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Author Topic: Studio Recording ?'s  (Read 15320 times)

Offline TPDrummerboy

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Studio Recording ?'s
« on: June 10, 2008, 09:43:19 AM »
   What's up everyone, what do you all do in studio recordings, do you play in the or do you play all the chops you know just to be heard by someone? What to do and not to do in the studio...???

Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2008, 11:01:21 AM »
It depends on who's project you're working on.  If its yours, play whatever you want.  If its someone else's, play whatever they want. 

Offline stiksnmypocket

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 11:35:41 AM »
It depends on who's project you're working on.  If its yours, play whatever you want.  If its someone else's, play whatever they want. 

lol....exactly what he said....
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Offline BigFoot_BigThumb

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2008, 11:38:38 AM »
First you want to give the producer what they want.  Only do what you want if the producer gives you free reign.  But you also must play what the song(s) call for.  Doing your own thing too much can quickly get you replaced. 
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Offline BigFoot_BigThumb

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2008, 11:40:00 AM »
I see that all repsonses seem to be on the same wavelength.  I didn't read them before I responded.
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Offline JFunky

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2008, 12:04:06 PM »
I see that all repsonses seem to be on the same wavelength.  I didn't read them before I responded.


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Offline j_kay

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2008, 01:01:08 PM »
*lol* 
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Offline Vangie D

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2008, 02:30:41 PM »

Offline QCdrummer

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2008, 03:28:12 PM »
When recording I play straight pocket. Recording is alot harder for some reason, I guess because time is money and you gotta get that stuff done and get out.
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Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2008, 08:10:07 PM »
   What's up everyone, what do you all do in studio recordings, do you play in the or do you play all the chops you know just to be heard by someone? What to do and not to do in the studio...???

It really matters whats called for on the track.... But the Producer can over-ride my last statement! I just played drums on a track for a new artist coming out here in Canada.. The track was totally Nashvillesk but the Producer wanted me to play something which to me didn't fit the flow of the song, and me also being a Producer made it even worse. I would play fills that fit and flowed with the song and loved them but to him he didn't like them. I had to really put my head in another world to give him what he wanted.

Again the Producer had say even when I thought he was wrong... He did end up calling me back 2nd guessing himself but I gave him two takes to pull things from just in case so I don't have to make another trip out there.

As for show boating on a recording, you can almost guess that you would be digging a hole for your career if you do that! Serve the producers need first and serve the song second, IF the producer wants you to so called "go crazy" then do as he wishes.
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Offline juSe

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2008, 08:21:19 PM »
   What's up everyone, what do you all do in studio recordings, do you play in the or do you play all the chops you know just to be heard by someone? What to do and not to do in the studio...???

Honestly, why is this even a question?  This is why a lot of sound guys hate drummers.  One should always look to serve the music FIRST!!!  You are hired to do a job, so do it.  If its your project, then you do what you want.  If you are hired to do someone elses work then your job is to play the music they wan they want you to play it.  On a studio project, 9 times out of 10, you are going to be hired help.  If you want to continue to be the cat that gets the call, show up, be a professional in every sense of the word, and get your chips.
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Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 08:27:39 PM »
Honestly, why is this even a question?  This is why a lot of sound guys hate drummers.  One should always look to serve the music FIRST!!!  You are hired to do a job, so do it.  If its your project, then you do what you want.  If you are hired to do someone elses work then your job is to play the music they wan they want you to play it.  On a studio project, 9 times out of 10, you are going to be hired help.  If you want to continue to be the cat that gets the call, show up, be a professional in every sense of the word, and get your chips.

I think its a good question. Too many kids have the wrong idea of studio work.. Its like they dont see the WORK par of studio work. They think their going to go in and blaze and come out playing 50 cent and have a write up in Modern Drummer.
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Offline juSe

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 08:36:23 PM »
I think its a good question. Too many kids have the wrong idea of studio work.. Its like they dont see the WORK par of studio work. They think their going to go in and blaze and come out playing 50 cent and have a write up in Modern Drummer.

I guess you have a point DAHKNESS.  I just dont see why cats don't get it.  The cats that get all the studio work are not always the cats whti the blazing chops.  Its the cats that play the music and have great musical sense.  I'm not saying that the chops don't matter, because they do.  They count for a lot.  But they mean nothing if they are in the wrong place.  I guess until cats 100% decide that its about the music FIRST, questions like this will always be relaivent.
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Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 08:44:06 PM »
I guess you have a point DAHKNESS.  I just dont see why cats don't get it.  The cats that get all the studio work are not always the cats whti the blazing chops.  Its the cats that play the music and have great musical sense.  I'm not saying that the chops don't matter, because they do.  They count for a lot.  But they mean nothing if they are in the wrong place.  I guess until cats 100% decide that its about the music FIRST, questions like this will always be relaivent.

These days guy chops really dont matter unless youre playing anything black, progressive or fusion.
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Offline juSe

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2008, 08:52:36 PM »
These days guy chops really dont matter unless youre playing anything black, progressive or fusion.

I dig that, but what i'm saying is that they are not ALL that matter.  There are other things that count towards the equasion that people overlook.
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2008, 11:00:16 PM »
The guys getting all the studio jobs these days in all genres have REAL CHOPS - MUSICAL CHOPS (MUSICAL FUNDAMENTALS)....
They listen!!!! they have solid meter and a great internal clock and can play with and even better AROUND THE CLICK. Whether it is Vinnie, Abe Laborial Jr., Josh Freese, Russ Miller, Kenny Aronoff, Simon Phillips, Horacio Hernandez, Chester Thompson, Paul Liem, Eddie Bayers, J.D. Blair, Derico Watson, Michael White, Steve Gadd, Benard Purdie, Billy Kilson, Jeremy Haynes or Calvin Rogers.

Problem is this list should be longer. It isn't because guys today worry more about being seen, getting a check and the latest lick instead of MAKING A TIMELESS HIT MUSIC RECORD which brings more gig opps, and points from record sells thereby more money and award opps. Most of us will never make a record like "Rock Steady" by Aretha Franklin featuring Bernard Purdie on drums or "The Electric Slide" with Steve Gadd on drums or 'I Keep Forgettin'" by Michael McDonald with Jeff Porcaro on drums or "Southern Girl" by Maze with Michael White on drums. These guys often go in with the mindset to "make history" as Vinnie told Michael White to do when they were work on the Steely Dan record "Two Against Nature". BTW, the record won a Grammy for record of the year.

Catch the vision of the producer and Serve the music.
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Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2008, 11:17:27 PM »
Herbie Hancock also won a grammy for his latest project the "Joni Letters."  And of course, yours truly, Vinnie, is on drums. 

Offline bigblackdrummer

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 12:27:33 AM »
The guys getting all the studio jobs these days in all genres have REAL CHOPS - MUSICAL CHOPS (MUSICAL FUNDAMENTALS)....
They listen!!!! they have solid meter and a great internal clock and can play with and even better AROUND THE CLICK. Whether it is Vinnie, Abe Laboriel Jr., Josh Freese, Russ Miller, Kenny Aronoff, Simon Phillips, Horacio Hernandez, Chester Thompson, Paul Liem, Eddie Bayers, J.D. Blair, Derico Watson, Michael White, Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdie, Billy Kilson, Jeremy Haynes or Calvin Rogers.

Problem is this list should be longer. It isn't because guys today worry more about being seen, getting a check and the latest lick instead of MAKING A TIMELESS HIT MUSIC RECORD which brings more gig opps, and points from record sells thereby more money and award opps. Most of us will never make a record like "Rock Steady" by Aretha Franklin featuring Bernard Purdie on drums or "The Electric Slide" with Steve Gadd on drums or 'I Keep Forgetting'" by Michael McDonald with Jeff Porcaro on drums or "Southern Girl" by Maze with Michael White on drums. These guys often go in with the mindset to "make history" as Vinnie told Michael White to do when they were work on the Steely Dan record "Two Against Nature". BTW, the record won a Grammy for record of the year.

Catch the vision of the producer and Serve the music.

Calvin Rogers? No disrespecting him but he really doesn't fit with the other drummers mentioned. Maybe if you are a gospel drummer or musician you might have a song he smoked on, but really what has he played on that's timeless? Give it 10 to 20 more years and we'll see. Id love to see Calvin break out of the gospel scene and see how he does in the real world. Id like to see more integration when it comes to Nashville, New York, Cali recording scene. How often do you see a black 1st call drummer who records and play country or rock and so on.....

As for the posed question how can you blame him for asking!? Any GOSPEL drummer so far who has blazed a solo on the recording or has shown of their better than average chops live seems to get noticed right away and seems to start popping up everywhere after. Example; who really know Calvin Rodgers before the "Rain On Us" solo, then to nail his career into over drive  what he did on the Bishop Larry Trotter CD. After that everyone started looking out for and using him.... Spanky was an unknown until people started seeing him come to their Church with Tye blazing of his Chris Dave licks with Sound Check. Lets even go back in time....Look at Gerald. He's the was the KING of over playing and lashing out chops even in songs that didn't call for it like in the song that goes "the storm will pass after while".

It was a slow song and Gerald in the middle of the song pulls out one of his quads (double stroke roll between left hand on the floor tom and your kick). Out of place, yes! Sound cool heck yeah!!! BUT again it was his over playing things that at the time most could not do that got him noticed. Gerald was blamed by so many people for ruining gospel drumming because everyone felt that that was the way we should be playing, even in Church. Gospel music has seemed to raise up the show offs and the guys who sit and say well Im a musician and Im playing musically are never really noticed.

You (all) know how proper studio edicate should be BUT, do you know what it takes to actually get noticed!?
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 06:24:58 AM »
Calvin Rogers? No disrespecting him but he really doesn't fit with the other drummers mentioned. Maybe if you are a gospel drummer or musician you might have a song he smoked on, but really what has he played on that's timeless? Give it 10 to 20 more years and we'll see. Id love to see Calvin break out of the gospel scene and see how he does in the real world. Id like to see more integration when it comes to Nashville, New York, Cali recording scene. How often do you see a black 1st call drummer who records and play country or rock and so on.....

As for the posed question how can you blame him for asking!? Any GOSPEL drummer so far who has blazed a solo on the recording or has shown of their better than average chops live seems to get noticed right away and seems to start popping up everywhere after. Example; who really know Calvin Rodgers before the "Rain On Us" solo, then to nail his career into over drive  what he did on the Bishop Larry Trotter CD. After that everyone started looking out for and using him.... Spanky was an unknown until people started seeing him come to their Church with Tye blazing of his Chris Dave licks with Sound Check. Lets even go back in time....Look at Gerald. He's the was the KING of over playing and lashing out chops even in songs that didn't call for it like in the song that goes "the storm will pass after while".

It was a slow song and Gerald in the middle of the song pulls out one of his quads (double stroke roll between left hand on the floor tom and your kick). Out of place, yes! Sound cool heck yeah!!! BUT again it was his over playing things that at the time most could not do that got him noticed. Gerald was blamed by so many people for ruining gospel drumming because everyone felt that that was the way we should be playing, even in Church. Gospel music has seemed to raise up the show offs and the guys who sit and say well Im a musician and Im playing musically are never really noticed.

You (all) know how proper studio edicate should be BUT, do you know what it takes to actually get noticed!?


I think that Calvin has done his "timeless" tracks for gospel music, which is the grouping that I mentioned him in. You make some valid points on getting noticed however the point(s) I made were (1) the recognized studio guys in the various genres I mention all have the same qualities in common. They have real musical chops - they have real chops sound fundamentals not just chops as licks. They can play intently/consciously play various rudimental stickings at will voiced around the kit that have folks practicing for years just to copy. (2) They all have their own voice that doesn't get in the way of the music (3) They all play what is required at a given time not just by direction but also by listening and interacting with the music itself.

Chops in a foundational or classical music sense infers that one can play anything placed in front of them without effort and can through theory place place things accordingly in a musical situation instinctively. Instinctively implies that the senses have been honed to make a split-second decision based on the the skills mastered and the understandings thereof and through anticipation answer a question/situation (musical in this case) before it is even asked. That brings about discovery and expansion of the arena/craft it is applied to. These things came through the musicians guild and various other guilds (unions) of old. That gets you noticed... Question is who is it that folk want to notice them and what is their value in character. The gifted were taken on as apprentice and released to be themselves when they had proven mastery. Even then they were representative of their "fathers"/masters (teachers) until they had built up their own creditials. When I previously said the list was too short it was to encourage a return to this system of thought which proved to make one greatly admired and used and recorded in the history of what they did as a profession. The fore mentioned session players will always be remembered because their work is documented in proven value.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: Studio Recording ?'s
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2008, 08:48:56 AM »
Wow. This may spark another subject but in today's gospel music, is there anything timeless?  BBD has made an excellent point. Outside of what the Hawkins and the Winans did, I don't think a timeless gospel recording has been made in the last 15 to 20 years.  Lately they've  all been fast food recordings. Its not surprising though.  Gospel has way too much R&B influence which will naturally result in a "flavor of the day" style of music, which in return births "flavor of the day" musicians.  Indeed, they will eventually play themselves out.  You will grow tired of hearing certain drummers...some of us are already tired of hearing certain drummers.
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