LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Main => Ministry, M.O.M, Praise Teams and Choirs => Topic started by: NJDBalla on January 18, 2009, 08:50:04 PM
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The choir director of the Intermediate Choir(youth) at my church has a habit of singing songs that the choir hasn't sang in at least a year. Its like our band is put on the spot to play a song that the choir hasn't rehearsed since ancient times! Then after the service the director is angry with us because there was a "mishap" with the music. She says that since we are musicians, we should be able to play the songs, and to use our ear to play the songs. BUT, how can we play if we had no prior notification of what songs they were going to sing? I mean, this choir hasn't rehearsed since like September of last year!
I just wanted to know if anyone else has had this problem :-\...
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We still have the issue of the P&W leader not giving us the songs ahead of time. Do you know how annoying this is? We then get to church and she will be like "Here is the song list..." and i am looking at the songs and am like " I don't know these songs...". Then there is disappointment and stuff cuz the song she wants to sing we can't play.
I am like the solution is simple...send the blessed songs ahead of time. I cannot memorize ALL the songs we play and will need to rehearse. In fact i think it is godly to send the songs ahead and let the musicians prepare. Five minutes before service is NOT the right time to be haggling over what songs are to be played. :-\
This irritates me no end.
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Yes.
At my former church, the MOM asked me to play with them only because the regular guy was super late. But when I asked what were they gonna play, all she said was they're all "easy beats." That aint gonna work with me. I kept my seat. It's way too easy to blame the drummer. Basically this was a habit which is why I never ever worked with them. NEVER, EVER, EVER! I caught "flack" from folks about it but I didn't care because I knew the deal. It went a little deeper due to the work ethic. I am a professional when it comes to preparation. That was severly lacking with this particular individual. Some people feel that the title of "Director" apparently also entails having control of other people's memory.
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How about the Choir Director put the songs on CD's for the musicians?
Or would that take too much advance planning?
;)
What about when they change them on you at the last minute???
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Yes.
At my former church, the MOM asked me to play with them only because the regular guy was super late. But when I asked what were they gonna play, all she said was they're all "easy beats." That aint gonna work with me. I kept my seat. It's way too easy to blame the drummer. Basically this was a habit which is why I never ever worked with them. NEVER, EVER, EVER! I caught "flack" from folks about it but I didn't care because I knew the deal. It went a little deeper due to the work ethic. I am a professional when it comes to preparation. That was severly lacking with this particular individual. Some people feel that the title of "Director" apparently also entails having control of other people's memory.
You too? Another thing, I like playing the song the way it sounds and is sang on the CD. A lot of people say you can add what you want just "as long as ev'ryone does it." Wrong. That doesn't float with me. It sinks :D.
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How about the Choir Director put the songs on CD's for the musicians?
Or would that take too much advance planning?
;)
What about when they change them on you at the last minute???
OMG that same choir did that to us one time.
We had went to a different church.(Now you know when you go to a different church, you want ev'ryting[lol] to be on point and locked, right?)They were going to sing Faithful by like, Youthful Praise or Hez Walker or something. They changed it to Let's Celebrate by John P. Kee. They hadn't rehearsed that song in at least 2 years and then they pulled it out their....well you know ;), and sang that! i was P.O. On top of that all of the musicians had forgotten how to play it! It sounded horrible. :-\ Then their church's choir sang and they sounded awesome!...
Takes me back....
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I think she expecting you guys to be on a super advanced level, when you guys might not be there yet. You and the other band members need to tell her that you HAVE to have the songs in advance.Dont you guys have a weekly rehearal, why arent the songs being reviewed?
On the other hand i think that you should be going over the songs in your own private practice sessions. If you play each song at least once a week after learning it you wont have a problem playing when you need to. This is especially important for praise and worship and hymns. When the pastor or praise leader spontainiously sings a song, you wanna be right there with them even if they havent sang it in a while. (regardless of the key) (yes even the key of A) :D
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How about the Choir Director put the songs on CD's for the musicians?
Or would that take too much advance planning?
;)
What about when they change them on you at the last minute???
I dealt with that when I played with this young lady that used to be in a rather famous Gospel group. She was part of the P&W team and we were rehearsing her portion. During the two rehearsals I went to for this, the intro was done with a certain amount of intro hits. She rehearsed those hits with us the same way every time an them I brought the beat in and we did the song.
Well, Sunday morning rolls around and we do the song intro and when we get to the last hit, she wants to show out and do some runs on the last hit as I bring the beat in. I was following the MD and doing exactly what we had been rehearsing. She tried to add another hit and basically threw the whole band off as I was playing the full beat. When we were done, she voiced her displeasure with another musician and said she was mad at "that drummer" for messing up. That's what happens when you decide you want to put on a show. She wasn't ready for me.
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We don't have this problem in the choir anymore now that I'm the head musician, but we sure do have this problem with the praise team. They never practice, EVER but try to sing songs we haven't practiced or songs we sung ten years ago that only the core members know.
My people already know, if I don't know the song, I ain't playing. If we haven't rehearsed the song, I ain't playing. If you try to do something funky with the song, I will stop and let u go accapolco. ;)
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I've had that problem at other churches, but the problem I have at my current church is just a "lite" version of your problem. And I think we have it solved now.
Our Choir Director would come to Thursday rehearsal with a slate of songs to go through. Sometimes the pastor will have told her "I want this song for Sunday". That's all good. Where things got squirrelly is that her idea of "we got it, let's move on" is when the vocalists have all their parts down. She can't really tell when we (musicians) don't have it together, but is willing to move on with faith that we'll work it out on Sunday.
The band leader has now supplied us two CDs with all the material we will expect to be responsible for in 2009. We will rehearse on Saturdays. Musicians only. We'll use Saturdays to cycle through the stuff on the CDs and to polish up whtever we know for sure will be done on Sunday.
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I think she expecting you guys to be on a super advanced level, when you guys might not be there yet. You and the other band members need to tell her that you HAVE to have the songs in advance.Dont you guys have a weekly rehearal, why arent the songs being reviewed?
On the other hand i think that you should be going over the songs in your own private practice sessions. If you play each song at least once a week after learning it you wont have a problem playing when you need to. This is especially important for praise and worship and hymns. When the pastor or praise leader spontainiously sings a song, you wanna be right there with them even if they havent sang it in a while. (regardless of the key) (yes even the key of A) :D
Thats just it: this choir doesn't rehearse every week... The last time they rehearsed was back in September of last year.
Yeah, i should be going over the songs, but its hard when you don't know what to practice or what songs are going to be sung.(Thank God this choir only sings once a month ;D)
All the other choirs are on point and get the music they are singing to the band at least 3 days before the rehearsal.
My people already know, if I don't know the song, I ain't playing. If we haven't rehearsed the song, I ain't playing. If you try to do something funky with the song, I will stop and let u go accapolco. ;)
Amen, Amen!
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Musicians only rehearsals rule! :)
Sometimes it's the opposite, when the musicians have it together, but the vocals are scraggly - and an attitude of "It's okay, so-and-so is not here, we'll go over it Sunday morning"
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Musicians only rehearsals rule! :)
Once again, Amen, Amen! ;D
Not only are they productive(most of the time), but they are a lot of fun!
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Another problem I have... (with another choir)
...is when rehearsal is scheduled and hardly anyone shows up! >:( Then when you practice a song with a lead singer and on Sunday, the leader doesn't show up! Then once again we are sort of put on the spot to play another song that you haven't rehearsed!
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You too? Another thing, I like playing the song the way it sounds and is sang on the CD. A lot of people say you can add what you want just "as long as ev'ryone does it." Wrong. That doesn't float with me. It sinks :D.
Some people listen to the cd enough (maybe twice) to get just the gist of the song(s) and then use their expertise know-how to fill in the blank spaces...
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As far as words in the song, I don't really care as long you are not changing the message or music of the song.
But if, we are not playing it the way it is on the CD then as soon as you go off and do somethin' "funky" then, you're on your own, buddy 8)
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As far as words in the song, I don't really care as long you are not changing the message or music of the song.
But if, we are not playing it the way it is on the CD then as soon as you go off and do somethin' "funky" then, you're on your own, buddy 8)
"Play what you KNOW is right; not what you THINK is right" ...couldn't had said it better myself.
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HeHeHe :D thats like, my motto ;)
Another problem I sometimes have at my church is that I have to deal with show-offy musicians...
It's not that they can't have their moment, its just when my bass player goes off on a limb and does this sick-nasty lick/run and then comes back at the wrong time or on the wrong note!
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WOW TO NJDBalla:
I don't know how many of those i encountered, but wow.I'M ON THE FLIP SIDE, I sing, but can play the drums, bass, and trumpet, but in church, i just sing,for that reason alone.I've seen to many M.of M., or Directors, let there title go to there head, and just torture the musicians. What did we learn in all those theory classes ya'll: practice makes perfect.I think some directors, and pastors feel that your a musician, and know matter what, you should just be able to play!!WRONG!!
Anyway, i just gotta shake my head and say Pray!! brotha, Pray..
And As t-block said:
you try to do something funky with the song, I will stop and let u go accapolco.
now thats comedy!!! accapolco
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You right about that, prayer is the answer to all the problems that go on at church
*in best preaching voice*
Cuz if you pray!(Ha)
God!(Ha)
Ya'll aint gonna help me(Ha)
Touch yo naybuh and say
"Naybuh! God will do the rest!"
Somebody say Amen.... :D
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Come on!! Just play the song!!
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If you have good musicians, they should be able to play the music. So when you get spare time, just rehearse over all the songs that your choir sings. Just prepare yourself. You gotta take yourself and go through the songs and go back and remember how you got to that point. It is good to play bumpin songs, but you should go back and just refresh yourself because a musician is a job for the Lord. You have to prepare yourself.
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Another problem I have... (with another choir)
...is when rehearsal is scheduled and hardly anyone shows up! >:( Then when you practice a song with a lead singer and on Sunday, the leader doesn't show up! Then once again we are sort of put on the spot to play another song that you haven't rehearsed!
Big time cosign!!!!
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Another problem I have... (with another choir)
...is when rehearsal is scheduled and hardly anyone shows up! >:( Then when you practice a song with a lead singer and on Sunday, the leader doesn't show up! Then once again we are sort of put on the spot to play another song that you haven't rehearsed!
That problem is easily remedied by practicing more than enough songs to compensate for any last minute changes on Sundays. ;)
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>:( Then when you practice a song with a lead singer and on Sunday, the leader doesn't show up! Then once again we are sort of put on the spot to play another song that you haven't rehearsed!
That happened to me this week. The Band practice 2 songs for like and hour and a half on saturday, they were instrumentals that the guitar player was gonna lead on. So sunday comes around and dude says he's not coming because he's tired. We ended up not doing the songs and wasting half of my only day off
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That happened to me this week. The Band practice 2 songs for like and hour and a half on saturday, they were instrumentals that the guitar player was gonna lead on. So sunday comes around and dude says he's not coming because he's tired. We ended up not doing the songs and wasting half of my only day off
How could they be so...*echoes*Heartless?
Yeah we just practiced Donald Lawrence's "Seasons" and we had it down. Everyone was together on it and the choir sounded great. Mind you, it was the only thing I had practiced for that last week and a half. Sunday rolls along, and the leader doesn't show up! I was devastated. I wasn't into the rest of the service! >:(
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I was told to learn, "God Kept Me" by Kurt Carr on the bass. They let me borrow a bass and everything. Sunday rolls around and they play it 100% different than the version on the recording because (apparently) no body else bothered to listen to the song so they just winged it. >:(
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True. Seems every other song has to be transposed down to fit the singers' range...
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True. Seems every other song has to be transposed down to fit the singers' range...
I hate that because its sort of more work on the musicians. They have to learn the song, then they have to transpose it down to the singer's key. Unless they change the key on their computers but not everyone knows how to do that...
I might just start to demand that they sing it in the original key or don't sing it at all. Is that selfish?
I was told to learn, "God Kept Me" by Kurt Carr on the bass. They let me borrow a bass and everything. Sunday rolls around and they play it 100% different than the version on the recording because (apparently) no body else bothered to listen to the song so they just winged it. >:(
Oooh thats another one. My bass player has been playing for like 19 more years than I've been playing keys. He should be beasty, right?. :-\Eh, not so much. I still tell him his bass line. The other thing, the songs that they sang before I started playing, I had to go back and learn. Turns out my bass player was playing most of the songs horribly wrong. For me, its kinda hard to play and call out numbers, then realize he doesn't understand, then have to call out notes! Its really frustrating knowing that I have to figure out the bass licks and the piano licks and I only play one instrument. :-\
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I might just start to demand that they sing it in the original key or don't sing it at all. Is that selfish?
Well, I see the point of transposing if the song is ridiculously high or low.
But sometimes it's just sheer laziness, or the desire to keep in the congregation's 'range'. Trouble is, a lot of current Gospel songs have really low verses, then shoot up high for the chorus parts...
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I hate that because its sort of more work on the musicians. They have to learn the song, then they have to transpose it down to the singer's key. Unless they change the key on their computers but not everyone knows how to do that...
I might just start to demand that they sing it in the original key or don't sing it at all. Is that selfish?
Oooh thats another one. My bass player has been playing for like 19 more years than I've been playing keys. He should be beasty, right?. :-\Eh, not so much. I still tell him his bass line. The other thing, the songs that they sang before I started playing, I had to go back and learn. Turns out my bass player was playing most of the songs horribly wrong. For me, its kinda hard to play and call out numbers, then realize he doesn't understand, then have to call out notes! Its really frustrating knowing that I have to figure out the bass licks and the piano licks and I only play one instrument. :-\
A little bit, yes. A singer only has so far they can go in either direction (high or low). An instrument doesn't have that limitation.
It sounds to me like you have an opportunity to increase your skill set as a musician OR you could continue to be upset by your current situation. *shrugs*
Last night, I had to explain to the praise team that Donnie McClurkin's 'Victory Chant' has harmony through most of the song.
The lead singer's reaction ------> ?/? :-\ :o
I had to explain to her that it, in NO way, effected her.
The lead singer's reaction ------? ?/? :-\ :o
It was quite comical. But, we got through it.
You can get through this, too. ;) 8)
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A little bit, yes. A singer only has so far they can go in either direction (high or low). An instrument doesn't have that limitation.
It sounds to me like you have an opportunity to increase your skill set as a musician OR you could continue to be upset by your current situation. *shrugs*
Last night, I had to explain to the praise team that Donnie McClurkin's 'Victory Chant' has harmony through most of the song.
The lead singer's reaction ------> ?/? :-\ :o
I had to explain to her that it, in NO way, effected her.
The lead singer's reaction ------? ?/? :-\ :o
It was quite comical. But, we got through it.
You can get through this, too. ;) 8)
I guess I'll run on to see what the end gon' be. :D
Our church went out last Sunday and us musicians tore it up. They had an organ player(only) that played with us. Then we started our shouting music and he had that same look SJon ----- ?/? :-\ :o
It was crazy! Shouting is really the reason I play keyz 'cause thats when I can be creative. Its our band's strong point.
The only thing that messes with me is the actual songs. Really, its not the musicians. We always get our part. Its just the Unity with the choir that needs to be worked on.
Let me ask this, Should the musicians be responsible for choosing the songs the choirs need to sing?, or should the musicians just follow the direction of the director and let he/she choose?
Personally, I believe the musicians are there to deliver good sounds along with the lead singer who is relaying the message of the song.
I just wanted ev'rybody's opinion...
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Let me ask this, Should the musicians be responsible for choosing the songs the choirs need to sing?, or should the musicians just follow the direction of the director and let he/she choose?
Personally, I believe the musicians are there to deliver good sounds along with the lead singer who is relaying the message of the song.
I just wanted ev'rybody's opinion...
Its the MOM's job to designate someone to choose the songs, whether it be the Choir Director or the musicians.
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Very true. But, most of the time I am overridden by the choir director. Just odd...
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Very true. But, most of the time I am overridden by the choir director. Just odd...
Not odd; you're the MUSICIAN; you are the FOLLOWER of the choir director or MOM.
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I guess I'll run on to see what the end gon' be. :D
Our church went out last Sunday and us musicians tore it up. They had an organ player(only) that played with us. Then we started our shouting music and he had that same look SJon ----- ?/? :-\ :o
It was crazy! Shouting is really the reason I play keyz 'cause thats when I can be creative. Its our band's strong point.
The only thing that messes with me is the actual songs. Really, its not the musicians. We always get our part. Its just the Unity with the choir that needs to be worked on.
Let me ask this, Should the musicians be responsible for choosing the songs the choirs need to sing?, or should the musicians just follow the direction of the director and let he/she choose?
Personally, I believe the musicians are there to deliver good sounds along with the lead singer who is relaying the message of the song.
I just wanted ev'rybody's opinion...
I'm really bothered by that statement. :(
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I'm really bothered by that statement. :(
What I meant was that because my church shouts so much, I like playing piano/keyboard because its a time where I can be creative with my music.Not odd; you're the MUSICIAN; you are the FOLLOWER of the choir director or MOM.
Very true. But who has a higher position? Choir Director or MOM? Being the MOM myself, I feel like I am overridden by the choir director. I was told(by the pastor) to oversee the whole music department, I just assumed that meant the choirs as well. I talk to the choir director about songs that I want the choir to attempt, and she nods/responds ok. But, at rehearsal, nothing is done about my suggestions. :-\
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Very true. But who has a higher position? Choir Director or MOM? Being the MOM myself, I feel like I am overridden by the choir director. I was told(by the pastor) to oversee the whole music department, I just assumed that meant the choirs as well. I talk to the choir director about songs that I want the choir to attempt, and she nods/responds ok. But, at rehearsal, nothing is done about my suggestions. :-\
Completely different scenario, then. As the MOM, you can make suggestions. At the same time, you shouldn't have to 'micro-manage' the choir; that's why you have a choir director.
I'd suggest having a meeting with the pastor and the choir director and air out any grievances so that everyone can get on the same page.
If it continues after that, then it's time to look for a new choir director or take over the responsibilities yourself.
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Completely different scenario, then. As the MOM, you can make suggestions. At the same time, you shouldn't have to 'micro-manage' the choir; that's why you have a choir director.
I'd suggest having a meeting with the pastor and the choir director and air out any grievances so that everyone can get on the same page.
If it continues after that, then it's time to look for a new choir director or take over the responsibilities yourself.
That is a very good idea. I'll probably talk to the pastor this coming sunday. Thank SJon
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That is a very good idea. I'll probably talk to the pastor this coming sunday. Thank SJon
Anytime.
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I have not been to this site in quite a while. I am reading the replies to this post and it seems that most of these choir's stucture is not in place. There was one instance where the choir had not practiced in 6 months. This type of practice does not allow your choir to flourish in the spirit without struggle. There is obvious no new material learned unless it is spontaneously presented, leaving your choir being repetitive in nature and predictable with the same old song, now that is okay, we can stay and sing this all day and every day but this is getting old, I want to move on to another level, how about you. There is still drama going on with issues that does not pertain to the choir scene which leads to even more downfalls. Arguments that have no place but ouside is dragged inside practices disrupting all the agenda at hand. I tell my people to leave your household drama at the door of the outside of the church before you enter because when you get in, its all God's business. Music Ministers and/or Choir Director's MUST be on the same accord with the Musicians. You have no idea what it takes to play hundereds of songs in a span of a couple of years and then to all of a sudden come out of the blue and expect the musician to play something that was not played or rehearsed since the beginnning of time, especially if everyone is playing without sheet music slpattered in their face. That is one reason I said that the two entities must get on the same wave. The Director doesn't have a clue unless he or she is a Musician/Director in knowing that these old songs most of the times must be revisited before playing. Just because you are playing professional doesn't mean that you are perfect,That is one of the reaseons why most of the time you are at a concert requesting a certain song that is not being played and the srtist "refuses" to play the song, why, because they did not practice it to be worked in their lineup for the tour, oh it happens sometimes but not all the time. As I scan on more post, I see that we Music Ministers and Directors need to step up the process. There is simply no excuse to be practicing your choir every two or three months or longer and expect results in a good way. I promise you it will be bad period. Practice at least once a week. With me, you have to understand that each and every Sunday, folks from all the land come with expectation to get fed in the soul, now you tell me how it this attainable on the music side of worship with a neglected situation. We can all do better than this because we are better than this. Go back to the drawing board and start all over again with a hunger.
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I have not been to this site in quite a while. I am reading the replies to this post and it seems that most of these choir's stucture is not in place. There was one instance where the choir had not practiced in 6 months. This type of practice does not allow your choir to flourish in the spirit without struggle. There is obvious no new material learned unless it is spontaneously presented, leaving your choir being repetitive in nature and predictable with the same old song, now that is okay, we can stay and sing this all day and every day but this is getting old, I want to move on to another level, how about you. There is still drama going on with issues that does not pertain to the choir scene which leads to even more downfalls. Arguments that have no place but ouside is dragged inside practices disrupting all the agenda at hand. I tell my people to leave your household drama at the door of the outside of the church before you enter because when you get in, its all God's business. Music Ministers and/or Choir Director's MUST be on the same accord with the Musicians. You have no idea what it takes to play hundereds of songs in a span of a couple of years and then to all of a sudden come out of the blue and expect the musician to play something that was not played or rehearsed since the beginnning of time, especially if everyone is playing without sheet music slpattered in their face. That is one reason I said that the two entities must get on the same wave. The Director doesn't have a clue unless he or she is a Musician/Director in knowing that these old songs most of the times must be revisited before playing. Just because you are playing professional doesn't mean that you are perfect,That is one of the reaseons why most of the time you are at a concert requesting a certain song that is not being played and the srtist "refuses" to play the song, why, because they did not practice it to be worked in their lineup for the tour, oh it happens sometimes but not all the time. As I scan on more post, I see that we Music Ministers and Directors need to step up the process. There is simply no excuse to be practicing your choir every two or three months or longer and expect results in a good way. I promise you it will be bad period. Practice at least once a week. With me, you have to understand that each and every Sunday, folks from all the land come with expectation to get fed in the soul, now you tell me how it this attainable on the music side of worship with a neglected situation. We can all do better than this because we are better than this. Go back to the drawing board and start all over again with a hunger.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/sjonathan02/Paragraphs.jpg?t=1237917347)
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([url]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/sjonathan02/Paragraphs.jpg?t=1237917347[/url])
:D :D :D I was thinking the same thing. Very good points though. (by the way)
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I have not been to this site in quite a while. I am reading the replies to this post and it seems that most of these choir's stucture is not in place.
There was one instance where the choir had not practiced in 6 months. This type of practice does not allow your choir to flourish in the spirit without struggle. There is obvious no new material learned unless it is spontaneously presented, leaving your choir being repetitive in nature and predictable with the same old song, now that is okay, we can stay and sing this all day and every day but this is getting old, I want to move on to another level, how about you.
There is still drama going on with issues that does not pertain to the choir scene which leads to even more downfalls. Arguments that have no place but ouside is dragged inside practices disrupting all the agenda at hand. I tell my people to leave your household drama at the door of the outside of the church before you enter because when you get in, its all God's business.
Music Ministers and/or Choir Director's MUST be on the same accord with the Musicians. You have no idea what it takes to play hundereds of songs in a span of a couple of years and then to all of a sudden come out of the blue and expect the musician to play something that was not played or rehearsed since the beginnning of time, especially if everyone is playing without sheet music slpattered in their face.
That is one reason I said that the two entities must get on the same wave. The Director doesn't have a clue unless he or she is a Musician/Director in knowing that these old songs most of the times must be revisited before playing.
Just because you are playing professional doesn't mean that you are perfect,That is one of the reaseons why most of the time you are at a concert requesting a certain song that is not being played and the srtist "refuses" to play the song, why, because they did not practice it to be worked in their lineup for the tour, oh it happens sometimes but not all the time.
As I scan on more post, I see that we Music Ministers and Directors need to step up the process. There is simply no excuse to be practicing your choir every two or three months or longer and expect results in a good way. I promise you it will be bad period. Practice at least once a week. With me, you have to understand that each and every Sunday, folks from all the land come with expectation to get fed in the soul, now you tell me how it this attainable on the music side of worship with a neglected situation.
We can all do better than this because we are better than this. Go back to the drawing board and start all over again with a hunger.
I fixed it SJ!!! ;D Now I can read it! Great points bro!
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praise the lord. First off You really need to find time to rehearse with you choir,your'e band and the choir director. You and the director should be on the same page a-team who works together to set the atmoshpere for the The Word to be delivered. This cause for the Lord to do his work through the Preacher.You two have to be on One Accord.
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Meh the really really bad thing is when you are just starting out as a church pianist coming from a classical background where you play what is on the page. And only what is on the page.
And you have like a 65 year old organist and a 42(looked 26) worship leader. I mean the WL would during rehearsal have us transpose to one key and I would learn the song in the key he said during rehearsal. But then on Sunday morning he decides that the song is no longer in a good key. YAY!!!...Y.Y. And they weren't small key changes eiter it was like 4 whole steps down(or to be mean and spiteful i would bring it 5 steps up which is technically the same thing) but anyway, WL and MOM/Choir directors need to do what was done in rehearsal or at least notify the musicians a proper amount of time before the service.
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Meh the really really bad thing is when you are just starting out as a church pianist coming from a classical background where you play what is on the page. And only what is on the page.
And you have like a 65 year old organist and a 42(looked 26) worship leader. I mean the WL would during rehearsal have us transpose to one key and I would learn the song in the key he said during rehearsal. But then on Sunday morning he decides that the song is no longer in a good key. YAY!!!...Y.Y. And they weren't small key changes eiter it was like 4 whole steps down(or to be mean and spiteful i would bring it 5 steps up which is technically the same thing) but anyway, WL and MOM/Choir directors need to do what was done in rehearsal or at least notify the musicians a proper amount of time before the service.
I feel your pain, bruh Right here.
"Puts hand over Heart"
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Yeah when your like the youngest musician in the church it kinda makes things akward when they want to do songs from the 1920's that i've never heard before on the fly. So the organist would just give me the key and then i was on my own xD.
That first time with Jesus on the Mainline was very intresting.
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That definately brings back some memories :'(
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If the MOM is bringing songs that have not been rehearsedor performed in months then what do the new choir members do? Do they just mouth the song or what.
If you perform every week, then rehearsal is a must every week. Rehearsal should consist of songs for the following sunday service.
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If the MOM is bringing songs that have not been rehearsedor performed in months then what do the new choir members do? Do they just mouth the song or what.
If you perform every week, then rehearsal is a must every week. Rehearsal should consist of songs for the following sunday service.
Very true.
Lately, I've been laying down the law on the choir directors and the bass player.
I got on the choir director's case a couple of Sundays ago when she pulled a song from the woodworks and it sounded horrible. It had been so long since I had heard or thought about the song and I didn't know what to do, so I didn't play. The bass player tried to play it but his notes were off and there were lots of gaps in the music.
The choir director called me to the back afterwards and told me that God had given me a gift and was telling me to use my ear and such things as that. She said that sometimes the songs that we practiced don't fit the mood of the service and thats why she switched up the songs at the last minute second. She proceeded on to say that I should be professional and try.
My response was that it is not professional to play things you haven't practiced or know. Also, I stated that if I was going to be professional, then she would have to be porfessional as well and stick to the "gameplan".
She then said that she is led by the spirit to have the choir to sing certain songs, whether it has been practiced or not. Singing the wrong songs at the wrong time, even with the right music can block the spirit. Then feeling as if she had won this "debate" she turned and started to walk off.
I retaliated saying that singing the right song at the right time with the terribly wrong music can also block the spirit. People might be paying attention to how wrong the music is and not pay attention to the choir.
She has not spoken to me since... : :-\
My bass player still is not practicing like he should. He has been playing for more than 20 years and I've been playing for about 4 years and I try to talk "theory" with him and hes like, ?/? ?/? ?/? and in my head I'm like, ::) :-\ ::) :-\
He does not know the most common scales(minor(s) , blues, e.t.c.) and I use a lot of these in my playing. He is reliable though, he comes to almost every rehearsal and service(his dad is the pastor), but that doesn't do any good if he isn't learning, practicing the right way. I don't think he listens to the CD's I burn him, which costs me money(iTunes, Blank Discs, e.t.c.). I always have to give him his bass line and this takes a lot of time because he doesn't listen to the CD's, and he doesn't write what I tell him down. So I tried e-mailing his bass line to him, which failed because he doesn't listen to the songs.
So now I'm thinking about just giving him the cold shoulder and let him realize that he needs to practice on his own. I am the MOM but its not like I can fire him, 'cause I don't have that authority, the pastor does. And its not like he's going to get fired 'cause he's the pastor's son.
I don't know what I should do about all this. I mean, I can leave, but thats my home church. All my fam goes there and I can't leave all that behind.
So here is my question, fam, what should I do about all this mess?
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How to get people to practice, listen to CD's, plan ahead of time???
?/?
Unfortunately, some don't feel the Holy Spirit in the preparation...
:P
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I don't know what I should do about all this. I mean, I can leave, but thats my home church. All my fam goes there and I can't leave all that behind.
So here is my question, fam, what should I do about all this mess?
You have boxed yourself into a corner. Either you can leave or you can't. It's that simple.
Yes, it is.
God told Abram to leave his kinsmen and go. If he can do it, why can't you? :-\
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yeah man.... you in a bad situation.
Its like this, it took our pastor coming to the music department and saying that:
1. if a song is not rehearsed well in practice..... do not attempt to play it in a service
2. Everybody is not a solo vocalist. Please don't give folks who do not have the gift of singing an opportunity to embarass themselves in front of the entire congregation
Basically that took care of MOST of the issues with respect to unprepared songs and crazy singing. Now as minister of music, you might have to pull rank and start picking the songs for sunday service. Yes its true that may not sit will with the director, but if stuff is sounding bad... you gotta do what you have to do.
If your pastor cannot back you in these situations... then basically they don't respect the authority of the position that they have given you. in that case, your only option is to "let somebody else do it".
folks get hot with me sometimes ( mostly they are not even affiliated with the choir), and go to the pastor and say that the choir should do "such and such".
He typically tells them... "You need to discuss that with the leader of the music department", and usually that shuts everything down unless they have a legitimate complaint ( and sometimes they do).
But having the pastor voice his concern on the "quality" of the music went a long way with everyone within the music department. Now our mantra is , if it isn't done right.... we just don't do it.
Jlewis
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yeah man.... you in a bad situation.
Its like this, it took our pastor coming to the music department and saying that:
1. if a song is not rehearsed well in practice..... do not attempt to play it in a service
2. Everybody is not a solo vocalist. Please don't give folks who do not have the gift of singing an opportunity to embarass themselves in front of the entire congregation
Basically that took care of MOST of the issues with respect to unprepared songs and crazy singing. Now as minister of music, you might have to pull rank and start picking the songs for sunday service. Yes its true that may not sit will with the director, but if stuff is sounding bad... you gotta do what you have to do.
If your pastor cannot back you in these situations... then basically they don't respect the authority of the position that they have given you. in that case, your only option is to "let somebody else do it".
folks get hot with me sometimes ( mostly they are not even affiliated with the choir), and go to the pastor and say that the choir should do "such and such".
He typically tells them... "You need to discuss that with the leader of the music department", and usually that shuts everything down unless they have a legitimate complaint ( and sometimes they do).
But having the pastor voice his concern on the "quality" of the music went a long way with everyone within the music department. Now our mantra is , if it isn't done right.... we just don't do it.
Jlewis
Good stuff! We're going through something like this right now. IRT the bold part: they think I'm being anal when I say stuff like that.
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Good stuff! We're going through something like this right now. IRT the bold part: they think I'm being anal when I say stuff like that.
It depends on your definition of 'done right'.
I used to be anal. At first, I thought I wasn't; but, after awhile, I had to learn that everyone isn't going to see/hear it the way I do; but that doesn't mean that God won't get the glory or His people be edified.
Perfect example.
This past Sunday was off the chain, my wife even said so (and she's my HARSHEST critic...another post, another thread). But, after Thursday's rehearsal, I thought I may have worked the team too hard trying to make the sure the notes were correct and such. I wasn't sure.
So, excellence should always be the goal; but, not at the expense of rehearsals becoming drudgery.
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It depends on your definition of 'done right'.
I used to be anal. At first, I thought I wasn't; but, after awhile, I had to learn that everyone isn't going to see/hear it the way I do; but that doesn't mean that God won't get the glory or His people be edified.
Perfect example.
This past Sunday was off the chain, my wife even said so (and she's my HARSHEST critic...another post, another thread). But, after Thursday's rehearsal, I thought I may have worked the team too hard trying to make the sure the notes were correct and such. I wasn't sure.
So, excellence should always be the goal; but, not at the expense of rehearsals becoming drudgery.
Dude, they think singing on key is a luxtury. Shoot, one of the leaders said it last week! It's not that they can't do it, it's that they're to taught to do it.
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Dude, they think singing on key is a luxury. Shoot, one of the leaders said it last week! It's not that they can't do it, it's that they're to taught to do it.
And with that, I officially put down my pen. :o :D
That's just unacceptable, seriously. And, tell them I said so. Singing on key is the LEAST they can do for God.
Tell them to stop giving a 'Cain' praise. ::) *smh*
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Tell them to stop giving a 'Cain' praise. ::) *smh*
:o *screams at the top of her lungs in utter excitement!!*
Do you realize that's been my thought for the last month or so?! OMGosh! At our next meeting I was thinking about bring up Cain and Abel for this reason! Yo!!! ^_^
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:o *screams at the top of her lungs in utter excitement!!*
Do you realize that's been my thought for the last month or so?! OMGosh! At our next meeting I was thinking about bring up Cain and Abel for this reason! Yo!!! ^_^
I'mma tell you right now, folks are gonna look at you like you have two heads and try to tell you that you're taking that Biblical account out of context. :-\
Look at them like this ----> ::) and keep going. ;) 8)
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I have a great MOM,he gives us cd's,charts,and a list on mon for thur practice.very respectful/organized/HUMBLE man/servant of GOD.Need I say more? think a LOT more humility and love would go a LONNNNGGG way in praise and worship.It's all for LORD(isn't it?)
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I have a great MOM,he gives us cd's,charts,and a list on mon for thur practice.very respectful/organized/HUMBLE man/servant of GOD.Need I say more? think a LOT more humility and love would go a LONNNNGGG way in praise and worship.It's all for LORD(isn't it?)
{Singing}
A---men!
A---men!
A---men, A-men! A-men!
:D
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:D Sometimes my choir director gives me that old, wore - out excuse
"Its not how you sing it. Just as long as you're doin' it for the Lord"
And I say, "Really, what about giving God your BEST, huh?"
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:D Sometimes my choir director gives me that old, wore - out excuse
"Its not how you sing it. Just as long as you're doin' it for the Lord"
And I say, "Really, what about giving God your BEST, huh?"
It's really a fine line when one uses that line and, in reality, should be married with your response. ;) 8)
My response is something along the lines of being fit for the Master's use. Excellence in execution goes along with that, IMO.
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:D Sometimes my choir director gives me that old, wore - out excuse
"Its not how you sing it. Just as long as you're doin' it for the Lord"
And I say, "Really, what about giving God your BEST, huh?"
My response is something along the lines of being fit for the Master's use. Excellence in execution goes along with that, IMO.
Psalm 33 (New International Version)
Psalm 33
1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
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Psalm 33 (New International Version)
Psalm 33
1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
Bruh, you ain't gotta tell me.
That 'new song' portion can be a bear to deal with, as well. ::) :-\