Hi,
I must say that there was a time when I did listen to secular music, but being that my mother and father we Christians and I would go to church throughout the week as well as the weekend, there was always a feeling that listening to secular music was wrong.
I know that there are plenty of “so called REASONS” why Christians should listen to secular music, but I say if the music is not unto the glory of God it should not be for us. Today we have become far to slack and we tolerate far too much; we are supposed to be in the world and not of the world.
PianoWiz...
3- If you've answered yes to #3, then you should know that jazz is often based off of love songs (unless you meant gospel jazz), and is thus a secular peice. If you listen to classical music, then you should realize that many classical songs have the same purpose as many love songs do, and therefore was not made to the glory of GOD, so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too.
quote]
I can see what you are saying but the end of your statement pushes it too far for me. ( so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too) If people want to listen to love music or classical music then they can go for it as it is not contrary to the word of God although it is secular, on the otherhand if that same person wanted to listen to pantera or slipknot or godsmack talking bad about God or some r and b talking about shaking yo booty on the floor and having sex or clubbing then there would be a problem with that.
We can not just lump everything into one category. But I guess we can all believe what we want. Here is what the bible states.
Romans 14
1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I like to state what I believe because it is what makes me who I am. I know what it is to have my music choices attacked because soon after my salvation I started listening to christian rock and some church people thought it was wrong and ungodly. My goal is to listen to music that will not hinder my walk but build me up daily. If I was married then love music could serve that purpous, classical music does the same; it can give you rest and relaxation, evil music that goes against God, it will profit a man nothing.
Ultimately though my opinion really does not matter because we all stand before God in the end. In the end it will not be my opinion against anyone elses but we will all stand before God and have Him tell us what He thinks.
I am fully persuaded in my mind about my views on this subject so I am good. If everyone else is fully persuaded in their minds then so be it, you are good as well.
1. If a friend told you about how much he loved someone, would you listen?
If you've answered yes to #1, then love songs can't be much worse because love poetry is only expression in verse, instead of the prose that people normally talk in. If your friend spoke only in verse like Shakespearean characters, you would be listening to love poetry w/out the title.
Quote from: Scales271. If a friend told you about how much he loved someone, would you listen?
If you've answered yes to #1, then love songs can't be much worse because love poetry is only expression in verse, instead of the prose that people normally talk in. If your friend spoke only in verse like Shakespearean characters, you would be listening to love poetry w/out the title.
This is not an answer to the poll. I just have a question about the pattern of things.
Do you think that deductive reasoning in such a fashion as this is a fair and safe way of approaching God's words and thoughts?? And to do that on top of God saying that His thoughts are not like ours? This is similar to how the Pharasees came up with their Mishna, which was one of the issues Jesus slammed them hard for.
I'm not judging anyone, I'm just saying that the "Ifs, thens, therefores" most of the time don't work when talking about God's thoughts.
Tony
Quote from: Scales27
3- If you've answered yes to #3, then you should know that jazz is often based off of love songs (unless you meant gospel jazz), and is thus a secular peice. If you listen to classical music, then you should realize that many classical songs have the same purpose as many love songs do, and therefore was not made to the glory of GOD, so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too.
quote]
I can see what you are saying but the end of your statement pushes it too far for me. ( so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too) If people want to listen to love music or classical music then they can go for it as it is not contrary to the word of God although it is secular, on the otherhand if that same person wanted to listen to pantera or slipknot or godsmack talking bad about God or some r and b talking about shaking yo booty on the floor and having sex or clubbing then there would be a problem with that.
We can not just lump everything into one category. But I guess we can all believe what we want.
I like to state what I believe because it is what makes me who I am. I know what it is to have my music choices attacked because soon after my salvation I started listening to christian rock and some church people thought it was wrong and ungodly. My goal is to listen to music that will not hinder my walk but build me up daily. If I was married then love music could serve that purpous, classical music does the same; it can give you rest and relaxation, evil music that goes against God, it will profit a man nothing.
See, I knew that I should have rephrased or omitted that part. I agree completely with what you just said. Like I told Tondee, I took the wrong approach. For this one, I should have simply asked if anyone believed that Secular music is wrong (I said at the beginning w/out provocative content.) but that secular peices are not and then asked for their perspective. I listen to them both because I do not see the harm in either of them as long as I use discretion
READ THIS!!! I ran the last debate because I was looking for someone to bring up good reasons why listening to secular music is wrong. I want to place my strongest arguments up against theirs so that I can basically debate. Debating is for Christians because it helps them minister to people of other religions. Perhaps even convert them. Its good training. Now for my perspective on sec music. I actually listen to secular music more than gospel music. Not for the words always, sometimes because the beat just sounds good or I like the style of the singer. My perspective on music is this: If you read poetry with the same content, then you should have no problem listening to a song like that. Love poetry and other kinds are not wrong because they are only organized expression. You would listen to a friend talk about how much he loves his girlfriend right? So poetry is no different. Add some instruments and you've got a song. I'm eclectic. I listen to all kinds of music; rap, rock & roll, R&B, gospel, go-go, blues, jazz, country, oldies, spirituals, crunk music, reggae, reggaeton, latin, salsa, greek, inspirational, kids(ok maybe not), and many other kinds. I'm not sure about crunk music and reggaeton because I can't remember the content but, eventually some safe lyrics will accompany those styles (the styles are nice though). I listen to all kinds of music, but almost always look for ways to make a gospel version. The problem with alot of gospel songs is that many are inaccurate, and some that use pop styles try to hard and fail. I give kirk Franklin his Props, he has some good songs. But sometimes he is just corny. I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song. Songwriters need to stop trying to be cool and hip for the "young people"(I'm 17 if you ask) and just make the songs for the entire audience of music listeners(though everybody won't like every song that everybody else likes). To appeal to a group, make something the way you would if you were one of them, not in hopes that your counterfeit style will be similar but just as good. Anyone who isnt afraid to listen to worldly that writes well try this, listen to a real nice worldly song. Pay attention to how the words are formed, to how the beats moves. Then, change the words to something similar with a message from God in it. Rewrite it over and over. Try to put in as much word as possible. Dont look at it as gospel in worldly form, see it as a worldly song with gospel in it. Rewrite it some more. when you have apolished work, just play the song on the piano or listen to the song. Sing along with your words. See how much you'd like it if you were in the world. How much do you like it? It is good to listen to worldly music because you can mix appealing styles with your piano playing/song writing. Where do you think contemporary piano playing/gospel came from?
I listen to all kinds of music, but almost always look for ways to make a gospel version. The problem with a lot of gospel songs is that many are inaccurate, and some that use pop styles try to hard and fail. I give Kirk Franklin his Props, he has some good songs. But sometimes he is just corny. I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song.
What you said about 80-90% of the songs on the radio, OK, I was really going to say that 85% of the songs are bad but that wouldn't help my argument. I listen to CD's anyway. I very seldom listen to the radio because I have to keep changing stations, I don't listen to certain kinds of songs and I don't like radio commercials.
I must ask you, are you saying that listening to any kind of secular music is a weight? If you are, then I cannot agree with you. Most secular songs are a weight. Especially the songs of my generation. Some secular songs, however, may actually help Christains with there walk with Christ. Of course this is totally dependant on how the person responds to it. Lets say a Christain woman slips up and haves sex and discovers that she's pregnant and is so ashamed that she is considering abortion to cover it up. Maybe Nick Cannon's songs, "Can I live" can minister to her and give her the strength to keep her baby, and thus not sin further by killing it, and by not sinning that second time she is closer to GOD for making the right decision. GOD can use anybody to speak to someone, but nobody can do the full will of GOD without first accepting him into his life.
Now that we've gotten on the same page pretty much, this isn't much of a debate. It's become a discussion, which is good. Not as fun as a debate but is good. I hope and pray that you get through whatever has been bothering you. If you don't agree with anything I just said then we can draw it out a little longer. If not then I'm sure we'll "face off" again.
I agree with scales 27. I feel exactly the same way as you. I like all types of music. I love God and Gospel music, but when I landed a job as a high school, black show band director, I began to listen to more secular music. Not to backslide, but my students began to bring me songs that they wanted to play. I wrote the music for my band, therefore, I had to listen to some songs hundreds of times to get all the parts. After hearing them so often, I realized that I liked them and liked hearing my band play them. I don't think this made me any less of a christian. So is it wrong to listen to a band playing secular songs??
just to highlight something from that long, paragraphless post that I did six months ago, can you answer these questions, just for ex., I'm only making a case for love songs w/out provocative lyrics
1. If a friend told you about how much he loved someone, would you listen?
2. Do you listen to and/read love poetry that is not gospel?
3. Do you listen to Jazz, Classical piano, or any other wordless peices of music?
1- If you've answered yes to #1, then love songs can't be much worse because love poetry is only expression in verse, instead of the prose that people normally talk in. If your friend spoke only in verse like Shakespearean characters, you would be listening to love poetry w/out the title. (and then see #2)
2- If you've answered yes to #2, then you are, in a sense, listening to a love song w/out the beat, as most love song's lyrics are written before the music is added.
3- If you've answered yes to #3, then you should know that jazz is often based off of love songs (unless you meant gospel jazz), and is thus a secular peice. If you listen to classical music, then you should realize that many classical songs have the same purpose as many love songs do, and therefore was not made to the glory of GOD, so if secular music is a sin, then listening to secular peices is sinful too.
If you've answered no to all questions then you are very firm in your veiw of secular music and I admire your dedication to it (and also cannot persuade you)
READ THIS!!! I ran the last debate because I was looking for someone to bring up good reasons why listening to secular music is wrong. I want to place my strongest arguments up against theirs so that I can basically debate. Debating is for Christians because it helps them minister to people of other religions. Perhaps even convert them. Its good training. Now for my perspective on sec music. I actually listen to secular music more than gospel music. Not for the words always, sometimes because the beat just sounds good or I like the style of the singer. My perspective on music is this: If you read poetry with the same content, then you should have no problem listening to a song like that. Love poetry and other kinds are not wrong because they are only organized expression. You would listen to a friend talk about how much he loves his girlfriend right? So poetry is no different. Add some instruments and you've got a song. I'm eclectic. I listen to all kinds of music; rap, rock & roll, R&B, gospel, go-go, blues, jazz, country, oldies, spirituals, crunk music, reggae, reggaeton, latin, salsa, greek, inspirational, kids(ok maybe not), and many other kinds. I'm not sure about crunk music and reggaeton because I can't remember the content but, eventually some safe lyrics will accompany those styles (the styles are nice though). I listen to all kinds of music, but almost always look for ways to make a gospel version. The problem with alot of gospel songs is that many are inaccurate, and some that use pop styles try to hard and fail. I give kirk Franklin his Props, he has some good songs. But sometimes he is just corny. I want to see someone make a gospel song that appeals to the world so much that it lives on like the world's songs do. At least get a song on a secular radio station regularly. Smokie Norful has done this (radio) so the gospel message that he preaches is heard. Someone needs to make a song that is just like a worldly song. Songwriters need to stop trying to be cool and hip for the "young people"(I'm 17 if you ask) and just make the songs for the entire audience of music listeners(though everybody won't like every song that everybody else likes). To appeal to a group, make something the way you would if you were one of them, not in hopes that your counterfeit style will be similar but just as good. Anyone who isnt afraid to listen to worldly that writes well try this, listen to a real nice worldly song. Pay attention to how the words are formed, to how the beats moves. Then, change the words to something similar with a message from God in it. Rewrite it over and over. Try to put in as much word as possible. Dont look at it as gospel in worldly form, see it as a worldly song with gospel in it. Rewrite it some more. when you have apolished work, just play the song on the piano or listen to the song. Sing along with your words. See how much you'd like it if you were in the world. How much do you like it? It is good to listen to worldly music because you can mix appealing styles with your piano playing/song writing. Where do you think contemporary piano playing/gospel came from?
Between songs, Tye ministered to the saints. He said, “We praise God in church, and will shout and dance as long as the music is going. However the atmosphere for some of us will change as soon as we sit in the car and turn on the radio. For others, the atmosphere will change as soon as our cell phones ring, with some of these ringers and i-tunes we have put on our phones. You can’t expect to hear all kinds of music and then expect to hear from God.”
This is what Tye Tribbett druning his live recording in Philadelphia,PA last December. I agree with him whole heartedly
[sorry about that. This is what Tye Tribbett Said during his live recording. I made some grammar mistakes/quote]
Your rating system is a little off. First, Jazz has many different forms, so to conclude that a jazz song is a love song is too encompassing. Also with music we must examine it in terms of both the music and the lyrics. Relative to the music, jazz takes has a lot of it's roots from the church. It is moving and evokes feelings. Look at the basis of Ray Charles' best selling music--a derivative of Church music. (I know Ray wouldn't be classified as a jazz artist, but I hope you see my point). Music and song is something that belongs to God. Genesis speaks of the first song when the angels and stars sang praises to God's on his great creation. Personnaly, I feel that it is our music that has been pilfered, so why should I run away from it. And for those who have comments on the "seculari sound" of contemprary church music, what's wrong with taking back what was ours to begin with. Plus by definitition, it the music is religious in nature, it can't be classified as secular!! At best, its just a form of church music that's not pleasing to you.
Regarding Classical music you are again grouping too many different things together. Many classical pieces have no words and were written as exercise pieces, so how can you generalize and say they are based on love songs. Secondly, quick research reveals that many of the classical composers made their living off of writing commissioned masses, requiems and other works for the Church. Though primary the Catholic Church, for God's House nontheless. Through the years, their origin may have been lost, and even used in today's commercials, but does that make them secular? Also, If you open a Hymn book find Joyful, Joyful, We adore Thee, Jesus, I My Cross Have Taken or Hark The Voice of Jesus Is Calling , you will see that Mozart wrote the music for all three. Someone later on came along added their words, and turned it ito a hymn. Not to mention how many songs in the Hymn books are sung to the tune of an old irish melody. Should these songs be abolished from the hymn books?
I am a lover of good clean music regardless of the genre, and feel that even secular artists can sing gospel songs. Their songs may be an expression of a supressed spirit within them seeking to get out, and although some may think that they are using God to make money, I'd like those same folks to consider that fact that it is them who is really being used. Used by God to spread words of his goodness, love and providence to those who don't go to church, who don't have a religious foundation, and who might not otherwise recieve or be receptive to hearing the messages contained in the songs.
As you survey the new testament, Jesus always attracted people by what they could identify with. With the fishermen Peter, James and John, it was through fishing and telling them they could become fishers of men. With the farming types, he told parables about the mustard seed, the fig tree, and so on. You see, Jesus though never compromising his mission nor his purpose, always met the people on their level. If to be a Christian is to be Christ-like, is there anything wrong with following one of the models that he used? Let's get ourselves out of the Church and more into the lost massess and be less sanctimonious about what a "good" christian should or shouldn't do and be about winning souls on the outside and then bringing them into the Churches. Finally, if some of us want to so strongly rate (or judge) christians on their music listening tendacies, don't stop at that leisure hobby, we should also include discussions on the the appropiateness of going to plays, seeing the opera, watching sports, etc. Better yet, let's all become Amish or Menonites and do away with all contact with the outside world! Oops, please forgive me, I digressed way too far!!
Anyways, it was a good question and hopefully people on both sides and those sitting on the fence will attempt to understand the responses in this thread even if at this point in time they don't agree. And please don't let your personal convictions be a judgement pushed onto others.
Between songs, Tye ministered to the saints. He said, “We praise God in church, and will shout and dance as long as the music is going. However the atmosphere for some of us will change as soon as we sit in the car and turn on the radio. For others, the atmosphere will change as soon as our cell phones ring, with some of these ringers and i-tunes we have put on our phones. You can’t expect to hear all kinds of music and then expect to hear from God.”
This is what Tye Tribbett druning his live recording in Philadelphia,PA last December. I agree with him whole heartedly
First off, you said that secular music has spirits? Who did you hear that from and what evidence did they give you? Look at the post that I just did and read the one I responded to. What evidence do you have on the alleged spirits of other music. Don't "mystify" everything. When people listen to music they like to move with it. IT'S JUST HOW THEY RESPOND TO IT. Some act strange and some just like to chill and enjoy the song (like me! ;D). I never advocated songs that sell sex and songs that make violence look cool. I voted certain kinds of music on the poll because some music is ok and some music is ungodly. Not GODly, however, is not neccessarily ungodly. Just because something doesn't uplift GOD, that doesn't mean that it uplifts Satan, or that GOD doesn't approve. Before you respond, I challenge you to go back and read every previous post so that I will not have to enumerate the fallacies that you may post (there were many in your other too). I challenge you too, allonesound. If ya'll still disagree then I have no problems reiterating the planks of my thesis that not all secular music is bad. I'll debate even if you don't read all of them. Just don't get too emotional, we are family. (LGM family!!)
Your rating system is a little off. First, Jazz has many different forms, so to conclude that a jazz song is a love song is too encompassing. Also with music we must examine it in terms of both the music and the lyrics. Relative to the music, jazz takes has a lot of it's roots from the church. It is moving and evokes feelings. Look at the basis of Ray Charles' best selling music--a derivative of Church music. (I know Ray wouldn't be classified as a jazz artist, but I hope you see my point). Music and song is something that belongs to God. Genesis speaks of the first song when the angels and stars sang praises to God's on his great creation. Personnaly, I feel that it is our music that has been pilfered, so why should I run away from it. And for those who have comments on the "seculari sound" of contemprary church music, what's wrong with taking back what was ours to begin with. Plus by definitition, it the music is religious in nature, it can't be classified as secular!! At best, its just a form of church music that's not pleasing to you.
Regarding Classical music you are again grouping too many different things together. Many classical pieces have no words and were written as exercise pieces, so how can you generalize and say they are based on love songs. Secondly, quick research reveals that many of the classical composers made their living off of writing commissioned masses, requiems and other works for the Church. Though primary the Catholic Church, for God's House nontheless. Through the years, their origin may have been lost, and even used in today's commercials, but does that make them secular? Also, If you open a Hymn book find Joyful, Joyful, We adore Thee, Jesus, I My Cross Have Taken or Hark The Voice of Jesus Is Calling , you will see that Mozart wrote the music for all three. Someone later on came along added their words, and turned it ito a hymn. Not to mention how many songs in the Hymn books are sung to the tune of an old irish melody. Should these songs be abolished from the hymn books?
I am a lover of good clean music regardless of the genre, and feel that even secular artists can sing gospel songs. Their songs may be an expression of a supressed spirit within them seeking to get out, and although some may think that they are using God to make money, I'd like those same folks to consider that fact that it is them who is really being used. Used by God to spread words of his goodness, love and providence to those who don't go to church, who don't have a religious foundation, and who might not otherwise recieve or be receptive to hearing the messages contained in the songs.
As you survey the new testament, Jesus always attracted people by what they could identify with. With the fishermen Peter, James and John, it was through fishing and telling them they could become fishers of men. With the farming types, he told parables about the mustard seed, the fig tree, and so on. You see, Jesus though never compromising his mission nor his purpose, always met the people on their level. If to be a Christian is to be Christ-like, is there anything wrong with following one of the models that he used? Let's get ourselves out of the Church and more into the lost massess and be less sanctimonious about what a "good" christian should or shouldn't do and be about winning souls on the outside and then bringing them into the Churches. Finally, if some of us want to so strongly rate (or judge) christians on their music listening tendacies, don't stop at that leisure hobby, we should also include discussions on the the appropiateness of going to plays, seeing the opera, watching sports, etc. Better yet, let's all become Amish or Menonites and do away with all contact with the outside world! Oops, please forgive me, I digressed way too far!!
Anyways, it was a good question and hopefully people on both sides and those sitting on the fence will attempt to understand the responses in this thread even if at this point in time they don't agree. And please don't let your personal convictions be a judgement pushed onto others.
here is my view of this ;D ;D
no matter what someone else says, most of the time people will ask the question "can you be saived and listen to worldly music" ither way it will be a straight yes or a straight no. THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN!!! ;)! so for the people who say its okay from what im hearing you are justifying yourself and getting with other people to condone you in your wrong by using "God is the creator of all, we are created in Gods image ect" but thats just bogus. yes God is the creator of all but the devil has his two cents too. yall are taking that straight out of context. :-\
then for the other side of things for the people who say it is wrong to listen to secular music is being harped on for saying so. if you are saived you will not even have the desire to do the things of the world. the bible says "come out from among them and be ye seperated and touch not the uncleen things" (im at work so ill get the scriptures for you). The thread should be reasons why you cant be saived and listen to worldly music.... you cant serve two masters its either God or the devil. yea i already know a lot of people will disagree with what im saying but if yall read yalls bible and stop taking things out of context and trying to justify yourselves in your wrong doing then this would not be such a big deal :-\ ;)!
Here is my major questions for those of you who think its okay to listen to secular music?
1. WHAT MAKES YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO THIS MUSIC/WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT? Chord structure, lyrical content at times, the same things that make me want to listen to gospel music. The groove.
2. WHAT IS WRONG WITH JUST LISTNING TO CHRISTIAN MUSIC? Absolutely nothing.
3. IS THE MUSIC YOU LISTENING TO GLORIFYING GOD IN ANY WAY? Yes, absolutely.
4. WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A "BAD" SECULAR SONG AND A "GOOD" SECULAR SONG? probably lyrical content. I know for certain it has nothing to do with the beat or melody. Some secular melodies are better than gospel and vice versa. It all depends on the producer. Does Jermain Dupri and Usher sometimes make great music yes. Does Kurt Carr and Kirk Franklin yes. My point is I can't answer for them. Can Usher go to heaven and Kirk Franklin end up in hell? Absolutely, but that's God's decision to make and not yours or mine. The music ain't saving nobody period. Belief, confession, and repentance is! God bless you. Supprt whomever you chose. I can't spend your money for you.
---- the way i grew up (may be old school) but however sin is sin no matter what it is if you die in the act and have not repented where will you go? ??? ??? think about it ;) :) ;D
here is my view of this ;D ;D
no matter what someone else says, most of the time people will ask the question "can you be saived and listen to worldly music" ither way it will be a straight yes or a straight no. THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN!!! ;)! so for the people who say its okay from what im hearing you are justifying yourself and getting with other people to condone you in your wrong by using "God is the creator of all, we are created in Gods image ect" but thats just bogus. yes God is the creator of all but the devil has his two cents too. yall are taking that straight out of context. :-\
then for the other side of things for the people who say it is wrong to listen to secular music is being harped on for saying so. if you are saived you will not even have the desire to do the things of the world. the bible says "come out from among them and be ye seperated and touch not the uncleen things" (im at work so ill get the scriptures for you). The thread should be reasons why you cant be saived and listen to worldly music.... you cant serve two masters its either God or the devil. yea i already know a lot of people will disagree with what im saying but if yall read yalls bible and stop taking things out of context and trying to justify yourselves in your wrong doing then this would not be such a big deal :-\ ;)!
Here is my major questions for those of you who think its okay to listen to secular music?
1. WHAT MAKES YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO THIS MUSIC/WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT?
2. WHAT IS WRONG WITH JUST LISTNING TO CHRISTIAN MUSIC?
3. IS THE MUSIC YOU LISTENING TO GLORIFYING GOD IN ANY WAY?
4. WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A "BAD" SECULAR SONG AND A "GOOD" SECULAR SONG?
---- the way i grew up (may be old school) but however sin is sin no matter what it is if you die in the act and have not repented where will you go? ??? ??? think about it ;) :) ;D
This one is just for you allforone
First of all, let me start by saying that you are using a serious logical fallacy called either/or. You make it appear that it has to be one thing or the other. Let me tell you what I mean. You first said that most of the time people will ask the question "can you be saived and listen to worldly music" ither way it will be a straight yes or a straight no. THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN!!! ;)! using that logic if you have even considered my previous arguments(which you probably haven't), you imply that if you listen to anything secular, you might as well listen to it all, and because of that you are sinning (am I right?). If I am, then let me point out that if you watch the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, you don't consider that to be the same as watching Real Sex or one of those other shows. Neither of them glorify GOD. But are you are sinning by watching real sex. am I right? so there is not necessarily a straight yes or a straight no. The in between lies in what you listen to.
I will start a whole other thread on this soon, but THIS WILL TRIP YOU OUT!!! Once you are saved your always saved. Salvation can't be lost. I'm not going to argue that right now, save your rebutals to that statement for the thread, if 4-his-glory doesn't think that it's too controversial. That is the only reason why I say that there is an in between. My answer is a straight yes.
The BIBLE says come out from among them...you know the rest. When it says touch not the unclean things, it means the unclean things. But is everything just clean or dirty? Some things are nuetral. Either/or is very unintelligent to use (for all I know you may be a genious, but I mean it doesn't make an intelligent argument). There is not just GOOD or BAD. There are things that are nuetral.
You also used circular reasoning. You primarily just restated your thesis in different ways without giving sufficient evidence. You basically just said that we interpret the BIBLE wrong and that no matter what we say, listening to secular music is wrong. You did give a bit of evidence that I addressed earlier, and that was it. When I challenged you, I was seriously challenging you to go back and review my posts. YOU CANNOT PROVE ME WRONG IF YOU DO NOT ADDRESS MY AGRGUMENTS. (I was making that sentence stand out, not yelling, for the record.).
Just to address your ending question, even if you died while fornicating, if you were saved, you would still go to heaven. Once again though, I'll discuss that later. If you want to, we can PM our debate about that if 4-his-glory (or a moderator) doesn't approve of such a strong, controversial topic (Can we lose our salvation).
Now to address your questions
1. I listen to any kind of music that I listen to because I like it. I'm eclectic, but I don't listen to every song from every genre. ex. I'll listen to "The mystery of iniquity" by Lauryn Hill but not P.I.M.P by 50 cent. I'll listen to "Love" by Musiq, but not "Naked" by Marques Houston.
I mainly listen to gospel and R&B. I listen to gospel because i like praising GOD in song on on an instrument. i also like singing in church (where I praise GOD in song and intrument). I listen to certain R&B songs because they sound nice, have beautiful instrumentals, and because I like I like the style. The point to most R&B songs that I listen to are songs about love, or songs that tell stories about love.
2. Nothing is wrong with listening to Christain music. To each his own. I never said that you should listen to other music, I just said that if you use proper discretion, you can.
3. Outside of gospel, the hip-hop, R&B, jazz, etc. very seldom glorifies GOD. GOD never said that everything you do has to glorify him in some way. If that was the case, then even watching the news would be a sin of omission (not doing something). As long as it does not advocate sin in any way, then it is not sin. It just isn't GODly either. THERE IS AN IN BETWEEN. Just get your nails painted and you, too, will be enjoying nuetral activity.
4. The differences between a "good" secular song and a "bad" secular song is what the words say. If it says "I put a hole in your chest for !@#$ing wit me," then it is obviously bad. If it says "I know I can, be what I wanna be," then it is a good secular song. THERE IS AN IN BETWEEN. In between songs are songs that flirt without sinful references, songs that tell stories that don't really help anyone but doesn't have any sinful refernces (like most reggae songs), and pretty much any wedding song that isn't gospel.
If you've even read this far, I hope you'll take my arguments, and my critique of your arguments seriously. When I was criticizing your arguments, I was not criticizing you, only your thinking. I took everything in your argument that I could find and debated against it. TRY IT. You never really addressed anything I said, and that makes your arguments weak. I know you didn't have the time to post full scriptures, so I won't give you a hard time on that. If you are going to argue a point though, make sure it's something you've seen for yourself, and not just something that someone told you. It makes YOU make so much more sense. It's what GOD says that counts. Not what I say, your mother, your pastor, or what you say. If GOD didn't say it directly then it's debateable but someone has to be right. (That's gonna be me ;D).
Ladies and Gentlemen:
You have been going on and on about this topic for a minute, but you haven't brought anything new to the discussion. Here's the bottom line as you have stated:
I really think that we as christians should be careful what we listen to because you don't want to speak or invite any unwanted spirits in. I heard that that stuff does happen!!!
Let the spirit guide you and you want go wrong. When we praise the Lord in church, rather singing or playing we should be able to tie those songs into scripture. At my church we don't play or sing any song that can not be tied into scripture.