WHERE'S MY KEY!

[michaeln]

Hello Again,

Referencing the Circle of 4ths/5ths if I start at C and go clockwise the next G up from middle C is the key of G????  Or is it at any position on the Keyboard/Piano that I find C the next G "going up" is a key of G.

Example 2

If I count four notes back from middle C does that start the key of F?  And for 4 notes back from that F I start the key of Bb?

[playhear]

See the topic in the Practice Room about the Circle of Fifths:
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/ftopict-13608.html
which includes a link to a good explanation:
http://songweaver.com/music/co5.html
Let me know if that doesn't answer your question.

[T-Block]

michaeln wrote:
http://Hello Again, Referencing the Circle of 4ths/5ths if I start at C and go clockwise the next G up from middle C is the key of G???? Or is it at any position on the Keyboard/Piano that I find C the next G "going up" is a key of G. Example 2 If I count four notes back from middle C does that start the key of F? And for 4 notes back from that F I start the key of Bb?

You start at C, then travel clockwise in 5ths and counterclockwise in 4ths.  It is mainly used for telling you the key signature, number of #'s or b's, in a particular key.  That is how you do it on the circle.  On the keyboard, it is different.  When you find 4ths and 5ths on the keyboard, you move up, which is to the right.  So, when you start at C, a 5th up is G, then a 5th up from that is D, then a 5th up from that is A, etc.  Likewise, when you start C, a 4th up is F, then a 4th up from that is Bb, then a 4th up from that is Eb, etc.

When you play another note that doesn't mean you in that key.  You establish your key by what order you play your chords in.  Does that answer your question?  If you need more explanantion just ask.

[michaeln]

This is what i understand if i play (middle c) c then go up 4

key "c"
whole "D"
whole "E"
half "F"
whole "G" also a 4th- which would also start my next key.

now from "G" using the same method show above, i would get to "D" my next key.
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Where i get lost at is you mentioned that i would keep going to the right (I'm using a 76 key keyboard) want i run out of IVORY before i get to Eb or some other over half way around the circle. I also was dumbfounded when you said the key is shown i the way i play my chords?????????

[T-Block]

michaeln wrote:

Where i get lost at is you mentioned that i would keep going to the right (I'm using a 76 key keyboard) want i run out of IVORY before i get to Eb or some other over half way around the circle. I also was dumbfounded when you said the key is shown i the way i play my chords???????

Going backwards on the circle and on the keyboard is two different things.  If you start on middle C on the keyboard and go back (left) 4, you would end up on G, but G is not a 4th of C.  That is why you have to keep going forward to find your intervals cuz going backwards would give you backwards intervals. Watch:

C, D, E, F (4th), G (5th) RIGHT!!!
C, B, A, G (4th), F (5th) WRONG!!!
C, B, A, G (5th), F (4th) RIGHT!!!

You see how that works?  It gets confusing trying to do stuff backwards.

It doesn't matter if you run out of keyboard space cuz you can just drop down an octave from where you at and keep going, or you can just start back at the bottom.  A keyboard is made of the same 12 keys (7 white, 5 black) repeated over and over again.  So, no matter where you play a C, G will always be the 5th away, and D will be a 5th away from that, etc.  Movement on the keyboard is:

Going up = move to the right
Going down = move to the left

Now, when i said that your key is found by the way you play your chords, i meant your key is found by the order in which you play your chords .  Check this out:

1. C / C-E-G (C major)
2. F / F-A-C (F major)
3. G / G-B-D (G major)

Look at these 3 chords. All 3 chords can be found in the key of C:
C / C-E-G (C major) = 1 chord
F / F-A-C (F major) = 4 chord
G / G-B-D (G major) = 5 chord

Chords 1 and 2 are both found in the key of F.  
C / C-E-G (C major) = 5 chord
F / F-A-C (F major) = 1 chord

Chords 1 and 3 are both found in the key of G.  
C / C-E-G (C major) = 4 chord
G / G-B-D (G major) = 1 chord

So, just because you play a C major chord, that doesn't automatically put you in the key of C.  Same goes for any other chord.  The way you tell what key you in, is the order in which you play them.  In other words, what chord(s) come before or after the current chord tells you what key you in.  Is this clearer for you now?

[michaeln]

 :lol:  8O  :idea: Ok let me see if I'm cooking with fire,  if I play (I'm new to progressions also so be patient please).

5 2 1
and
chords i use are A(5),E(2), and B(1) I'm playing in the key of B?
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This next question will turn more lights on.  We had a guest speaker last week for mens day, he also plays piano.  He told me that my Pastors key was  Bb(Please God don't let me forget)  :?: So as long as I'm playing inbetween to Bb's I'm playing in the Bb flat key.  And need to move the octave up or down to match the voice of the singer/Pastor?

[BroAllan]

Hi Michaeln!  To answer your question..  if A(5), E(2), then D (which is one whole-step down from E) is 1...  Keep on jammin for Jesus...  BroAllan

[T-Block]

michaeln wrote:

5 2 1
and
chords i use are A(5),E(2), and B(1) I'm playing in the key of B?

BroAllan is right what he said.  If you say A is 5, then automatically you know your key is D.  You don't have to know anything else cuz A is always the 5th of D.  

If you were in the key of B, A wouldn't exist.  It would be A#, which is 7.  E would be 4, and B would be 1.  2 in B is C# and 5 is F#.

This next question will turn more lights on. We had a guest speaker last week for mens day, he also plays piano. He told me that my Pastors key was Bb(Please God don't let me forget)  So as long as I'm playing inbetween to Bb's I'm playing in the Bb flat key. And need to move the octave up or down to match the voice of the singer/Pastor?

This question is kinda confusing to me.

[michaeln]

Sorry for the confusion I meant to say D.  What also happen is when I count I only count the white keys, when I should be counting all the keys in the that particular key (ex.  the 3,6,2,5,1 of Db would be-------

F,Bb,Eb,Ab,Db,  "NOT" F,B,E,A,D

. My second question I was trying to figure out what I need to do to stay with in a KEY while play. "my Pastors key was Bb(Please God don't let me forget) So as long as I'm playing inbetween two Bb's "  this would mean that I'm still in the key of Bb.

[T-Block]

michaeln wrote:

My second question I was trying to figure out what I need to do to stay with in a KEY while play. "my Pastors key was Bb(Please God don't let me forget) So as long as I'm playing inbetween two Bb's " this would mean that I'm still in the key of Bb.

Be careful when you say "playing in between two Bb's".  You have to be playing bass notes and chords that are associated with the Bb scale.  You don't have to play in between two particular Bb's, you can play them anywhere on the keyboard.

[BroAllan]

I just wanted to share that although the key of "Bb" was comfortable for
your pastor to sing in for that particular song, other songs may require you
to play it in a different key... A lot of it depends on the range of the song...
Example:  "Shout to the Lord" is one of those songs that most people cannot
sing comfortably in more than 1 or 2 keys... (kinda like the "National Anthem")... whereas, the song, "Hallelujah" can probably be sung in at least
several different keys by most people, because it has a small range of notes...  In closing, as you learn to play in "Bb" and all the related chords in
that key, continue to increase you knowledge and skill in all the 12 keys and
you'll be amazed how a lot of what is being taught and shared here on the site, will begin fall into place as the Holy Spirit teaches and guides you...
                                                 God bless you... BroAllan

[BBoy]

To play in a key is not to play between two octave notes in that key. So to say that as long as you stay between two Bb's you are in the key of Bb is wrong.

This is the key of Bb major: (anywhere on the keyboard)

Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb

Now to stay in the key of Bb MOST of your chords will be combinations of those notes.

I say MOST because to add color and texture to music, gospel uses other notes, but only for brief periods of time. These notes are called incidentals. They add musical interest to the song, like pepper, onions, seasoned salt and hot sauce adds interest to food.  :wink:  You wouldn't want to eat an onion or pepper by itself, (and no one would want to be around you if you did) :wink:  but used in the right way it really adds interest to food.

Used in the right way, notes outside the key will give a lot of interest to your playing.

Also, there are other Bb scales. The scale above is called the Bb major scale. There is the Bb blues scale, which is different than the Bb major scale. There is also the Bb minor scale, just for starters.

I would suggest finding a good piano teacher in your area and getting a few lessons, if you haven't already.

Hope this helps.

Be Blessed  

[michaeln]

Example: "Shout to the Lord" is one of those songs that most people cannot
sing comfortably in more than 1 or 2 keys... (kinda like the "National Anthem")...

We just had this discussion in before church today.  And i thank you all for the information that's being shared here and please if there's more "share it all"  I'm learning everyday onething that I've learned that playing and play well will be hard,  but believing that this is my Ministry that's a burden I'm willing to bare.  Stay blessed and stay prayerful......