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(Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?

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Offline SisterT

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2006, 12:27:40 PM »
I think the decision ultimately is the Pastor's or the governing board of the church.  They are mainly responsible for placing everyone in their respective positions in the church.  I think wisdom is shown when the pastor seeks input from the music department, but ultimately, he has to be prayerful and make the decision according to the leading of the Holy Ghost.

Amen!

Unfortunately, people do not understand God's design for the church. Why would the Pastor consult a bunch of folk when he has been appointed head. When the "bunch of other folk" think they should have a say so in the decision making process, you have just identified the ones who have submission problems to authority.

Offline vtguy84

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2006, 03:57:56 PM »
Passuh need to consult with someone who knows music and music ministry. Hopefully he has a friend or two who can provide him with assistance.
There are sooo many churches that have choirs but no real music ministry...and thats because of the way MOM's work now. I think it's crazy for 1 MOM to be at 3 or 4 churches in as many years.
I think they should call it Music Director...cuz most MOM's aren't ministers at all.

Most Senior Pastors are former M.O.M.s's
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Offline Grammi

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2006, 04:26:42 PM »
really?

Mine sho nuff ain't, lol
Actually, none of mine have been musically inclined AT ALL... and most of the churches I've had interviews, the pastor couldnt hold a tune in a bucket.

If passuh knows music what to look for in a music ministry go for it...but a key ingredient in leadership is utilizing the appropriate resources.

Offline SisterT

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2006, 04:31:32 PM »
Most Senior Pastors are former M.O.M.s's

I disagree with this statement too-----not MOST. My husband can't spell music.. My church has 5 pastors, all don't know a thing about music. I think a lot of preachers can sing, but they aren't former MOM's. They are former choir members.

Offline vtguy84

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2006, 04:39:41 PM »
I disagree with this statement too-----not MOST. My husband can't spell music.. My church has 5 pastors, all don't know a thing about music. I think a lot of preachers can sing, but they aren't former MOM's. They are former choir members.

I retract my statement.  Most in my area are. :D
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Offline MrSparrow

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2006, 06:50:32 AM »
There have been times that I've been hired by a Pastor on the spot. Sometimes it worked well, other times it didn't work so well.  The church I'm presently the MoM at now where I was hired by the Pastor AFTER an interview with the guy who would be my already in place assistant MoM (he was the former MoM), the Senior Pastor and a deacon.

It would be wise to involve people in the process to make them feel like they are more than just a number on the church roll. It makes them feel like they have a little say in the ministry that God has given them. It's the Pastor's decision ultimately but why would a Pastor have issues with involving people who are musically inclined in the decision process? True leaders (in my opinion) aren't threatened or challenged by involving others or admitting that this (music) is not a area of expertise for him/her. Only insecure, power hungry, I'M THE SENIOR PASTOR pastors do not want to share the decision making process with others.

Wise Pastors see that you can accomplish much more when their vision becomes the people's vision. nothing makes a person feel more important than hearing "What do you think?" from someone who they look up to.

I'm not saying take the candidates to the choir rehearsal and let them speak to the choir, teach them a song and then have the choir vote at the end of the rehearsal... but I AM saying they should at least have a representative on the interview committee.

MrSparrow

Offline ferrente

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2007, 02:18:48 PM »
I disagree with this statement too-----not MOST. My husband can't spell music.. My church has 5 pastors, all don't know a thing about music. I think a lot of preachers can sing, but they aren't former MOM's. They are former choir members.


I agree!
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Offline Angel4ever

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 12:20:52 AM »
 I think the pastor should have the final decision on hiring a MOM, but should also be humble and wise enough to take advice from others. At my church, my pastor DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MUSIC sometimes he don't see the choir as a ministry.About four years, he hired people to teach the young people how to play insturments (keyboard,drums,bass ect...). The church spent about $3600 in 3 months on lessons (once a week) for four people. And another $5 or 6 thousand on instruments you can find in studios. My dad who is the assistant pastor and one of the Evanglist (BOTH KNOW MUSIC) advise the pastor that the teachers are taking adavantage of the church. The teachers took the money and the students only learned one song in three months.  Since then those instruments have nevered been play again. They still look brand new. With the money that was spent, the pastor could have hired a MOM to help develop the music department.

Offline ferrente

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2007, 10:36:26 PM »
Welcome To LGM,  Angel4ever
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Offline jukey23

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2007, 03:19:33 PM »
I am COGIC, and I have no clue what the 'politics' and rules are concerning these types of things.  But being part of a music ministry where the m.o.m. was always an issue (mostly negative), I feel strongly about everyone voicing their opinions regarding huge decisions like this.  It would probably result in a lot of heated attitudes and funny looks from the corners of eyes, so that is probably why the Pastor usually makes these types of decisions. 
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Offline jlewis

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2007, 04:29:34 PM »
There have been times that I've been hired by a Pastor on the spot. Sometimes it worked well, other times it didn't work so well.  The church I'm presently the MoM at now where I was hired by the Pastor AFTER an interview with the guy who would be my already in place assistant MoM (he was the former MoM), the Senior Pastor and a deacon.

It would be wise to involve people in the process to make them feel like they are more than just a number on the church roll. It makes them feel like they have a little say in the ministry that God has given them. It's the Pastor's decision ultimately but why would a Pastor have issues with involving people who are musically inclined in the decision process? True leaders (in my opinion) aren't threatened or challenged by involving others or admitting that this (music) is not a area of expertise for him/her. Only insecure, power hungry, I'M THE SENIOR PASTOR pastors do not want to share the decision making process with others.

Wise Pastors see that you can accomplish much more when their vision becomes the people's vision. nothing makes a person feel more important than hearing "What do you think?" from someone who they look up to.

I'm not saying take the candidates to the choir rehearsal and let them speak to the choir, teach them a song and then have the choir vote at the end of the rehearsal... but I AM saying they should at least have a representative on the interview committee.

MrSparrow



This is wise advice.  While it is ultimately the pastors decision, the WISE thing to do would be to consult with the people who  have to work daily with this person. People who are insecure feel that they must force a viewpoint upon a person.  You wouldn't run a family that way.  Telling your wife ( who is supposed to be your helpmate) every single decision   that the family must   make.  A Wise husband would consult with his spouse on the things that she is better at, and a wise wife would consult with her husband on the things he is more capabe of handling. No one should ever make a decision in a vacuum.

I think a leader must balance consulting with advisers with "not being afraid to make the hard choices".   Sometimes the best decision is not always the most popular ones, but if everyone is looking out for the best interest of the "body" and not clouding their judgement with ulterior motives,  then I think God will honor those choices.

I have a bigger problem with Leadership  not being able to say "I made a mistake".   Sometimes  Pastor's  make bad choices ( maybe they didn't seek the lord in prayer, or maybe they were influenced by personal desires...  but we KNOW that pastor's make mistakes sometimes.  I would rather the pastor just "man up" and say I was wrong, rather than trying to get all "spiritual" and put a good spin on a bad decision.  You actually get more respect from subordinates if you treat them like they got common sense ( because some actually do..... although unfortunately some don't);

Mr Sparrow, is that you in the picture.   I got a friend Cfus whou might have went to school with you...


Jlewis

Offline ferrente

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2007, 02:33:35 PM »
This is wise advice.  While it is ultimately the pastors decision, the WISE thing to do would be to consult with the people who  have to work daily with this person. People who are insecure feel that they must force a viewpoint upon a person.  You wouldn't run a family that way.  Telling your wife ( who is supposed to be your helpmate) every single decision   that the family must   make.  A Wise husband would consult with his spouse on the things that she is better at, and a wise wife would consult with her husband on the things he is more capabe of handling. No one should ever make a decision in a vacuum.

I think a leader must balance consulting with advisers with "not being afraid to make the hard choices".   Sometimes the best decision is not always the most popular ones, but if everyone is looking out for the best interest of the "body" and not clouding their judgement with ulterior motives,  then I think God will honor those choices.

I have a bigger problem with Leadership  not being able to say "I made a mistake".   Sometimes  Pastor's  make bad choices ( maybe they didn't seek the lord in prayer, or maybe they were influenced by personal desires...  but we KNOW that pastor's make mistakes sometimes.  I would rather the pastor just "man up" and say I was wrong, rather than trying to get all "spiritual" and put a good spin on a bad decision.  You actually get more respect from subordinates if you treat them like they got common sense ( because some actually do..... although unfortunately some don't);

Mr Sparrow, is that you in the picture.   I got a friend Cfus whou might have went to school with you...



Jlewis


Nice!
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Offline ferrente

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2008, 11:32:53 PM »
This question has a lot of ways to be answered. First of all in Jamaica the minister of music is not normally hired in most churches..(I am taking hiring to mean that someone is brought in who is paid to train the choir) I think the criteria for hiring a M.O.M should be as follows:-

The person should preferrable be a member of the church
Someone the choir members will respect
Someone whose christian life is unquestionable
Someone who knows music inside out

I believe that the M.O.M should be hired by the Music Department and the Choir as they are the ones who will be working with the individuals or individual...there are some churches who do not have many M.O.M to select from so if only one person is suitable the need for prayer is almost rhetorical..however if there are many suitable candidates for this position then a selection of candidates should be made by the music, which intewrviews these individuals and a choice made...I think this selection is not the duty of the Pastor as the members of the Music Department should also be spiritual enough to let God guide them..that is a growing church..there are some things that the Pastor should get involved in..however he should be consulted before and informed of the strategy to be undertaken by the music department and give them  his blessing..That was what happened when I was selected as a M.O.M.. 

Nice!
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Offline cas10a

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2008, 04:38:49 PM »
This is wise advice.  While it is ultimately the pastors decision, the WISE thing to do would be to consult with the people who  have to work daily with this person. People who are insecure feel that they must force a viewpoint upon a person.  You wouldn't run a family that way.  Telling your wife ( who is supposed to be your helpmate) every single decision   that the family must   make.  A Wise husband would consult with his spouse on the things that she is better at, and a wise wife would consult with her husband on the things he is more capabe of handling. No one should ever make a decision in a vacuum.

I think a leader must balance consulting with advisers with "not being afraid to make the hard choices".   Sometimes the best decision is not always the most popular ones, but if everyone is looking out for the best interest of the "body" and not clouding their judgement with ulterior motives,  then I think God will honor those choices.

I have a bigger problem with Leadership  not being able to say "I made a mistake".   Sometimes  Pastor's  make bad choices ( maybe they didn't seek the lord in prayer, or maybe they were influenced by personal desires...  but we KNOW that pastor's make mistakes sometimes.  I would rather the pastor just "man up" and say I was wrong, rather than trying to get all "spiritual" and put a good spin on a bad decision.  You actually get more respect from subordinates if you treat them like they got common sense ( because some actually do..... although unfortunately some don't);

Mr Sparrow, is that you in the picture.   I got a friend Cfus whou might have went to school with you...


Jlewis

I'd have to agree with Jlewis and Mr. Sparrow...

The original question asked should the "Choir" have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?...

The only problem I see with a Choir having say, is if noone in the Choir has any real musical knowledge.  I've played for choir's where noone knew anything really about music.  I've seen rehearsals where choir member's are trying to tell other sections they are off key when it is not the case at all.

If the choir doesn't really know music how can the choir truly make an accurate assessment of who should be the musician??

Get advice from someone who knows and the Pastor should make the ultimate decision based on all factors (Prayer, God's vision, qualifications, etc...)

Offline cas10a

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2008, 05:31:36 PM »
To add to what was said above...

I've also played for choir's and PT's,  coming in as the new musician, that have told me that I'm playing a song incorrectly, when they are singing off key.  This is about the only thing that bothers me from time to time, when I know I am playing the song correctly.  I may not play it like the previous musician (others may have a different style), but when I learn a song, I usually try to play as near as possible to the recording, because I may not have any idea what the previous musician was adding to the song if anything.

In these cases, I'll politely ask someone to play the song and I'll play along so as to not cause confusion with everyone, but it gets frustrating at times.

Offline jonesl78

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2008, 09:31:58 AM »
...that's like asking the choir, " what do you want to sing on Sunday?" You'll never arrive at a consensus decision. I think the pastor should bring the candidates in, meet the choir(s) and allow the choir members to ask questions. Maybe even allow the individuas to sing, play, and/or teach the choir a song to see how the candidates mesh with the choir. Other than that, the hiring of the MOM should be left up to the governing powers of the church.

Offline ferrente

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2008, 09:49:04 PM »
...that's like asking the choir, " what do you want to sing on Sunday?" You'll never arrive at a consensus decision. I think the pastor should bring the candidates in, meet the choir(s) and allow the choir members to ask questions. Maybe even allow the individuas to sing, play, and/or teach the choir a song to see how the candidates mesh with the choir. Other than that, the hiring of the MOM should be left up to the governing powers of the church.

Nice!
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Offline Revp98

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2008, 02:25:10 PM »
Here is my opinion on this issue, I think that the pastor should make the ultimate decision. But I also think that there should be input from a comittee, not the choir. See we have to be careful about the decision making process. And what O mean is this, there is this trend in churches going around about voting people into office, auxilary head, president, etc.. Some of these people are being placed in these positions because of popularity. The thing we should never ever lose focus on is the fact that we are serving our Lord and Saviour. I have seen it personally when popularity has outweighed a more common sense/spiritual approach. Many times we want folks for all the wrong reasons and not the one that really matters. My belief is this, if you really want a M.O.M., the first few questions should be about their spiritual well being. Do you love Lord, Are you saved, how do you feel about church, etc.. Find out about that spiritual side where they are at. Because if it is not done, you are asking for problems (seen it firsthand). And please don't gt into this, this is the only person that can handle the choir or whatever. Sometimes church solong that we forget the small stuff, like praying over an appointment. But we are all human. Blessings to all. ;)

Offline ferrente

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2008, 02:28:20 PM »
Pastor/ Only  28 (44.4%)
Choir / Only  0 (0%)
Pastor and Choir  35 (55.6%)
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Total Voters: 58


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Offline vocalist182002

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Re: (Poll) Should the Choir have some say in the hiring of there M.O.M?
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2008, 06:29:22 PM »
I've been tp many churches and in different organizations thanks to my musical parents.  We've traveled and played a big part in many churches and organizations helping their music depts. to grow.  My parents had seven children, for a total of 5 singers, an organist and keyboardist and a drummer.  I recently married a drummer to add.  I've witnessed plenty of Pastor make the mistake of hiring the right and wrong MOM's, Choir and Praise Team Leaders.  From my point of view I don't think the pastor should do the hiring alone.  Yes they are the sheperd of the house and we should follow and submit to him.  I think that everyone involved in the music dept. should be involved with hiring new candidates.  The music dept. is a team and should always be treated as one. I think that everyone should vote, or the pastor should have the candidate meet the dept. for some type of orientation, so everyone can get a better pic of who they are.  The reason I say this, is :

I was a member at a church recently, I still love them to death!!  They just made some bad decisions.  Anyway, they hired a MOM to take over the music dept. and build it.  From they first day that he got there everyone dissaproved of him being there.  They really didn't like him.  He stayed a while, held concerts and musicals, meanwhile the music dept. was shrinking and everyone was loosing interest.  That's what happened everyone lost interest, stopped  coming to rehearsals, etc.  They let him go.  About 4 months later they put someone else in his place to just take over the praise team.  Same occurence.  Everything fell apart and we all split up.  I said all of that to say this.  The church is a body, one, whole.  Even though there is a pastor, he is not in it all by himself.  His decisions affect the whole body so he can't act as if he's the only one in the church.  The problem we had with our music dept. could have been avoided had we sat down and had a meeting to see if everyone was okay with the candidate from the begining.  Too many pastors have the analogy that, since I'm the pastor nobody else has a say so, this is my church and I make all of the decisions.  That's not true the members make up the church just as well as they pay tithes to make sure the church is running smoothly, so why shouldn't they have a say so in who their helping to pay?  The music dept. is an important part of today's church and can be the easisest and funnest.  All it takes is a good spirited MOM and his/her connection with the body.

Trell ;D
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