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Author Topic: Theory: it's a struggle  (Read 4872 times)

Offline musicbishop

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Theory: it's a struggle
« on: May 24, 2012, 06:18:10 AM »
Did anyone else on here really struggle with nailing theory? I'm not a total dummy or anything but I have the hardest time wrapping my head around it. I'm totaly interested in it but, after so long of not catching on I get lost in the shuffle. So, if you did struggle with it how did you overcome it? I believe theory is really of great importance to be a good player so I don't want to miss out. Help me please!!!
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2012, 06:32:43 AM »
Quote from: musicbishop on May 24, 2012, 06:18:10 AM
Did anyone else on here really struggle with nailing theory? I'm not a total dummy or anything but I have the hardest time wrapping my head around it. I'm totaly interested in it but, after so long of not catching on I get lost in the shuffle. So, if you did struggle with it how did you overcome it? I believe theory is really of great importance to be a good player so I don't want to miss out. Help me please!!!

Not really.  I'm not an expert, but I have a good working knowledge of theory mixed in with some trial and error.  Theory is but another tool that can help you get to where you want to go.  Is there a particular area that confuses you? 
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Offline betnich

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2012, 12:06:14 PM »
To me, it was like learning a language....theory can be a struggle, until we 'get it' and it is not...always a learning curve to anything new...
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Offline musicbishop

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2012, 05:09:34 AM »
Quote from: funkStrat_97 on May 24, 2012, 06:32:43 AM
Not really.  I'm not an expert, but I have a good working knowledge of theory mixed in with some trial and error.  Theory is but another tool that can help you get to where you want to go. Is there a particular area that confuses you?

I wish I could pinpoint a certain area but it's all like BLAH to me  :-\ :-\ :-\
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2012, 09:23:06 AM »
My biggest eye opening moment with theory came some 15+ years ago when I was studying Jazz Improvisation @ a small L.A. music school
The teacher (an amazing musician named John Daversa) taught us how to dissect a song by knowing the key, knowing the chords and melody and understanding where the song would move in and out of key (so to speak) based on the chords and melody. This was also very helpful in teaching me about modes and when to play certain notes from certain scales, etc...
He used a few jazz standards as his song examples as they have a real basic structure, but they do take small twists and turns through the progression. Plus, they commonly have extended chords (7ths, 9ths, 13ths, etc) that help stretch your understanding beyond the basics.
From that I "got" theory beyond the basic I-IV-V progression.

Since theory is such a big elephant that you have to eat in small bites, start simple. For example, take C major diatonic scale and make a chord progression using basic 1-3-5 triads through the scale. Can you do this or is what I typed all greek to you?  ;D
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Offline Fenix

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2012, 01:39:54 PM »
I didn't really "struggle" with theory. This was largely due to having taken music classes in high school and college before really embarking on an instrument. So when it came time to pick up guitar, it wasn't really hard. The only difficult thing was getting the technique down.
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Offline Gibby

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2012, 07:23:44 AM »
Theory wasn't too bad.  It actually opened my eyes to how certain music was composed.

I wish I could take a theory class...I learned by books...
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2012, 09:33:13 AM »
Quote from: gtrdave on May 25, 2012, 09:23:06 AM
My biggest eye opening moment with theory came some 15+ years ago when I was studying Jazz Improvisation @ a small L.A. music school
The teacher (an amazing musician named John Daversa) taught us how to dissect a song by knowing the key, knowing the chords and melody and understanding where the song would move in and out of key (so to speak) based on the chords and melody. This was also very helpful in teaching me about modes and when to play certain notes from certain scales, etc...
He used a few jazz standards as his song examples as they have a real basic structure, but they do take small twists and turns through the progression. Plus, they commonly have extended chords (7ths, 9ths, 13ths, etc) that help stretch your understanding beyond the basics.
From that I "got" theory beyond the basic I-IV-V progression.

Since theory is such a big elephant that you have to eat in small bites, start simple. For example, take C major diatonic scale and make a chord progression using basic 1-3-5 triads through the scale. Can you do this or is what I typed all greek to you?  ;D

I would love to be able to take a class like that.  Or even watch a good DVD on the subject.  :-\
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Offline Sweetplayer

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2012, 06:17:08 PM »
THROW THEORY OUT THE WINDOW
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2012, 09:27:09 PM »
Quote from: Sweetplayer on May 29, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
THROW THEORY OUT THE WINDOW

.........don't do that unless you want to have a state of musical anarchy and chaos!  But then again, look at the current state of the pop music industry; I digress  :(
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Offline Gibby

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 05:43:14 AM »
Quote from: funkStrat_97 on May 29, 2012, 09:27:09 PM
.........don't do that unless you want to have a state of musical anarchy and chaos!  But then again, look at the current state of the pop music industry; I digress  :(

Y'all leave Rown alone...y'all know he hates theory...
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Offline musicbishop

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 07:21:50 AM »
Quote from: Gibby on May 29, 2012, 07:23:44 AM
Theory wasn't too bad.  It actually opened my eyes to how certain music was composed.
I wish I could take a theory class...I learned by books...

That's exactly why I really want to learn it plus I think it would be very beneficial when playing with other musicians. I think I've come to a point where I want to progress too fast then I wind up nowhere because instead of taking it slow I just let it go  :-\
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Offline Gibby

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 09:51:08 AM »
Quote from: musicbishop on May 30, 2012, 07:21:50 AM
That's exactly why I really want to learn it plus I think it would be very beneficial when playing with other musicians. I think I've come to a point where I want to progress too fast then I wind up nowhere because instead of taking it slow I just let it go  :-\

yeah man...coming from an area where guitarists were very few, I had to know theory to be able to talk to other musicians.  :-\
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MattKid

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 10:26:12 AM »
Learning theory for theory's sake is a waste I tend to learn it as I need it, plus a little more to keep me intrigued and progressing. It's one of the reasons I just joined here, to find out more about functional harmony and Jazz harmony especially in Gospel style music.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2012, 11:37:04 AM »
Quote from: MattKid on May 30, 2012, 10:26:12 AM
Learning theory for theory's sake is a waste I tend to learn it as I need it, plus a little more to keep me intrigued and progressing. It's one of the reasons I just joined here, to find out more about functional harmony and Jazz harmony especially in Gospel style music.

Here's how I see things...

Music is a form of communication...a language.
Music theory is the structure and building blocks with which the language is communicated clearly and uniquely.
Knowing how to play a little bit of music and not really understanding what it is that you're playing is akin to knowing how to speak a little bit of the English language and not understand how to read it or print/type it out.
Therefore, to me, music theory, even knowing a little bit of it, is essential for understanding what you're doing and/or what you want to do and it sure helps when communicating with others who know the same language.
I've known some okay players who know little to no theory, but I've never met an excellent musician who didn't know their theory.
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MattKid

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2012, 11:52:38 AM »
That's pretty much what I mean.

When I could strum a D, G and A chord, I knew they were the 1, 4 and 5 chord from the key of D, I didn't need to know about tritone subs at that time, but probably went on to learn about the relative minor.

Knowing a ton of theory but not being at a place to apply it to music is what I meant as a waste, not theory itself.
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Offline Sweetplayer

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2012, 07:02:53 PM »
Quote from: Gibby on May 30, 2012, 05:43:14 AM
Y'all leave Rown alone...y'all know he hates theory...
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Sweetplayer

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2012, 07:26:36 PM »
By the way,Did i tell everybody.I got to shake hands,with PRINCE.Hey man,whatever float the boat.If you digging theory cool.My ears are my theory.Gospel music these days,is pretty simple.Half step,whole step >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Offline qsark

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2012, 08:18:32 PM »
Quote from: MattKid on May 30, 2012, 11:52:38 AM
That's pretty much what I mean.

When I could strum a D, G and A chord, I knew they were the 1, 4 and 5 chord from the key of D, I didn't need to know about tritone subs at that time, but probably went on to learn about the relative minor.

Knowing a ton of theory but not being at a place to apply it to music is what I meant as a waste, not theory itself.


That's where my struggle is...being able to take what I know and learn and apply it when I am playing instead of relying on my ears so much.
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Offline Gibby

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Re: Theory: it's a struggle
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 07:05:13 AM »
Quote from: Sweetplayer on May 30, 2012, 07:26:36 PM
By the way,Did i tell everybody.I got to shake hands,with PRINCE.Hey man,whatever float the boat.If you digging theory cool.My ears are my theory.Gospel music these days,is pretty simple.Half step,whole step >:( >:( >:( >:(

No pic = Never happened  ;D
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