.  And if you have good communication between bandmates, you can get through songs alot easier. 

[keysrme2010]

I've seen alot of professional musicians who use charts (there's not a whole lot of sheet music in gospel).  Most of them are probably hand written and they may not even be full charts but just what each individual musician needs to get through the service/concert/gig....   

I've read/seen interviews where Mo-Fitz and Sharray Reed talked about reading charts.  I've seen DVDs  where the musicians had music stands beside them.  They may not be "reading them" but, the last thing you want (as a professional) is to have a brain fart in the middle of a song and have to completely wing it.  I chart out the majority of my music. I don't always need it but, it's good to have it when I do. 

I long for the day when I can play completely by ear and play whatever I can hear in my head but, I'm not there yet.  I think every musician should do what works for them.   If you are at the level where you need sheet/charts then use them until you don't need them anymore.  Some songs you may need a full chart, some you may just need to write a run or just what key it is in...etc.  But, do what works for you, for the level that you are at now,  while you work on getting better.

This

[mjl422]

The bassist from Hillsong London on the "God Is..." album is pretty animated too, and he's not even black. He bounces around with the best of them.

I've never seen a professional CCM artist using sheet music =\

It's easier to make music sheets for CCM, so they're more available. And due to the "composed" non-improvising nature of the music (and the fact that you guys use those fancy lyric presentation videos), you pretty much just play it the way it was written.

Also... if the online forums are any indication, for some reason there are a whole lot of (forgive me for saying this) "talentless musicians" who can only play by sheets/tabs, and have horrible ears, and can't learn anything by ear to save their lives. I don't understand what would drive someone who has no musical talent to pick up an instrument in the first place. But, I mean, they sound good as long as they have a paper in front of them, so it's all good, I guess.

Gospel music has a much more spontaneous nature, so naturally those who play gospel music will be playing in the moment, and making it up as they go. And the unavailability of the music sheets means that the potential non-musicians get weeded out, and only the ones who can play spontaneously survive.

So, the bottom line for me is:

CCM: Simple Guitar chord driven, easy to make music sheets, provides a crutch for those who need it = cultivates more musicians dependent on music sheets, and causes the songs to be played the same way every time.

Gospel: More complex piano and voice driven music, more difficult to transcribe, so you don't have as many people who have to use music sheets, and so you have less people who use them.

I'm not sure it's a matter of being talentless as it is being trained differently.  There are alot of classical musicians who can't play by ear but, will wear out the most complicated written music.  Ear training is a skilled that has to be developed over time.  For some it takes longer than others.  That's why I always tell people to do what works for them. 

[betnich]

Reminds me of the old joke - "How do you silence a guitar player? Put sheet music in front of him."

To me, it's no epic fail for a musician (especially keyboard players) to play off music or charts.

But from watching pro bands I notice it's far less likely, especially for drummers, lead guitarists or singers, they move around so much, they have it memorized.

Bottom line - we need to give grace to others if we expect grace for ourselves...

[mjl422]

Yeah, that's probably the wrong word to use. I should have said "lacking in certain musical talents". I don't think it takes musical talent to properly follow instructions on a piece of paper. It takes a different kind of talent that a lot of people lack. It takes the talent to transfer what you see into what you do. I don't consider that a music specific talent. I just call that good hand-eye coordination. It's more like a performing robot, following the programming (which is a good talent in itself). Now, i

It's hard for me to understand that type of musician, because if I can't hear something, I'll just keep listening to it over and over, for hours (not necessarily all at once), if need be, until I figure it out. I put in a lot of work to develop my ear, and it seems like some people just give up so easily.

I think a musician is more versatile if he doesn't have to totally rely on sheets, because someone has to make the sheets for him, or else he's helpless. I think the dependent musician is just more common, because all the resources are their. And God uses a willing heart, not the one who's the most talented. If you're willing to follow the programming, then you're a good tool for the Lord to use to provide music, even if you don't understand what you're playing. lol.

I understand what you are saying.  And I agree that (for what we do) ear training and putting in the time is essential.  But, for some types of music, it's not as essential (that's why I used the classical musician as an example).  For them reading complicated music fluently is essential and takes a great amount of practice and skill (and each one adds their own subtle feel to it).  But, just because they aren't learning their music by ear doesn't mean that they are lesser musicians. It's just that they are trained differently.  Truthfully, there are people who feel that if a musician can't read, he/she is a lesser musician. Some people think that using your ear (strictly) is a crutch as well. 

I think musicians should be well rounded.  If you go into a situation where somebody throws a piece of sheet music in front of you, you should be able to follow it even if you've never heard the song before.  And some will tell you "play as written".  Now, on bass it is rare for that to happen but, for keyboards/organ it isn't that uncommon (especially in certain types of churches).

[under13]

Depends on the church or groups you play for. In most pentecostal type ministries and musical circles, yeah, it's a crime to have chord charts and sheet music. If you go out to a concert with your group and you are using sheet music you will probably be laughed at. Come to think about it, most churches dont even have music stands, even on the organ, often times the stands are removed so they can place a keyboard on top of it. Like someone else said, this type of music is about spontaneity, so even if you are doing a planned song, the musicians will usually be on a level that they dont need sheets.

I would hate to say that someone is less of a musician for using sheets, but in the hardcore gospel community, if you have to rely on sheets, then you probably have a lot more practicing to do.

And of course the opposite is true in the more traditional churches.

[BassbyGrace]

Yeah, that's probably the wrong word to use. I should have said "lacking in certain musical talents". I don't think it takes musical talent to properly follow instructions on a piece of paper. It takes a different kind of talent that a lot of people lack. It takes the talent to transfer what you see into what you do. I don't consider that a music specific talent. I just call that good hand-eye coordination. It's more like a performing robot, following the programming (which is a good talent in itself). Now, i

It's hard for me to understand that type of musician, because if I can't hear something, I'll just keep listening to it over and over, for hours (not necessarily all at once), if need be, until I figure it out. I put in a lot of work to develop my ear, and it seems like some people just give up so easily.

I think a musician is more versatile if he doesn't have to totally rely on sheets, because someone has to make the sheets for him, or else he's helpless. I think the dependent musician is just more common, because all the resources are their. And God uses a willing heart, not the one who's the most talented. If you're willing to follow the programming, then you're a good tool for the Lord to use to provide music, even if you don't understand what you're playing. lol.

Have you ever tried sightreading a piece of music on bass?  Not just reading the notes, but adding all the nuances and embellishments that are written in?  You might change your tune a lil bit.  Its a musical talent because all while you are transferring that information that you see, you STILL have to make it musically appealing, which is actually more difficult because its not internal .  Thats the difference in a robot and a musician.  Also, with alot of these pros and other groups, they shed together for months before performing the tunes so you have plenty of time to internalize it all. 

I do both.  My gospel background has made my ear sharp, yet my jazz, band, and classical background has made my reading tight. I do alot of last call work though.  From studio, to choir concerts, to jazz combo gigs.  I have quite a few little notebooks with scribbled chord charts, song structures, etc.  I dont think anyone is less than the other though.  Most ppl stick to what they are used to.  Alot of gospel musicians learn listening.  Some others learn reading.  If you've done that all your life, its easy to say thats easy and the way to go.  But just as it seems ppl give up easy learning by ear, ALOT of cats wont touch a manuscript with even whole notes on it.

We must strive to perfect our craft.  Reading is just as essential as listening.

I understand what you are saying.  And I agree that (for what we do) ear training and putting in the time is essential.  But, for some types of music, it's not as essential (that's why I used the classical musician as an example).  For them reading complicated music fluently is essential and takes a great amount of practice and skill (and each one adds their own subtle feel to it).  But, just because they aren't learning their music by ear doesn't mean that they are lesser musicians. It's just that they are trained differently.  Truthfully, there are people who feel that if a musician can't read, he/she is a lesser musician. Some people think that using your ear (strictly) is a crutch as well. 

I think musicians should be well rounded.  If you go into a situation where somebody throws a piece of sheet music in front of you, you should be able to follow it even if you've never heard the song before.  And some will tell you "play as written".  Now, on bass it is rare for that to happen but, for keyboards/organ it isn't that uncommon (especially in certain types of churches).

indeed.

[StooB]

And God uses a willing heart, not the one who's the most talented. If you're willing to follow the programming, then you're a good tool for the Lord to use to provide music, even if you don't understand what you're playing. lol.

Isn't this the main point? What are we playing for? For God or for the music's sake? And how many times have we pulled off an amazing lick, run, chord formation, sweated at honing our musical perfection, only to hear from our wife/friends/congregation after asking them 'Did you think I played well, wasn't the band cool?' only to hear - 'I dunno, I was worshiping God & also I can't make the bass out anyhow'  (my wife is notoriously bad at singling out instruments)


I think it's unwise to say that it's pointless having sheet music, there may be spontaneous worship, and gospel's dynamics are way higher and more complex than CCM stuff (as I have said before G D Em repeat  ) but there is still need for a 'base' of the song and not all of us can play by ear or practice with the band much to gel instantly.


I think with gospel churches, music is seen as way more important than churches where CCM is played. Sometimes people in CCM driven churches can think that music can destract from the work of God (peaceful silence when people are coming forward to be prayed for, for example) whereas in gospel churches, music can be seen as enhancing it (stirring up the anointing, preacher chords etc). Also, gospel music is so rich and so ingrained in the people who sing and listen to it and this of course encourages more musical excellence, exploration and letting the music take you off in different directions. It has driven me mad in my churches ( I go to CCM churches although one band I play in are excellent musicians who did a gospel concert with Daniel Johnson from The New Breed) where there is a cool bit in a song but the band members can't be bothered to play outside the box or just are lazy and miss it out, playing straight    Also most of the musicians need written music to follow as they don't practice enough together as a band and just turn up on the Sunday. I have seen so many after church gospel videos where the band jams, this virtually never happens in my churches. There aren't many gospel churches here in Norway 


I need sheet music when we haven't practiced, although I am a very confident bassist and know my scales, my biggest weakness is playing playing by ear on complicated stuff, I can play by ear to a large extend but I am not totally confident playing blind. Maybe if we practiced more 


So notated music shouldn't be seen as a weakness or lesser abled musicians would be totally put off playing. And isn't it the churches responsibility to bring up new ministers? But of course we should strive to be the best we can, because that is what God deserves. But if only God would answer my prayers and give me that Ken Smith, I would surely play better and there would be no sheets of paper in sight, promise  ...

[BassbyGrace]

I think with gospel churches, music is seen as way more important than churches where CCM is played. Sometimes people in CCM driven churches can think that music can destract from the work of God (peaceful silence when people are coming forward to be prayed for, for example) whereas in gospel churches, music can be seen as enhancing it (stirring up the anointing, preacher chords etc).

Having been a musician of both sides, big and small sized, this is the absolute truth.

[floaded27]

StooB, I think you gave yourself some insight in your last post. You kind of highlighted some of the positives and negative mindsets behind having the sheet music. I think experience with either is what drives some folks perceptions about it.

Just think about you're reasoning for using it vs your bandmates. Honestly there are some folks in ideal music situations and they take it for granted. We on the other hand have to make due with the hand we were dealt and use whatever devices that are at our disposal.

Side Note: I think theres a BIG difference between learning songs from sheet music and having sheet music on hand as a reference.

[StooB]

Yes that's true, I still think that gospel musicians are about the best you can get, it's all about soaking yourself in the music and to live in and out of your passion of being a musician, that's where creativity and freedom is found.