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[nessalynn77]

yes it was wrong but my issue is the punishment does not fit the crime. Not that there was no crime committed.

For instance the law says A. you have a man can have less than an ounce of crack( which he uses on himself or people who WANT to buy it) and B. a man who willingly drinks himself drunk gets in his car unforced and then drives down the street and hits an innocent person who doe snot know or want to get hit by a drunk driver.

Guess who does more time? The crack man. But that is the law and we know it;s wrong because people do more drinking and driving than crack dealing.

That is my point. And why is the law stiffer - because black men deal crack. If you mad ethe law equal even you run the risk of locking up too many yuppie whie boys and business men who do  often drink and drive ( based on statistics)

 I agree that the law is unbalanced, I stop well short of drawing the direct relationship between the color of crack dealers and drunk drivers.  

But let's give you that point and suppose it is directed at arresting more young black men.  Knowing this, young black men still choose to be crack dealers and run the risk of being put away for thirty years.  Theirs is not a cause I want to defend.  What I would put my time and effort into, is deterring them from making that choice and running that risk in the first place.  

[nessalynn77]

LOL!  Jonathan, is it possible you and LL had a long lost half sister? 

[J31]

 I agree that the law is unbalanced, I stop well short of drawing the direct relationship between the color of crack dealers and drunk drivers.  

But let's give you that point and suppose it is directed at arresting more young black men.  Knowing this, young black men still choose to be crack dealers and run the risk of being put away for thirty years.  Theirs is not a cause I want to defend.  What I would put my time and effort into, is deterring them from making that choice and running that risk in the first place.  

True that is a sin issue in general folks always want to do the wrong thing. SJ- going to post those stas for you in a min. Statman!

[sjonathan02]

LOL!  Jonathan, is it possible you and LL had a long lost half sister? 

Hey, ya neva know!! LOL!!

[sjonathan02]

True that is a sin issue in general folks always want to do the wrong thing. SJ- going to post those stas for you in a min. Statman!

You know what, don't bother. Since you can't recognize the fact that FOLKS (I don't care what color you are) shouldn't be dealin' crack in the first place, your argument is moot and indefensible no matter what stats you find.

STOP DEALIN' CRACK; STOP DEALIN' WITH THE UNBALANCED LAW!!! PERIOD!!

[J31]

You know what, don't bother. Since you can't recognize the fact that FOLKS (I don't care what color you are) shouldn't be dealin' crack in the first place, your argument is moot and indefensible no matter what stats you find.

STOP DEALIN' CRACK; STOP DEALIN' WITH THE UNBALANCED LAW!!! PERIOD!!

Regardless here are the facts not my opinion. Let me ask you something if your son committed a crime. he told you he did it. Would youget him a lawyer or just go before the judge and say " my son did it, we don't need a lawyer, go ahed and give him the time"?

I digrees

SJ – I’m just sticking with California since laws do vary somewhat  but the facts are clear ..

Starting in High School 2005 Stats from the CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5505a1.htm

Rode with a Driver Who Had Been Drinking Alcohol
During the 30 days preceding the survey, 28.5% of students nationwide had ridden one or more times in a car or other vehicle driven by someone who had been drinking alcohol (Table 4). Overall, the prevalence of having ridden with a driver who had been drinking alcohol was higher among female (29.6%) than male (27.2%) students; higher among white female (30.4%) than white male (26.2%) students; and higher among 10th grade female (29.5%) than 10th grade male (26.2%) students. Overall, the prevalence of having ridden with a driver who had been drinking alcohol was higher among white (28.3%) and Hispanic (36.1%) than black (24.1%) students; higher among Hispanic (36.1%) than white (28.3%) students; higher among white female (30.4%) and Hispanic female (34.7%) than black female (24.0%) students; higher among Hispanic female (34.7%) than white female (30.4%) students; and higher among Hispanic male (37.4%) than white male (26.2%) and black male (24.3%) students. Overall, the prevalence of having ridden

Drove When Drinking Alcohol

Overall, the prevalence of having driven when they had been drinking alcohol was higher among male (11.7%) than female (8.1%) students; higher among white male (12.4%), black male (6.5%), and Hispanic male (14.6%) than white female (10.1%), black female (3.5%), and Hispanic female (6.4%) students, respectively; Prevalence of having driven a car when they had been drinking alcohol ranged from 4.1% to 22.0% across state surveys (median: 11.0%) and from 3.7% to 13.6% across local surveys (median: 7.9%)




Crack Cocaine 1st time offender

The federal sentencing guidelines allow for a maximum of one year in prison for a first-time offender, a maximum of two years in prison for a second-time offender, and a maximum of three years in prison for a third-time offender (or higher). Please note the exception for crack cocaine - the sentence for possession of more than five grams of crack cocaine is increased to a minimum of five years in prison, even for those who are first-time offenders.

Source: http://ag.ca.gov/cjsc/publications/misc/dui97.pdf

Q: What are the penalties for vehicular manslaughter in California?

A: If the offense is a misdemeanor, up to one year in the county jail. If felony DUI vehicular manslaughter (but without gross negligence) is found, the sentence can be up to four years in state prison. If felony DUI vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence is found, the court can impose up to 10 years state prison. Substantial drivers license suspensions may also be imposed.
Taken from http://www.southern-california-dui-defense.com/vehicular_manslaughter.html

[sjonathan02]

Regardless here are the facts not my opinion. Let me ask you something if your son committed a crime. he told you he did it. Would youget him a lawyer or just go before the judge and say " my son did it, we don't need a lawyer, go ahed and give him the time"?

I digrees

SJ – I’m just sticking with California since laws do vary somewhat  but the facts are clear ..

You do realize that this is a silly question, don't you? He'd get a lawyer. At the same time, he'd need a doctor.....





























to remove my foot from his behind for COMMITTING the crime. Because, I KNOW I would've taught him BETTER than that and there'd be NO reason for him to do such a thing. Period.


I'm sure you feel the same way about YOUR son.

Why are you missing that part? If you're son admitted he committed a crime, are you saying that you'd try to get him off, scott free?

Is that what we do with sin? No. We repent and pay whatever penalties come with that. Thank God for Jesus, because He already REDUCED our sentences!!! HALLELUJAH!!! 

[NJTheBishopAnderson]

You do realize that this is a silly question, don't you? He'd get a lawyer. At the same time, he'd need a doctor.....



to remove my foot from his behind for COMMITTING the crime. Because, I KNOW I would've taught him BETTER than that and there'd be NO reason for him to do such a thing. Period.


I'm sure you feel the same way about YOUR son.

Why are you missing that part? If you're son admitted he committed a crime, are you saying that you'd try to get him off, scott free?

Is that what we do with sin? No. We repent and pay whatever penalties come with that. Thank God for Jesus, because He already REDUCED our sentences!!! HALLELUJAH!!! 

That'll PREACH right dea!!

[J31]

You do realize that this is a silly question, don't you? He'd get a lawyer. At the same time, he'd need a doctor.....

I'm sure you feel the same way about YOUR son.

Why are you missing that part? If you're son admitted he committed a crime, are you saying that you'd try to get him off, scott free?

Is that what we do with sin? No. We repent and pay whatever penalties come with that. Thank God for Jesus, because He already REDUCED our sentences!!! HALLELUJAH!!! 

And now we can talk. You and I would get a lawyer why because the crime is never the catalyst it is the punishment that we both would want to reduce. Maybe somethign about God grace and mercy plays into it someplace. We get the lawyer because we KNOW the law is messed up. And if by some way the lawyer who understands the courtroom can manipulate that law( which is our hope) and get a sentence that is less than what the law says it shoudl be, we are both ok with that even if that means, our sons get off and do no jail time or whatever.

neither of us would say " Your honor I know the lawyer got a reduced sentence or got my son off but he did the crime regardless to whether his rights were read. Regardless to whether they questioned him without a parent there, he should not get off because of that , he did the crime"

Onthe same note. My son makes his 1st mistake maybe peer pressure maybe I was not the best father and he gets made and does something to get my attention but the law says so what he is going in for 5 years no matter what and he is only 16. Now what ???

[sjonathan02]

And now we can talk. You and I would get a lawyer why because the crime is never the catalyst it is the punishment that we both would want to reduce. Maybe somethign about God grace and mercy plays into it someplace. We get the lawyer because we KNOW the law is messed up. And if by some way the lawyer who understands the courtroom can manipulate that law( which is our hope) and get a sentence that is less than what the law says it shoudl be, we are both ok with that even if that means, our sons get off and do no jail time or whatever.

neither of us would say " Your honor I know the lawyer got a reduced sentence or got my son off but he did the crime regardless to whether his rights were read. Regardless to whether they questioned him without a parent there, he should not get off because of that , he did the crime"

Onthe same note. My son makes his 1st mistake maybe peer pressure maybe I was not the best father and he gets made and does something to get my attention but the law says so what he is going in for 5 years no matter what and he is only 16. Now what ???

One's first mistake could be fatal. As a result, if you do the crime, you MUST do the time. Ask Baretta! 

And yes, if the best your wife could get your son was 5 years, then that's what he must do. He could get time off for good behavior and be out in 2.


BTW, I don't get the lawyer because the law is messed up. I get the lawyer to try to get a smaller penalty.

So, you're telling me that your son shouldn't do time, if the he the crime? That's what it sounds like, to me. As if, because YOU don't like the law, that your son, even though he admitted to the criminal act, shouldn't face any time. 

That'll PREACH right dea!!

 

[J31]

One's first mistake could be fatal. As a result, if you do the crime, you MUST do the time. Ask Baretta! 

And yes, if the best your wife could get your son was 5 years, then that's what he must do. He could get time off for good behavior and be out in 2.


BTW, I don't get the lawyer because the law is messed up. I get the lawyer to try to get a smaller penalty.

So, you're telling me that your son shouldn't do time, if the he the crime? That's what it sounds like, to me. As if, because YOU don't like the law, that your son, even though he admitted to the criminal act, shouldn't face any time. 


 

1st my wife would not do it. Too close to the issue she might miss something.  She has already told folks she will nto defend family. She believes that that is where things can get messed up because the law...it is not emotional. Anyway..... I think I should let the lawyer do what God has given them the gift to do. Not what comes out of that..hey that is between the lawyer, the judge or jury and God. 

[sjonathan02]

1st my wife would not do it. Too close to the issue she might miss something.  She has already told folks she will nto defend family. She believes that that is where things can get messed up because the law...it is not emotional. Anyway..... I think I should let the lawyer do what God has given them the gift to do. Not what comes out of that..hey that is between the lawyer, the judge or jury and God. 

I'm wondering if you meant for it to sound that shifty and shady.

[J31]

I'm wondering if you meant for it to sound that shifty and shady.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN? If the lawyer says" We have an out, or because this was missed or this witness is not credible, I think I can get the court to see it in a more positive light" Of course I am going to say " I hired you to do your job not to tell you your job" . Period

who goes into a court room to loose?

Are you saying you would tell the lawyer " no don't do your best work"

[LaylaMonroe]

My two cents on dis hea HIJACKED thread...

1. Do the crime, do the time.

2. Don't like the law, become a lawmaker.

3. Torturing defenseless animals is just wrong.

If the punishment for dealing crack was life without the possibility of parole, I'd say:

1. Do the crime, do the time.

2. Don't like the law, stop selling crack you stupid idiot and become a lawmaker.

[sjonathan02]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN? If the lawyer says" We have an out, or because this was missed or this witness is not credible, I think I can get the court to see it in a more positive light" Of course I am going to say " I hired you to do your job not to tell you your job" . Period

who goes into a court room to loose?

Are you saying you would tell the lawyer " no don't do your best work"

Apples and oranges, dude. I never said that. I asked you if you meant for your statement to sound (or, in this case, read) as shifty and shady as it read TO ME. Just answer the question, stop trying to backpedal and make it sound sweeter. 


I've got to drive home, I'll be there in about 30. I'll be back, then.

[sjonathan02]

My two cents on dis hea HIJACKED thread...

1. Do the crime, do the time.

2. Don't like the law, become a lawmaker.

3. Torturing defenseless animals is just wrong.

If the punishment for dealing crack was life without the possibility of parole, I'd say:

1. Do the crime, do the time.

2. Don't like the law, stop selling crack you stupid idiot and become a lawmaker.

And, therein lies the simplicity of this whole discussion. Especially, if you don't like the law, become a law MAKER not just a lawyer who can skirt around the already bad law. 

If you're gift of gab is THAT tight, then take it to Capitol Hill.

[J31]

Apples and oranges, dude. I never said that. I asked you if you meant for your statement to sound (or, in this case, read) as shifty and shady as it read TO ME. Just answer the question, stop trying to backpedal and make it sound sweeter. 

No I did not.

I gotta run too me and the son are going fishin for the afternoon.

[J31]

My two cents on dis hea HIJACKED thread...

1. Do the crime, do the time.
Tell that to O.J or tell that to those who did not actually do the crime but did not have resources to prove otherwise or they got some public pretender to represent them who did not do any real work on their case.

2. Don't like the law, become a lawmaker.

Lawmakers have nothing to do with the law, politicians do

3. Torturing defenseless animals is just wrong.
 
So is destroying 3rd world countries for oil but u still drive your car and you know where those fine clothes you wear comes from sweatshops. and what child labor made those shoes you rock????
If the punishment for dealing crack was life without the possibility of parole, I'd say:

1. Do the crime, do the time.
I hope you never have to see your son or close family member stand in court.

2. Don't like the law, stop selling crack you stupid idiot and become a lawmaker.
Do you really think dope dealers are dumb? most are probably as smart or smarter than you and I with far fewer options ( so they think)

[LaylaMonroe]

1. I won't argue that point.  As much as I hate to see innocent people jailed for crimes they didn't commit, I still believe that those who DO the crime should do the time.  I realize that some criminals can/will get off because they have better representation than those who don't get off.  I realize that some innocent folks will go to prison because they can't afford good representation.  Those scenarios do not negate my argument that if you do the crime, you should do the time.

2. Lawmakers are politicians.  But, I think you probably knew that and were making a joke???  If so, it went over my head... please 'splain... lol.  I'm slow.   

3. I have no choice but to drive my car, and none of my fine clothes or shoes come from sweatshops or the hands of child laborers.  None of them.  I can say that with certainty.  However, for those whose clothes DO come from sweatshops, none of the hands that make them are handcuffed and forced to work in that sweatshop.  (And don't lecture me on the conditions, etc... I fought that cause for years).

4. Been there, done that.  When my nephew was just 2 months old, I watched his father be sentenced to 15-25 years for manslaughter.  Until December 2006, I watched my nephew grow up without his father... for 15 years.  His father wasn't a criminal (before the incident).  Had no arrest record.  Had a good job and was a very good father.  Got into a fight (wasn't even his fight) and the dude pulled out a gun, he wrestled the gun away from him and, in the heat of the moment, shot dude with his own gun.  Just like that, threw away 15 years of his life and missed 15 years of his son's life.  My sister and my whole family, and his whole family were all devastated.

I still say: do the crime, do the time.

5. Yes, I really think dope dealers are dumb.  (But, actually, I used the words stupid and idiot).

Enjoy fishing!

[sjonathan02]

1. I won't argue that point.  As much as I hate to see innocent people jailed for crimes they didn't commit, I still believe that those who DO the crime should do the time.  I realize that some criminals can/will get off because they have better representation than those who don't get off.  I realize that some innocent folks will go to prison because they can't afford good representation.  Those scenarios do not negate my argument that if you do the crime, you should do the time.


Agreed. Which is why I say the same thing. Because it works both ways, until somone plugs the loophole. Like Nino Brown said, 'Don't get mad, Tito, it's the law.'

2. Lawmakers are politicians.  But, I think you probably knew that and were making a joke???  If so, it went over my head... please 'splain... lol.  I'm slow.   

He wasn't; he thought he was making a point.

3. I have no choice but to drive my car, and none of my fine clothes or shoes come from sweatshops or the hands of child laborers.  None of them.  I can say that with certainty.  However, for those whose clothes DO come from sweatshops, none of the hands that make them are handcuffed and forced to work in that sweatshop.  (And don't lecture me on the conditions, etc... I fought that cause for years).

I don't necessarily agree with the whole their hands aren't tied theory. For many people in those countries, they are. But, I don't live there. So......

4. Been there, done that.  When my nephew was just 2 months old, I watched his father be sentenced to 15-25 years for manslaughter.  Until December 2006, I watched my nephew grow up without his father... for 15 years.  His father wasn't a criminal (before the incident).  Had no arrest record.  Had a good job and was a very good father.  Got into a fight (wasn't even his fight) and the dude pulled out a gun, he wrestled the gun away from him and, in the heat of the moment, shot dude with his own gun.  Just like that, threw away 15 years of his life and missed 15 years of his son's life.  My sister and my whole family, and his whole family were all devastated.

I still say: do the crime, do the time.


Can't say nothin', so I'll just wave my hand. *wave*

5. Yes, I really think dope dealers are dumb.  (But, actually, I used the words stupid and idiot).

Very much so. You'd think they'd stop dealing if they really knew the laws of the land. In addition, they slip through the loopholes. THAT'S what should MAKE you agree, J31; all of the dirtbag drug dealers and crooks pimpin' the system.


Enjoy fishing!