LearnGospelMusic.com Community

Please login or register.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.  (Read 1993 times)

Ascension

  • Guest
Been playing for many many years in what I thought were some pretty good bands --- that was till i won't up with the new church.
 Going from the pretty generic "normal" worship world to a Black Gospel setting has been a BIG culture shock and frankly right now I'm struggling to keep up with the guys where I am now. Musicianship is at SO much higher a level  in these circles than anything I have ever encountered it's mind boggling!!
 Anybody got any tips in playing this stuff??
Been playing in Black Pentecostal Churches for many years but these guys are flat handing me my head!!
For example this is one of the Sunday set songs and the guys in this band are probably better players than the guys on the recording!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrmPfRMDCP0
They say I'm holding my own but I am WAY out of my comfort zone here!
 This sure ain't the normal United and Jesus Culture amateur hour band material it's a whole other world in chops!
 One word here HELP!! 

Ascension

  • Guest
Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 05:25:09 PM »
This is my long time "normal" band and we many times will play for hours never knowing where we are going till we get there so I am not an inexperienced player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPj_I_WhN88
 However at this new place I am way out of my comfort zone as these guys are flat MONSTER players and this stuff is flat not computing on these melody lines and changes!!

Offline jonesl78

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 889
    • http://

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 03:53:58 PM »
There are a few reasons why playing Urban gospel can be difficult. (At least in my experience)

1. In most other genre's, the guitar is the central instrument. In gospel, it is in a supportive role. The music is generally built around the core instruments which include keys, bass, and drums. In some churches you will simply find just an organ. In other words, you go from being the star on the basketball team to being just the rebounder.

2. Today's music is heavily based on jazz. You're not going to hear to many simple triads in the music unless it is a CCM based song. The chords are usually extended and or altered to some degree. 

3. Not too many resources. You can find lots of guitar tutorials for CCM music but little to none for gospel songs. (Before this site, playing gospel anything was a mystery to anybody that did not have a music mentor in church)   

Here's a guy that has some pretty good gospel guitar. Check out his videos

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JTY69fVOg

Offline gtrdave

  • Moderator
  • LGM Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4893
  • Gender: Male
  • Men always ought to pray and not lose heart.
    • Check out some of my music!

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 10:29:51 PM »
Definitely study up on your jazz-esque theory; non-inversion compound chords, extended/altered chords, jazz turn-arounds, flat keys and more.
No, most Gospel music is not the typical I-IV-V-iv progression found in most CCM/P&W music these days, but it's not much different than the old-school Gospel that's been around for decades, it's just a little better recorded and produced these days.
If you have access to a good keyboardist who will sit with you and work through the progressions, that would be helpful, especially if you understand the mechanics and theory of what they're playing.
Music theory is not always music reality.

Offline Cwadroon

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 01:33:31 PM »
Like yourself, Ive been really focusing on improving my playing and theory also(played for over twenty years and have recently started playing with new groups), and my advice from that would be to combine what both these wise gents have offered, along with trying to not feel overwhelmed, there is usually at least one guy in the group who will tell you if youre stinking up the joint lol trust me I know !. Sounds like you are fitting in well so far. If you dont have the opportunity to spend time with the keyboardist, and you have basic music theory, I would suggest listening to as much music as you can if you arent too familiar with the styles. Jazz voicings as was mentioned are used alot, extended voicings 7's 9's 11's 13's, altered chords,, using secondary dominants, chord substitutions, diminished and other passing chords, cadences, jazz progressions , etc etc etc.  Listen to the embellishments other players use,  how the guitarist sits in, on or out of the mix and groove.  Just some quick random thoughts, hope one of them helps.

Ascension

  • Guest
Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 11:32:48 PM »
Here's a guy that has some pretty good gospel guitar. Check out his videos

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JTY69fVOg
Interesting that you would post that clip in particular.
 The official video for the song was done here in Birmingham at our 5 Points South. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuuZMg6NVeA
2 days before the video was done we did a Prayer Furnace 27 hour event right across the street from where the video was filmed and this is a clip from our 2 hour set I'm the guitar player here>
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lmwBwWs6dw

Offline Chris K.

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • The Chris K. Band

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2015, 10:04:59 AM »
I feel you bro. I  play for two churches. One plays traditional the other contrmporary. It took a min to find my bearings but once I sat down with the keyboardist i got the concept. Actually realized I was playing diminished chords and suspended and adding 9ths and 13ths on my chords. Didnt know what they were but they sounded good. He helped me figure out where to put them and how to transition between chords and phrases. You're probably doing better than you realize since they havent told you to not come back lol. Just keep listenig to alot of jazz and guys like eric walls and jubu. Its all gospel. The guitar just plays a different role

Offline jbohonos

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 10:02:47 AM »
A few posters have commented on the guitar taking a backseat or playing a different role… this is true!
 
One practical suggestion that might help you to get in the ‘backseat’ is to play smaller chord voicings. Many guitarist start by learning voicings that cover 5-6 strings (bar chords and open chords) but when you are playing with a an organ player who likes to use a lot of substitutions those big voicings can get in the way a little. I’d recommend using 2-3 note chord fragments. Any good book on jazz comping will address these small voicings.

I remember seeing an interview with Jazz great Joe Pass who basically said that when playing with a keyboard the #1 most important thing a guitarist can do is stay out of the way. He suggests small voicings that focus on 3rds and 7ths which leave the organist open to add 9ths, 11’th and 13ths at his/her discursion.
If you are like me the idea of leaving out roots and 5ths will be a little counter-intuitive, but just trust that you’re bassist and organist will cover those for you.

Also, one of my mentors once told me to find a small voicing and then think about the guitar as a cowbell. ( I trust you’ve seen the SNL skit). By playing fewer notes and focusing on playing interesting rhythmus you can basically turn yourself into a member of the percussion section. (This works especially well if you only have one drummer and no aux-percussion)


I hope this helps. I watched part of your video before responding but your guitar was low in the mix so I couldn’t really catch how you were approaching the changes. If you are already doing all the things I just suggested my bad :-)  

Offline funkStrat_97

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5422
  • Gender: Male
  • Da' House Rocka' is in Da' House!
    • Facebook

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 01:22:25 PM »
A few posters have commented on the guitar taking a backseat or playing a different role… this is true!
 
One practical suggestion that might help you to get in the ‘backseat’ is to play smaller chord voicings. Many guitarist start by learning voicings that cover 5-6 strings (bar chords and open chords) but when you are playing with a an organ player who likes to use a lot of substitutions those big voicings can get in the way a little. I’d recommend using 2-3 note chord fragments. Any good book on jazz comping will address these small voicings.

I remember seeing an interview with Jazz great Joe Pass who basically said that when playing with a keyboard the #1 most important thing a guitarist can do is stay out of the way. He suggests small voicings that focus on 3rds and 7ths which leave the organist open to add 9ths, 11’th and 13ths at his/her discursion.
If you are like me the idea of leaving out roots and 5ths will be a little counter-intuitive, but just trust that you’re bassist and organist will cover those for you.

Also, one of my mentors once told me to find a small voicing and then think about the guitar as a cowbell. ( I trust you’ve seen the SNL skit). By playing fewer notes and focusing on playing interesting rhythmus you can basically turn yourself into a member of the percussion section. (This works especially well if you only have one drummer and no aux-percussion)


I hope this helps. I watched part of your video before responding but your guitar was low in the mix so I couldn’t really catch how you were approaching the changes. If you are already doing all the things I just suggested my bad :-) 

For me, I learned the opposite.  I learned the fragments first and then stepped up to the bigger, full chords.  There really was no real "need" for me to play big chords because all I was doing was filling in small pockets here and there.  The music at the church I now attend is more guitar-driven so full chord voicings are a must.
“Don't bother to give God instructions, just report for duty”
- Corrie Ten Boom

Offline jbohonos

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5

Re: Really struggling to catch on to "Urban Gospel" in my new Church.
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 10:54:29 PM »
I think the way you learned makes a lot of sense... Moving from small chords to big. I'm certainly not knocking big voicings. They are certainly a must in many contexts.
Pages: [1]   Go Up