How to pickup on a song when never heard it before

[JLINDVPCOG]

Good afternoon everyone. I'm a musician at my church.  I play the bass guitar.  I've been playing at my church for about 6.5 years now.  I still have a problem learning or picking up on songs on the fly when the Minister of music decides to change the songs we are going to do or decide to just change on the fly.

The keyboardist knows all the songs, but it gets frustrating when the bass player can't figure the song out until it is over.  Help!!!!!!!! How can i get over this.  I'm trying really hard and I'm just ready to give up.

[csedwards2]

not a bass player, but the first thing I pick up in a song is bass, and Id say youve got the easy job, but tjm

Might be helpful to transition to a setup where you can hit a mute button for your channel going to the house, while you figure it out in your headphones. Then after you learned hit unmute to go live again. Might be a little weird, but will get you through in a pinch..


Also be sure you can hear. I find that my playing and ability to pick up is related to how clearly I can hear myself in relation to the other parts of the mix. If something is too loud, I tend to play safe, using patterns that I know should work, but when the sound is right and you can hear clearly, your ideas should flow better

[funkStrat_97]

The keyboardist knows all the songs...

Do you guys have any system in place for getting the information out to the rest of the band or is your keyboardist sort of a "song-hog"?  Do you all have regular rehearsals?  There are some general guidelines based on the fact that lots of songs use the same chords (in slightly variations), but it is not fair to you (or anyone else involved) that you do not get ample time to familiarize yourself with the music.  Even if things change on the fly, you at least need to have a foundation from which to build.

[JLINDVPCOG]

NW you are right.  I ask for musician rehearsal many and many times and no one wants to rehears.  I found out later that the musicians i play with at the church are all family and they grew up together in the church so they are use to each other and know each others musical abilities.  So when i join the church seven years ago, someone notice me from way back and knew i use to play bass.  I told them i don't play anymore.  They introduced me to the MoM and she insisted that I pickup my bass and play again.

Every time i would come to church service she would call me out right in the middle of a song while she's on stage singing and tell me to bring my bass.  I really didn't want to play any more but i started filling guilty so i started going to the rehearsals.

There are so many songs they know that i never even heard.  I have problems playing simple hymns, but give me something difficult to play i can learn it. 

I would spend all day in the house on Saturdays shedding what i think they are going to play from rehearsals, come Sunday everything has changed.  I'm really trying to hang in there.

[jonesl78]

If you dont know a song, then you dont know the song. Your musical environment is spontaneous. The best you can do is have a recording device ready for those moments. Learn the song on your own and have it ready the next time it pops up. Its not ideal but being able to play a song without prior notice is a necessary skill for a musician.

[lordluvr]

Since the keyboardist knows the song, position yourself near him/her and tell him/her to tell you the progression.  I remember I sat in with a band one Sunday and the lead was a guitarist.  I was on keys.  I didn't know half of the songs they sang, but you wouldn't know it.  The lead guitarist barked out the chord progression as we went along.  So, the first time thorugh the song, I kept it simple and by the 2nd verse I was more comfortable, knowing the progression.

[csedwards2]

wheres that "Like" button again *thumbs*^^^

[funkStrat_97]

. 

I would spend all day in the house on Saturdays shedding what i think they are going to play from rehearsals, come Sunday everything has changed.

Life is short...don't waste your Saturdays shedding to no avail.  Set aside some time to practice, but please go outside and enjoy the rest of the day.  Lordlover and Jonesl78 gave some excellent advice.

[Docdb04]

I just had a conversation along these lines the other day with my bassist (who is more fluent in jazz).  He shared how he struggles with gospel music because he can't figure out when to do what and what changes go where.  If you are accustomed to a certain type of music, then no matter how simple it is it will be hard for you to pick up.  Depending on your level of theory and sharpness of your hearing, you can do a few things:   

Ask your MOM to play the bass line on the organ (or piano if she is playing a baby grand).  From there you can try to pick out the (basic) changes (1-2-4-5-6) and just follow along until you can rehearse the song on your own. 

If the keyboardist is sitting next to you, you can have them call out the changes in the song.  Once you hear the rhythm of the song, you may be able to place the changes in the correct spots. 

You can also have them write a charts for you, whenever they are considering changing to another song.   

You can also do as suggested and "Don't play" the songs you don't know.  That is totally okay and it shouldn't be held against you since you haven't been there as long as the other musicians.  Of course that depends on the level of the keyboardist. 

[T-Block]

Back in the old days, picking up unfamiliar songs was easier because the same chord changes were being used. These days, it's almost impossible to pick up an unfamiliar song and play it correctly because the music can be vastly different from the harmonies in the song.

My advice is if you don't know it, don't play. If you can't pick it up (or put something with it), don't play. It's not the end of the world. People expect you as a musician to be able to play and & every song perfectly and even ones they make up on the spot in whatever key they come up with (even ones not on the keyboard, lol) when the reality is nothing like that.

When you encounter these unfamiliar songs, write down the name of the song and learn it later.

[csedwards2]

Back in the old days, picking up unfamiliar songs was easier because the same chord changes were being used. These days, it's almost impossible to pick up an unfamiliar song and play it correctly because the music can be vastly different from the harmonies in the song.

My advice is if you don't know it, don't play. If you can't pick it up (or put something with it), don't play. It's not the end of the world. People expect you as a musician to be able to play and & every song perfectly and even ones they make up on the spot in whatever key they come up with (even ones not on the keyboard, lol) when the reality is nothing like that.

When you encounter these unfamiliar songs, write down the name of the song and learn it later.

I disagree

It is possible to pick up anything you listen to alot. I listen to a lot of worship and praise songs, and some gospel every now and then. Even though I dont shed everything I hear, because I have heard where it goes, if that song or a song like that comes up in service, I try and usually I do okay. However; I couldnt expect to pick up fast anything Ive never heard before. So for worship, I do much better than traditional gospel, because I dont listen to that style of gospel too much. Whatever songs your church plays, get it in your ear, regardless if the keyboard player spoons it to you or not. Get some CDs from that genre, turn on that radio station in the car; always listen. I dont have time to learn every song, but because Im always listening my ear still gets better.

Then, if you still dont know it; play. Play the 1, Play the 2-5-1, play something. I dont subscribe to the if I dont know it, dont play method. Because as a keyboard player, my job is to play. And I certainly dont want them to start saying well you didnt play half the service so we should only give you have the check. I dont like people playing with my money, so I play; because its my job.

[johnflindsey]

Thanks everyone for your replies, they were very helpful.  I will take them all to heart and keep hope alive.  Mean time what i have done, I made out a list of all the songs i have trouble with and I'm going to shed on them.  I do have a hand held zoom recorder and will start recording all of the service.  I do know some theory as far as the number system and progressions and how they work.  I 'm going to take each song and break them down to their basic progressions and put them back together.

Thanks guys.

[csedwards2]

you look different

[T-Block]

Then, if you still dont know it; play. Play the 1, Play the 2-5-1, play something. I dont subscribe to the if I dont know it, dont play method. Because as a keyboard player, my job is to play. And I certainly dont want them to start saying well you didnt play half the service so we should only give you have the check. I dont like people playing with my money, so I play; because its my job.

Seasoned musicians may be able to get away with this, but not everybody. Sometimes just playing something just to have music makes things worse. It's better not to play at all then to play something that messes up the song.

[karlmhoon]

Back in the old days, picking up unfamiliar songs was easier because the same chord changes were being used. These days, it's almost impossible to pick up an unfamiliar song and play it correctly because the music can be vastly different from the harmonies in the song.

My advice is if you don't know it, don't play. If you can't pick it up (or put something with it), don't play. It's not the end of the world. People expect you as a musician to be able to play and & every song perfectly and even ones they make up on the spot in whatever key they come up with (even ones not on the keyboard, lol) when the reality is nothing like that.

When you encounter these unfamiliar songs, write down the name of the song and learn it later.

I like this T BLOCK

[Hasmonean1]

People expect you as a musician to be able to play and & every song perfectly and even ones they make up on the spot in whatever key they come up with (even ones not on the keyboard, lol) when the reality is nothing like that.

Has anyone been successful playing someone into the right key after they have started out wrong?

Can it be done?

[berbie]

Has anyone been successful playing someone into the right key after they have started out wrong?

Can it be done?

I think that's kinda hard to do, Hasmonean.  If they really want to sing in a certain key, they don't usually mean to change it. If everybody else is singing in one key and they're in another and they don't know it, good luck. 

If they stay in one key, it is not hard to pick THEM up usually.  The most problematic situation is when they change keys throughout the song.  Personally, I haven't been able to play them into key.  However, I can't say that it can't be done entirely.  Maybe more experienced musicians can.

[stix_clgi]

Has anyone been successful playing someone into the right key after they have started out wrong?

Can it be done?

We actually do this pretty often at church....but my church doesn't have a lot of "singers" if you understand what I mean. Most of the P&W leaders and "soloists" have very good tone, and can generally hear what key the music is in, but if it changes a half step, or even a whole, they'll change right along with it and not even notice that the key changed. Every so often they'll start flat or sharp, and we'll play along until the turnaround....I'll look at the organist and nod, and we shift up or down a half step....it usually works very well, and we do it more times than I can count lol.

[SketchMan3]

We actually do this pretty often at church....but my church doesn't have a lot of "singers" if you understand what I mean. Most of the P&W leaders and "soloists" have very good tone, and can generally hear what key the music is in, but if it changes a half step, or even a whole, they'll change right along with it and not even notice that the key changed. Every so often they'll start flat or sharp, and we'll play along until the turnaround....I'll look at the organist and nod, and we shift up or down a half step....it usually works very well, and we do it more times than I can count lol.

Same, although usually it is because the keyboard has been transposed, not because of the singers

Also it doesn't happen very often

[phbrown]

Has anyone been successful playing someone into the right key after they have started out wrong?

Can it be done?

yep, our church we trained everyone to sing in Db ... even the deacons who are sorta tone deaf sing in Db now

how did we do this?

by playing only in Db whenever they song a song after a few years bam everyone is on the same page