Topic: How long did it take you to learn scales? (Read 3232 times)

kodacolor · « **on:** January 31, 2009, 09:30:52 PM »

Hi. My friend just invited me to be in her group as a guitarist. I accepted. Today was our first rehearsal and I did horribly because:

1. The only scale (patterns) I know is the major and pentatonic scale

2. Even though I can play by ear it takes me a while to pick stuff up when playing full speed with a song I've never practiced before

3. I don't know my notes very well. (I know most of the notes on the 5th and 6th strings and major E,F,G,B,C,D,A,G on the first, second, and third string. Pathetic, I know)

4. I'm best at chords

So I'm thinking about leaving the group because they'll never get gigs with me on the team. Then again our first gig is in late April so maybe I can acquire enough skills to fake a good funk while I'm still learning. Idk. How long did it take you to learn scales? Also, I have issues improvising too so that's another issue.

I think I'm just going to quit. What do you think?

Fenix · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2009, 10:15:26 PM »

1) CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

I have been looking for a group to play with outside of church and still no luck.

Look, don't give up. These things take time. I only know the major, minor, harmonic and melodic minor scales and so far those are working fine for me.

Most importantly what i do is i listen and try and learn from other guitarists. I sit down with recordings and try and copy the lead player's lines and see how they apply to the song. You would be surprised at how much you can glean from learning from other players instead of spending hours upon end memorizing scales and you have no clue how to use 'em.

Plus let's be real, its NOT easy to pick stuff up when you are just hearing it the first time. You will need tons of experience to be able to do that.

I hope gtrdave and Jay and some other folks will give more insight into this though.

kodacolor · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2009, 10:21:16 PM »

Quote from: Fenix on January 31, 2009, 10:15:26 PM

Plus let's be real, its NOT easy to pick stuff up when you are just hearing it the first time. You will need tons of experience to be able to do that.

That's the other issue. I wasn't hearing the songs for the first time. I was playing them for the first time. It was "You Are Good" and some other song I know I know, but they played it differently so it threw me off...

I didn't practice either of these songs before hand because I was told there wasn't really a list of popular Gospel songs they do. $:-\$ I guess there was a last minute change and they decided to throw some popular Gospel songs in the mix.

Fenix · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2009, 10:28:41 PM »

Quote from: kodacolor on January 31, 2009, 10:21:16 PM

That's the other issue. I wasn't hearing the songs for the first time. I was playing them for the first time. It was "You Are Good" and some other song I know I know, but they played it differently so it threw me off...

I didn't practice either of these songs before hand because I was told there wasn't really a list of popular Gospel songs they do. $:-\$ I guess there was a last minute change and they decided to throw some popular Gospel songs in the mix.

Better tell 'em to teach you their style. if there is one thing i hate, its for me to practice a song and then come to church and the other musicians play it differently than waht i practiced. $:-\$

In any case just don't drop pout of the group. I had a very hard time when i first started playing guitar in church cuz i just wasn't sure what to do. Bit by bit i started getting it and finding my own space. You gotta keep practicing with them and find your own space.

I suck at explaining stuff via typing. Sorry.

melrhyne · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:20:24 PM »

Still learnin' scales, after twenty some odd years!!!

You know what you have to do. Work hard and sleep less

You know your major and pentatonic scales, which means in fact that you do know some minor stuff, because major keys and minor keys are related!

Eg. Amin7=CMaj6 They are enharmonic. They're named differently because of context, but spelled the same...

Not tryin' to confuse you, but whatever you do DON'T QUIT!!!

You think you're the weak link, become the strong link!

Out work everybody in the band. Learn some more chord shapes.

Keep working on your rhythm; solos last about 1minute, chords are being played all thru the song!

Don't get discouraged hearing better players, get encouraged.

Stick it out,a and really shed, you can do it

jlynnb1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:42:49 PM »

learn in fragments....don't try to learn a scale in 3-octaves acros the fret-board...take a few notes at a time and master them.

also, don't get modes confused with new scales....they are just modes of teh major scale. mixolydian = 5th mode of the major scale, which is to say it's the major scale starting on the 5th note of scale. so if you want to hear E myxolydian, play the a major scale from E to E and there you go. it's almost identical except for the b7 degree. You Are Good is essentially E Myxolydian with a little nod to E minor in chorus and bridge. play along with the song, using the A major scale, but trying to hear it using the E note as the root, you'll start to hear it.

gtrdave · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2009, 08:52:37 AM »

I started learning scales almost from day 1 and I'm still learning them 30 years later.

Fact is that I've only learned what I think I'll most likely use which includes the diatonic major and all 7 modes, pentatonic major and minor, blues, whole tone, diminished, harmonic minor, melodic minor, chromatic and a couple others that I used more back in the metal/fusion days (hungarian minor, enigmatic and a others I've probably forgotten).

To me, the key to learning scales is in two parts:
1. learn the sound of the scale by it's intervals. A diatonic major scale sounds like a diatonic major scale no matter if you play it in A or A# or Db or C and this is because the interval structure of the scale remains the same. This recognition comes from constant repetition and practice.
2. learn when to use a scale according to what chord or chords are being played. This requires an understanding of chord progressions and how each chord is derived from the notes in a scale. If you know the chord and you know what scale the chord came from (according to it's root/tonic) then you'll know what scale(s) will work over that chord.

Basically, in order for you to know what scales (in the form of melodies, leads, licks, riffs, etc) to play over a song, you MUST understand the chord structure of the song. If you don't know the chords, you won't know what scales to play, so, learn the chords first. Then you can break down the progression and know when to play what over which. Sure, it sounds like a whole lot of thinking, BUT it's made much easier the more you do it and it will become natural after a while, trust me.

jlynnb1 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2009, 10:59:53 AM »

Quote from: gtrdave on February 02, 2009, 08:52:37 AM

I started learning scales almost from day 1 and I'm still learning them 30 years later.
Fact is that I've only learned what I think I'll most likely use which includes the diatonic major and all 7 modes, pentatonic major and minor, blues, whole tone, diminished, harmonic minor, melodic minor, chromatic and a couple others that I used more back in the metal/fusion days (hungarian minor, enigmatic and a others I've probably forgotten).

To me, the key to learning scales is in two parts:
1. learn the sound of the scale by it's intervals. A diatonic major scale sounds like a diatonic major scale no matter if you play it in A or A# or Db or C and this is because the interval structure of the scale remains the same. This recognition comes from constant repetition and practice.
2. learn when to use a scale according to what chord or chords are being played. This requires an understanding of chord progressions and how each chord is derived from the notes in a scale. If you know the chord and you know what scale the chord came from (according to it's root/tonic) then you'll know what scale(s) will work over that chord.

Basically, in order for you to know what scales (in the form of melodies, leads, licks, riffs, etc) to play over a song, you MUST understand the chord structure of the song. If you don't know the chords, you won't know what scales to play, so, learn the chords first. Then you can break down the progression and know when to play what over which. Sure, it sounds like a whole lot of thinking, BUT it's made much easier the more you do it and it will become natural after a while, trust me.

HAAAAAAAAA.....I thought I was the only person who had ever taken the time to learn that scale, lol.

kodacolor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2009, 04:53:32 PM »

Good News: I just got guitar lessons and my teacher is awesome! He took the time to assess where I was instead of wasting time making me learn stuff I already knew. He said he was self taught before he took lessons so he knows how it is. ^_^ Along with the homework he gives me I'll do the stuff you guys mentioned

Bad News (and yes I'm about to dump my issue here): I have practice for that group I was telling you guys about...tomorrow. I'm soooo not ready. Everytime these people hear me it's always at my worst! They NEVER hear me at my best! They always hear me at my worse and it's so frustrating. On top of that I've had less than 24 hours to practice 3 songs, one has a guitar part, the other two don't, and I swear one goes through about 3 different keys!

But in any case, God is still good.

kodacolor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2009, 04:54:13 PM »

Woah! How did that happen?! I was using quick reply!

kodacolor · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2009, 04:55:35 PM »

OH!! I get it! I wrote "Issue[ s ]" and the [ s ] is the symbol for strike through. Lol!

Fenix · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2009, 01:28:41 AM »

Quote from: kodacolor on February 06, 2009, 04:53:32 PM

Good News: I just got guitar lessons and my teacher is awesome! He took the time to assess where I was instead of wasting time making me learn stuff I already knew. He said he was self taught before he took lessons so he knows how it is. ^_^ Along with the homework he gives me I'll do the stuff you guys mentioned

Bad News (and yes I'm about to dump my issue here): I have practice for that group I was telling you guys about...tomorrow. I'm soooo not ready. Everytime these people hear me it's always at my worst! They NEVER hear me at my best! They always hear me at my worse and it's so frustrating. On top of that I've had less than 24 hours to practice 3 songs, one has a guitar part, the other two don't, and I swear one goes through about 3 different keys!

But in any case, God is still good.

Congrats on the teacher. As soon as i can afford one, i will get one. I know i would have advanced much more than where i currently am if i had the discipline of a teacher.

As far as the other case, don't let it bother you. Just practice and don't tense up. Do not try and impress them. I made this mistake when i joined the church band. I was intimidated and tried too hard to impress them. After a while i was like forget this and took things slowly. Do what you know you can do well and don't worry about the rest.

kodacolor · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2009, 10:27:20 AM »

Quote from: Fenix on February 07, 2009, 01:28:41 AM

As far as the other case, don't let it bother you. Just practice and don't tense up. Do not try and impress them. I made this mistake when i joined the church band. I was intimidated and tried too hard to impress them. After a while i was like forget this and took things slowly. Do what you know you can do well and don't worry about the rest.

Thanks.

That's great advice!

UPDATE: Last night the leader of the band canceled rehearsal and set it up for next week. I can't make it next week cause I have to work. We only rehearse together once a month so I now have the rest of the month to learn these songs! God is good!

Fenix · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2009, 11:09:22 AM »

Quote from: kodacolor on February 07, 2009, 10:27:20 AM

Thanks. That's great advice!

UPDATE: Last night the leader of the band canceled rehearsal and set it up for next week. I can't make it next week cause I have to work. We only rehearse together once a month so I now have the rest of the month to learn these songs! God is good!

Thats what's up right there Koda-roni....and cheese.

I LOVE breaks like that. There was this time when we had to play Fred Hammond's "This is the day". It took me all week and by Friday i still hadn't gotten anywhere with it. You can imagine how much i was panicking when practice was about to start and the choir had gotten all their parts and everything and it was time for me to play.

The choir leader just decided last minute that we would not sing it.

**Phew**

kodacolor · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2009, 10:05:17 PM »

Quote from: Fenix on February 07, 2009, 11:09:22 AM

Thats what's up right there Koda-roni....and cheese.

Goof ball!

Quote from: Fenix on February 07, 2009, 11:09:22 AM

I LOVE breaks like that. There was this time when we had to play Fred Hammond's "This is the day". It took me all week and by Friday i still hadn't gotten anywhere with it. You can imagine how much i was panicking when practice was about to start and the choir had gotten all their parts and everything and it was time for me to play.

The choir leader just decided last minute that we would not sing it.

**Phew**

That's awesome!

Shadow_ · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2009, 12:04:38 PM »

Scales didnt take me long to master. Though i only use the popular ones. Major, Minor, Pentatonic(s), blues and a spanish one i used to use on keys. I have a background on the bass so its helped but that B string takes a little getting used to. I cant wait till i can play in a service in church. It'll happen. The relation of scales to chords isn't as easy as i thought. But in all, im enjoying the experience. A friend, in encouraging me, said that if i can get past 3months learning, then i'd be somewhere. Im nearly there.

Fenix · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2009, 03:15:33 PM »

Quote from: Shadow_ on February 08, 2009, 12:04:38 PM

Scales didnt take me long to master. Though i only use the popular ones. Major, Minor, Pentatonic(s), blues and a spanish one i used to use on keys. I have a background on the bass so its helped but that B string takes a little getting used to. I cant wait till i can play in a service in church. It'll happen.

Oh yeah, you bassists have that B string as the lowest/thickest string huh? I tried playing a 5-string bass once and could not comprehend why my chords were sounding off until the bassist told me that the lowest string was tuned to B no E.

O___o

kodacolor · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2009, 09:04:10 PM »

Quote from: Fenix on February 08, 2009, 03:15:33 PM

Oh yeah, you bassists have that B string as the lowest/thickest string huh? I tried playing a 5-string bass once and could not comprehend why my chords were sounding off until the bassist told me that the lowest string was tuned to B no E.

O___o

When the bassist at the church I attend lets me play his 5-string bass I avoid the 5th string, unless a absolutely have to use it...which is very rare

Shadow_ · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2009, 10:25:59 PM »

Quote from: Fenix on February 08, 2009, 03:15:33 PM

Oh yeah, you bassists have that B string as the lowest/thickest string huh? I tried playing a 5-string bass once and could not comprehend why my chords were sounding off until the bassist told me that the lowest string was tuned to B no E.

O___o

I actually meant the B string on the guitar. I know its not as awkward but it takes adjusting to the fact that all the strings aren't fourths apart. But I totally feel your view about the bass. I played a 4string too.

Fenix · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2009, 02:45:47 AM »

Quote from: Shadow_ on February 08, 2009, 10:25:59 PM

I actually meant the B string on the guitar. I know its not as awkward but it takes adjusting to the fact that all the strings aren't fourths apart. But I totally feel your view about the bass. I played a 4string too.

I know you meant the B string on the guitar. What i was saying was that as a former bassist, you are used to your B string being the thickest string.

Author Topic: How long did it take you to learn scales? (Read 3232 times)