Help from my guitar cousins.

[floaded27]

Hello. My name is Charles and im a regular in the bass forum. Recently two kids at my church wanted me to teach them how to play guitar because they see me play every sunday. After a brief discussion with them about the difference (they just see it looks the same so its pretty much the same in their eyes) its understood that they do indeed want to learn guitar.

Now Im truly considering just buying a cheap guitar to tinker around with (tried one out in Guitar Center and chording is gonna be a true task) but since i have my musical foundation with playing bass as well as working on keys, i believe i can pick it up fairly easily (just getting the chording mechanics down is the real difficulty).

However, 9 year olds are a different story. I did one beginning music lesson with them so far (going over names of notes and stuff like that) and i noticed that after so much time, they tend to become easily distracted as is expected with kids. So i need to get them actively playing something ASAP to keep them interested, but i need to without shortchanging them but not overwhelming them. Any suggestions or experiences to share on ideas about how i should approach this, definitely keeping in mind that they are children.

Thanks. I definitely appreciate your help, my fellow guitar cousins. lol.

[gtrdave]

Not to be a Norman Negative or anything, but realize that not every kid is going to be interested in learning how to play an instrument. Not now and maybe not never.
MOST KIDS like the "idea" of playing the guitar or whatever, but few like the work associated with learning how to play.

For me when I used to teach, I used to 2 pronged approach: teach them something that they're interested in and teach them the theory and/or technique behind it. If they show little interest to learn songs that interest them, they're either not ready yet or they're not interested at all. Just have to be diligent for a period and see what happens.

[Fenix]

I sometimes get frustrated with music cuz there is NO shortcut. You have to put in the work or you will get nowhere fast.

MOST KIDS like the "idea" of playing the guitar or whatever, but few like the work associated with learning how to play.

Profound. Might i also add GIRLS. I do not teach girls how to play guitar cuz they like the idea but when they ask me "So what do i need to learn first" i say, "Well, the first step is to buy a guitar..."

At this point i start seeing glazed stares.

[gtrdave]

I sometimes get frustrated with music cuz there is NO shortcut. You have to put in the work or you will get nowhere fast.

Profound. Might i also add GIRLS. I do not teach girls how to play guitar cuz they like the idea but when they ask me "So what do i need to learn first" i say, "Well, the first step is to buy a guitar..."

At this point i start seeing glazed stares.

My oldest daughter would be the exception to some degree. She comes from (on my wife's side) a very gifted line of musicians and I guess some of what I have got passed on to her as well.
She's a natural player and she's been picking up stuff by ear, starting with melodies and then rhythms and so on.
The thing is that (I feel) she doesn't practice nearly enough. If she did she'd be a monster player, but I know that her time is occupied with school, her horse, her friends and a part-time job.
Still, I caught her playing after youth group last week and I was just as impressed as a dad can be, watching her just pick out stuff by ear and play it with little effort.

She's one of about 3 girls locally that are taking guitar playing more seriously than many of the boys. 

[floaded27]

Pick a three chord song with a distinctive rythmn guitar part like Chris Tomlin's album version of How Great is Our God. Transcribe it to a key with easy chords and have them play that.

Thats a good song since we sing that at our church. There are also plenty of easy songs to do the same for so im not at a loss with that. The question is "which are the easy chords"? Coming from a bass and keyboard background each key presents the same or similar level of difficulty so the concept of a key with easy chords isnt there. Could you list out easy chords or point out what makes a chord "easy" so i can figure it out myself?

MOST KIDS like the "idea" of playing the guitar or whatever, but few like the work associated with learning how to play.

They actually have shown interest, even in the theory stuff. But i dont want to be like one of those classes where you go months before you even get to touch the instrument you're supposed to be learning. thats a sure-fire way to lose interest. And for kids you definitely dont want it to feel like more school, as opposed to a creative activity, which means i need to get them more active.



I'll start with chords this week and teach them the song. and break it up with the theory.


One more question. Should they use those "junior sized" guitars made for kids (since parents tend to buy those) or should they stay with regular sized guitars?

[gtrdave]

One more question. Should they use those "junior sized" guitars made for kids (since parents tend to buy those) or should they stay with regular sized guitars?

Depends on their physical size (the kids, not the guitars so much).
Some lanky kid can get his or her arms around a big full-sized acoustic while smaller framed kids can't.
Thankfully there are plenty of "in between" sized guitars that are decent quality these days. Folk or parlor sized guitars might be a good start if the kids are smaller.
Try to stick to popular name-brands (Yamaha, Seagull, Takamine) and not bad Chinese-made stuff (First Act, Rogue).
Both Martin and Taylor make decent quality junior sized guitars, but they are near $300. Probably more than you want to spend.

This looks similar to what I started on when I was 12:
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Hohner-HW03-34Scale-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=512511

[floaded27]

Depends on their physical size (the kids, not the guitars so much).
Some lanky kid can get his or her arms around a big full-sized acoustic while smaller framed kids can't.

What about electric guitars which arent so wide-bodied? I was gonna get me a $99 Fender Squire to work on the basics to show them. Maybe when I get what Im getting I could just let them play on it to see how comfortable it is.

Just wanted to know what i should/could suggest, because the kids arent buying anything. The parents are, and since they dont know one thing from another, they may tend to pick up anything (especially when it has to do with price).

Keys which lead to easy open or cowboy chords.
They are  normally the first chords taught in a method book. Songs tend to be in keys like E, G, A any time you can take advantage of open strings in your chord shapes.

thanks for that. i'll keep that in mind. bad thing about that though is most gospel music (or at least the stuff we play/sing in our church is in Ab, Eb, Db, or F#) but i guess by the time they're ready to play in service they should be up to that level to handle that.

[gtrdave]

What about electric guitars which arent so wide-bodied? I was gonna get me a $99 Fender Squire to work on the basics to show them. Maybe when I get what Im getting I could just let them play on it to see how comfortable it is.

Just wanted to know what i should/could suggest, because the kids arent buying anything. The parents are, and since they dont know one thing from another, they may tend to pick up anything (especially when it has to do with price).

An electric guitar requires an amp, too, so there's an extra cost besides just the guitar. Also, as I mentioned in another thread similar to this one but last week, with the electric and the amp and the chord comes more moving parts and more things that depend on quality electronics to function properly. To me, this translates to more stuff to be preoccupied with (rather than just learning music and how to play) and more stuff to break ("my cable broke, the jack fell out, my volume knob is scratchy, the amp won't turn on, etc...").

Sure, the advantage is that an electric typically has a smaller (but heavier) body and the string-to-fret action is typically lower than on an acoustic, but on an acoustic you just pick it up and play and for someone just starting out, to me, it seems the easier route.
All this is just opinion, though, but it's based on almost 30 years of playing and almost as much time teaching others. I'm not saying either one, acoustic or electric, is better or worse, just giving you a heads-up on what maybe to expect.

If you're going to get yourself a $99 Squier, you may want to play it first to be sure it's what you want. Those guitars are somewhat disposable and you may have to play a couple different ones to find a good one that will last you for a while. Good alternatives to the Squier is the Yamaha PAC electric, the Dean Evo and the Ibanez GA series.
Regardless, yeah it might be cool for you to get something and then let them check it out and see what happens.

[Fenix]

Try to stick to popular name-brands (Yamaha, Seagull, Takamine) and not bad Chinese-made stuff (First Act, Rogue).

Wow, how do i stress the extreme importance of this. I started out on a Rogue...worst thing i could have ever done. The action was so high that i thought it was normal for guitars to be that difficult to play until i picked up a Jasmine in GC.

[funkStrat_97]

A good and timely topic.  My two older daughers are into music.  They have both shown an interest in guitar, but the younger one is starting to gravitate towards the piano (the older has had piano lessons, but doesn't play the keys that much - she's a tall girl too, so I may be looking to get her a full-sized guitar).

[floaded27]

An electric guitar requires an amp, too, so there's an extra cost besides just the guitar. Also, as I mentioned in another thread similar to this one but last week, with the electric and the amp and the chord comes more moving parts and more things that depend on quality electronics to function properly. To me, this translates to more stuff to be preoccupied with (rather than just learning music and how to play) and more stuff to break ("my cable broke, the jack fell out, my volume knob is scratchy, the amp won't turn on, etc...").

Sure, the advantage is that an electric typically has a smaller (but heavier) body and the string-to-fret action is typically lower than on an acoustic, but on an acoustic you just pick it up and play and for someone just starting out, to me, it seems the easier route.
All this is just opinion, though, but it's based on almost 30 years of playing and almost as much time teaching others. I'm not saying either one, acoustic or electric, is better or worse, just giving you a heads-up on what maybe to expect.

If you're going to get yourself a $99 Squier, you may want to play it first to be sure it's what you want. Those guitars are somewhat disposable and you may have to play a couple different ones to find a good one that will last you for a while. Good alternatives to the Squier is the Yamaha PAC electric, the Dean Evo and the Ibanez GA series.
Regardless, yeah it might be cool for you to get something and then let them check it out and see what happens.

thanks for the info. im a bass player and theres nothin better to me than the feel of a bass, but if i have to work with a guitar (they're smaller) i need the solid body electric, because the hollow body acoustics are very uncomfortable for me. and i know all about dealing with cables and amps and have some spare ones handy (yes even a small guitar amp), so these things arent issues for me. And i dont plan on dedicating my life to guitar, so i just need something handy for the moment and the Squire that i tried out felt like it fit the need for me. Just was curious about for the kids, because we all know how fickle they can be sometimes... so passionate now and this time next year on to something else with the guitar collecting dust.

But im getting a whole lot of info that helps me determine the best approach. I'll be sure to give feedback on how things go as things progress. thanks.

[SanctifiedGuitar]

...Profound. Might i also add GIRLS. I do not teach girls how to play guitar cuz they like the idea but when they ask me "So what do i need to learn first" i say, "Well, the first step is to buy a guitar..."

At this point i start seeing glazed stares.

I feel you on that...

[jlynnb1]

At our church we don't play to the key of the recording nor of the lead singer. Most of the time it is the skill level of the weakest link.  We figure what the second guitar can play transpose to that key and/or capo if necessary to bring that key as close as possible to the praise leaders and the church's singing range.

I mention the church because of what I heard from a praise leader on a secular board. He theorized that Chris Tomlin canlt be praise leader at any local church because no church can sing as high as his natural singing range is. When we play a Tomlin tune we never match the record but we are prepared to play in two keys depending upon which of our singers will lead that week.

The opposite of Chris Tomlin would be Israel Houghton. It seems everything he does is in E. And he allows the low E to drone in the bass. Added to the modern CCM open  chord guitar method of playing rythmn guitar with the high E, And B being left open playing a New Breed song for the beginner or lower skilled praise team in many ways becomes an exercise in keeping time, not reaching for chord shapes.

i've never heard of that process for choosing what key to sing a song in...interesting. we always choose it according to the comfort level for the worship leaders/singers...and then the musicians have to adjust. even a beginner can get by as long as they have a capo...i'm just not getting it.

also, we rarely transposed tomlin's songs...he doesn't sing that high.

[Fenix]

also, we rarely transposed tomlin's songs...he doesn't sing that high.

Uhh, yes he does sing very high. There is this one song that the lyrics go "He will carry me..." and he hits those highs.

What we do in our church is we just sing an octave lower than he does. There is no man in our choir that can hit those highs that Tomlin does.

[gtrdave]

also, we rarely transposed tomlin's songs...he doesn't sing that high.

Uhh, yeah, he does for a guy. I'm a high tenor, like Israel Houghton or Tye Tribbet, and I can sing Chris's stuff in it's original keys, but my sopranos HATE ME when I do, so we normally lower his stuff anywhere from a half step to 1 and a half step.
I'm sure that the congregation appreciates the change, too.

[Fenix]

Uhh, yeah, he does for a guy. I'm a high tenor, like Israel Houghton or Tye Tribbet, and I can sing Chris's stuff in it's original keys, but my sopranos HATE ME when I do, so we normally lower his stuff anywhere from a half step to 1 and a half step.
I'm sure that the congregation appreciates the change, too.

Speaking of Tye, we are doing Son of Man for our concert but the dude who is singing the Tye part can't hit those highs so we have one of the Sopranos stepping in for the "You are..." parts.

I wish we could hire you for our concert if you can hit highs like Tye.

[jlynnb1]

i won't argue that it's high...we've just never had to change one of his songs. (i would...i always have to drop things about a whole step because i have a deep voice, i was speaking for our team)

[floaded27]

went to GC and bought a Squier guitar. Like the sound. decent for the money. Learned the G major chord. This is hard. lol. I have fat fingers so its difficult to get my fingers clean on the string without touching the others and the need to stretch to play bass i think makes it harder to get used to my fingers bunched together in one place.

Any tips going forward? I'd definitely appreciate the help.

[Fenix]

went to GC and bought a Squier guitar. Like the sound. decent for the money. Learned the G major chord. This is hard. lol. I have fat fingers so its difficult to get my fingers clean on the string without touching the others and the need to stretch to play bass i think makes it harder to get used to my fingers bunched together in one place.

Any tips going forward? I'd definitely appreciate the help.

Well i think its going to be more of a practice thing. As a bassist i can imagine that the neck of the guitar will feel very small and the fret space will be restrictive in comparism to the bass.

If this guy can do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YfvV1VoyG0&feature=related

...so can you.

[floaded27]

Well i think its going to be more of a practice thing. As a bassist i can imagine that the neck of the guitar will feel very small and the fret space will be restrictive in comparism to the bass.

If this guy can do it:
...so can you.

thanks. that helps