The Simple Meat Of Theory?....

[seemunny]

When the question comes up about musicians learning "music theory", there are at least a few levels that one could take it to.

I'm personally still learning each day (thanks to resources like LGM, Hear & Play, and others...), but there may be certain very elite levels that i may not be so interested in. However, i ABSOLUTELY feel that there is a CERTAIN AMOUNT (or a certain level) of music theory that a musician could certainly benefit from if he/she chooses to do so. I call that the "practical level" or the "meat" of it.

And it seems to me that basically the "practical level" consists of:

1) Understanding what the "number system" is.
2) Understanding "how to build ANY chord", and...
3) Understanding "common chord progressions", which also touches on the circle of 5ths.

Now, of course there are a lot more areas & details to cover, but it seems that, if you can get to this level, (which is not very difficult at all), then you have just created an "internal teacher". And that amount of knowledge can allow you to "self-teach" yourself into the future and other areas.

All i'm trying to do is to keep it short, but yet cover the most important areas. If i can do that, then i'm satisfied.

The three elements above is how i see it at this point. It seems to me, those three elements are the most critical areas, that if you know them, that's when your learning can start to speed up, and you can really start to get your "self-teach" on that will take you to the next levels, or however far you wanna go.

For all you theory heads, did the above three element cover "the meat" of it (while keeping it as short & concise as possible), or where there any HUGE omissions?

[divinemusician]

this is really good info to me.. so can you reply with Step 1. Understanding the Number system. How do we find the number system and how do we apply it to our playing?

[T-Block]

For all you theory heads, did the above three element cover "the meat" of it (while keeping it as short & concise as possible), or where there any HUGE omissions?

CO-SIZZLE!!!  Dude, I been preaching teaching this since I 1st started posting about theory on this site.  If you know, understand, and utilize those 3 pieces of music theory, then that should suffice for the average musician.

However, for those wanting to go to that next level of "music theory", u will find that this is just the gateway to it.

this is really good info to me.. so can you reply with Step 1. Understanding the Number system. How do we find the number system and how do we apply it to our playing?

Come on Kish, I'm sure u know the number system already.  In it's simplest form, it is just the notes of the major scale turned into numbers.  So, ur first job b4 even trying to apply it to your playing is to go through EVERY major scale and turn them into numbers.  Time to come out of C# my friend, LOL.

[divinemusician]

Come on Kish, I'm sure u know the number system already.  In it's simplest form, it is just the notes of the major scale turned into numbers.  So, ur first job b4 even trying to apply it to your playing is to go through EVERY major scale and turn them into numbers.  Time to come out of C# my friend, LOL.

yea I know it but whta I guess I am trying to do is... on a lot of websites Theory is just throwin everywhere... and it is hard for a person (well maybe just me) to sit down and graps or understand this stuff. take 2+2=4 we have been tought that since preschool but when you say 3+1=4 or 1+1+1+1=4 or 2+1+1=4 you learn all those formulas later, I guess what I am really trying to do and I am working on it now, is as I learn my theory getting a book together that is really orgainized and really teaches the simple but fun way of learning your numbers, theory, music, etc. bc some theory is easy for you guys but to a person that has a hard time understand that stuff is greek. I don't know maybe I am just confussing myself, lol.

[Fenix]

yea I know it but whta I guess I am trying to do is... on a lot of websites Theory is just throwin everywhere... and it is hard for a person (well maybe just me) to sit down and graps or understand this stuff. take 2+2=4 we have been tought that since preschool but when you say 3+1=4 or 1+1+1+1=4 or 2+1+1=4 you learn all those formulas later, I guess what I am really trying to do and I am working on it now, is as I learn my theory getting a book together that is really orgainized and really teaches the simple but fun way of learning your numbers, theory, music, etc. bc some theory is easy for you guys but to a person that has a hard time understand that stuff is greek. I don't know maybe I am just confussing myself, lol.

Where is your beast of a cousin?

[kodacolor]

 

[divinemusician]

Where is your beast of a cousin?

she is here... i see right now i am going to have to shut your mouth up !!!

give me this week.... I will upload some stuff of her playing.

[musallio]

That's very good C$$..I don't think you omitted anything major..

So I'm not so much irritated by people shying away from music theory as a whole, but from these 3 elements..These are the foundations to help someone to be able to communicate musically in a practical way..funny because we get on so well with my sis now because we speak the same language & I no longer have to say you "do this then that, then you go there & do this.. " no concepts whatsoever..& that just encourages learning in that 1 key only!

[chevonee]

This is some real good stuff here...

[Wolfram]

Understanding WHICH number system to use is important as well.  I was lost until I got educated as to what you all were talking about here.  I am still walking around like a newborn with this system.  When I use a number system it is based on jazz theory, which is based on chord relevence to the static, non-movable tonic or Key of the actual tune.  It is a far jump from the number system here because I use Roman numerals and flats, sharps and alterations to further my verbiage.

For example:  your number system may right something like this ----> 2 - 5 - 1  (In my head, I do not have enough information to make
                                                                                                             chord decisions.  Major?, minor?, augments?)

                   Mine would be written as -----> ii - V7 - I  (this tells me the two chord is minor, the five chord is both major and dominant
                                                                               and tonic is major)

I learned recently that if we base your numbering on the figured bass (major scale), then 2 would be minor, 5 would be major and 1 is tonic.  I don't know where the extentions come in.   Where do you get diminshed, augmented, or 9ths, 11ths, or 13ths from?

The system I learned tells you exactly what it wants:  I(ma7) - VI(b9) - ii9 - V7(b9)

[sjonathan02]

Understanding WHICH number system to use is important as well.  I was lost until I got educated as to what you all were talking about here.  I am still walking around like a newborn with this system.  When I use a number system it is based on jazz theory, which is based on chord relevence to the static, non-movable tonic or Key of the actual tune.  It is a far jump from the number system here because I use Roman numerals and flats, sharps and alterations to further my verbiage.

For example:  your number system may right something like this ----> 2 - 5 - 1  (In my head, I do not have enough information to make
                                                                                                             chord decisions.  Major?, minor?, augments?)

                   Mine would be written as -----> ii - V7 - I  (this tells me the two chord is minor, the five chord is both major and dominant
                                                                               and tonic is major)

I learned recently that if we base your numbering on the figured bass (major scale), then 2 would be minor, 5 would be major and 1 is tonic.  I don't know where the extentions come in.   Where do you get diminshed, augmented, or 9ths, 11ths, or 13ths from?

The system I learned tells you exactly what it wants:  I(ma7) - VI(b9) - ii9 - V7(b9)

Actually, the number system is relatively the same. When we say 2-5-1 we mean, generally, the two being minor the five being major and the one being major as well.

Also, we add the extensions the same way you do in Jazz. You'd have to look around at the way different folks use the number system.

Hope that helps.

[Wolfram]

I love this place...  I am always in learning mode...   

[sjonathan02]

I love this place...  I am always in learning mode...   

I'm tryin' to really learn how to incorporate my left in playing these chords. I can do two note LH 'chords' and sometimes, when I think about it, use tri-tones in those incorporations, but my rhythm? You'd swear I was white. 

But, I feel you about the learning mode.

[Fenix]

I'm tryin' to really learn how to incorporate my left in playing these chords. I can do two note LH 'chords' and sometimes, when I think about it, use tri-tones in those incorporations, but my rhythm? You'd swear I was white. 

But, I feel you about the learning mode.

 

Just sit down and learn your chords on your LH man. As far as tri-tones are concerned, at least you can play them. We play so much CCM stuff at church that there is no room for tri-tones. I tried putting in a tri-tones once and got the Evil Eye. My church is not used to hearing dissonance in music.

I love this place...  I am always in learning mode...   

What i have learned on LGM is priceless. I have looked everywhere for info on playing gospel music and this is about the only place i can find it. Plus roughly 95 percent of it is free.

***Sticks nose in air***

The non-free stuff is beneath my level. (These sour grapes taste good) 

[Wolfram]

Well,  I am a white boy so maybe I can help you 

I cover this in my Intermediate Jazz forum Lesson 1:  http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,57684.0.html

If you use these voicings, you will find yourself hopping along with the II-V7-I progression in no time 

[sjonathan02]

Just sit down and learn your chords on your LH man. As far as tri-tones are concerned, at least you can play them. We play so much CCM stuff at church that there is no room for tri-tones. I tried putting in a tri-tones once and got the Evil Eye. My church is not used to hearing dissonance in music.

What i have learned on LGM is priceless. I have looked everywhere for info on playing gospel music and this is about the only place i can find it. Plus roughly 95 percent of it is free.

***Sticks nose in air***

The non-free stuff is beneath my level. (These sour grapes taste good) 

So, stop playing dissonant tri-tones....duh!!  You can play tri-tones that are smooth and won't get you the evil eye. 

[Fenix]

but my rhythm? You'd swear I was white. 

Well,  I am a white boy so maybe I can help you 

***In a sing-song voice***

Awkward...


In any case i need to stop by the jazz forum. Id din't know it was active again. It had been dry for a while and there were some gems in there.

[T-Block]

For example:  your number system may right something like this ----> 2 - 5 - 1  (In my head, I do not have enough information to make
                                                                                                             chord decisions.  Major?, minor?, augments?)

I'll tell ya a little secret man, when I first started posting stuff using regular numbers instead of roman numerals, I was just trying to create a way to learn the pattern of a song and transfer it to other keys easily.  I just stuck with learning the bass notes, then leaving the chord decisions up to the individual.  U can play whatever chord u want to, as long as u got the right bass to go with it.

I have been through the classical and jazz theory in school as well, so I can understand why someone like urself would be lost using anything other than Roman numerals.  I did kinda get this system from figured bass notation, but wanted to keep it in "dummy" terms for people who hadn't been to music school.

[Fenix]

I don't get what is so confusing. If i use a 2 or ii or II, it's are all the same thing.

[T-Block]

I don't get what is so confusing. If i use a 2 or ii or II, it's are all the same thing.

Believe it or not Fenix, written out like that all three of those say 3 "different" things.  It all depends on how u been taught:

2 = 2nd scale degree

ii = minor chord on 2nd scale degree

II = major chord on 2nd scale degree

I agree with ur thinking cuz when I see 2 in any form, I know exactly what sounds to expect.  Others may need a little more information.