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Author Topic: Interesting!!!!!  (Read 12016 times)

Offline kevmove02

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2010, 04:29:47 PM »
As we continue this saga, how many are being won to Christ because we keep telling each other how wrong we are. Not once have I heard anyone say the Gospel was not being preached, all I'm hearing is "I don't like your worship music". Seriously? Did the minister offend you that much? Is anyone here even a member of the church where he preaches? I'm even disappointed in myself, because I couldn't resist the urge to comment. ENOUGH ALREADY! Can we get back to talking about becoming better bass players? Please?

Offline 6stringapprentice

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2010, 04:33:01 PM »
Well I'm not condoning or condemning but if you bust out a known secular song by known secular artist, despite what the lyrics are, you are going to cause controversy. So my thought is why even go there. There are a plethora of "gospel" songs by gospel artist that convey the same message.
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churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2010, 05:32:22 PM »
As we continue this saga, how many are being won to Christ because we keep telling each other how wrong we are. Not once have I heard anyone say the Gospel was not being preached, all I'm hearing is "I don't like your worship music". Seriously? Did the minister offend you that much? Is anyone here even a member of the church where he preaches? I'm even disappointed in myself, because I couldn't resist the urge to comment. ENOUGH ALREADY! Can we get back to talking about becoming better bass players? Please?

LOL and that's kind of my thing (even though I did comment). Why can't we focus on the big picture which is souls being saved as long as it does not compromise the basic message of Christ?

Offline malthumb

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2010, 05:42:46 PM »
As we continue this saga, how many are being won to Christ because we keep telling each other how wrong we are. Not once have I heard anyone say the Gospel was not being preached, all I'm hearing is "I don't like your worship music". Seriously? Did the minister offend you that much? Is anyone here even a member of the church where he preaches? I'm even disappointed in myself, because I couldn't resist the urge to comment. ENOUGH ALREADY! Can we get back to talking about becoming better bass players? Please?

Because the OP asked the very specific question.....

Quote from: ddwilkins
How many would have played at this service?

I would have. 

And posted clips of the song selections for people to comment on.  I mean, really it ain't that crucial.  Some of us have answered that we would play and some have answered that we wouldn't.  Both gave reasons why or why not.  I think that the total sum of minds that have been changed by the raging debate is somewhere around "0".

At the end of the day we have a divergence of opinions with decent rationale for each perspective.  In that way, this thread mimics life.  I listen....I learn...I offer an opinion....I move on.

Peace,

James



FAITH unites people
RELIGION divides FAITH

Offline THE WOLFMAN

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2010, 08:09:00 PM »
HE is the pastor of THAT church. HE knows HIS people. HE knows HIS house. all we're looking at is a moment in time. We dont(okay, I dont) know nuffin about how the ministry impacts the lives of the locals, or what else happens in that assembly.

May not be right for your house, but your house aint his house.

Offline berbie

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2010, 10:31:24 PM »
In some cases, the philosophy of;  "if you don't have to do it, why do it" applies.  There are hundreds of ways to get a message across very well while remaining within the boundaries of acceptability for the majority of your people.  You can even bend the boundaries severely and still be within them.  You just have to think.  Since that is true, why go outside of them.  Let all in church have a pleasant and spiritual worship experience.  If you don't have to do otherwise, why do it?  When it is done, does it mean that the person has just "run out" and needs an eye opener? 

Most people have a worship mode, and a party mode.  The two just don't mix well. (even if the party mode is sitting in a restuarant with one you love, listening to beautiful music and wondering what the evening might bring)  You feel funny hearing that same music in church.

Offline phbrown

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2010, 10:50:35 PM »
I have no words, SMH, I really don't know what to say, I think he has a point it all depends on who you are singing to but still, some people are already on the fence and they would hear that and start listening to secular music just a little bit more until eventually you are listening to secular music 6 days out the week and gospel music for a half-hour before you go to church, so I guess it depends on where you are in your walk! Wow!

+1

I agree with you Bradley

Offline phbrown

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2010, 11:17:31 PM »
*attempting to stir the pot :D *
I just want to summarize the points being debated.

Topic I
A. Some people feel that if the music is praising God it does not matter where it came from. (if it came from a secular source)

B. Some people feel that if the music is praising God it does matter where it came from because of how the music may affect someone. (meaning a song that causes a person to not think about God but to think about something else normally something that is sinful)


Topic II
A. Some people feel that in the end it only matters if they can handle the temptation and if so it is okay

B. Some people feel that in the end you should watch out for your younger brother and sister in christ and make sure they are also able to handle the temptation. (younger meaning not as strong)


Topic III
A. Some people feel that Jesus made everything Right.

B. Some people feel that Jesus did not make everything Right but saved us from Sin.

Topic IV
A. Some people feel that as long as a soul is saved the method of saving that soul does not matter. (The end justify the means)

B. Some people feel that the method matters when it comes to saving a soul. (the end does not justify the means)

Did I miss any major topics?

churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2010, 12:48:46 AM »
*attempting to stir the pot :D *
I just want to summarize the points being debated.

Topic I
A. Some people feel that if the music is praising God it does not matter where it came from. (if it came from a secular source)

B. Some people feel that if the music is praising God it does matter where it came from because of how the music may affect someone. (meaning a song that causes a person to not think about God but to think about something else normally something that is sinful)


Topic II
A. Some people feel that in the end it only matters if they can handle the temptation and if so it is okay

B. Some people feel that in the end you should watch out for your younger brother and sister in christ and make sure they are also able to handle the temptation. (younger meaning not as strong)


Topic III
A. Some people feel that Jesus made everything Right.

B. Some people feel that Jesus did not make everything Right but saved us from Sin.

Topic IV
A. Some people feel that as long as a soul is saved the method of saving that soul does not matter. (The end justify the means)

B. Some people feel that the method matters when it comes to saving a soul. (the end does not justify the means)

Did I miss any major topics?

That's it for the most part.

Maybe Absolutes vs. Relativism......lol! What things are absolute when it comes to issue (if anything) and what issues are subjective or based on individual/groiup? That might fall in the other categories.

Offline sbyrd1978

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2010, 04:17:38 AM »
wow...this is a no win debate. Personal convictions will always make issues like this difficult to end in a unanimous agreement. I mean on a more serious note, the Apostle Paul and Barnabas had personal differences on whether John Mark should go on the 2nd missionary journey in Acts. There disagreement didn't determine their salvation. I believe and agree with others who commented that if it offends or causes other believers to fall then don't do it around them. If your not sure of the effects, just watch them and see. If its a whole congregation. I have no answer on how to handle it EVERY time. LOL.
As far as the music goes. The church has been singing secular melodies for centuries. We've just changed the words. There's a song we sing nowadays that goes "Amazing grace shall always be my song of praise..." which is the same song as "Oh Danny Boy..." but no one really argues about that one. Probably because they don't know the original secular song; which is understandable. There are also hymns that we sing out of the hymn book, some written by Martin Luther, a few hundred years ago that were not only secular songs but songs sung in taverns (place where folks got drunk) LOL. It doesn't bother us to sing those songs because we have nothing to associate the song with that would seem ungodly to us.
There is a measure of accountability for all of us but I don't believe this can be resolved by us voicing our personal convictions. Maybe we should look not only at the song but at the intent of the person singing the song. The only problem is that only God will know the true intent. If the intent is just and righteous then the use of the song could work for good.
After all, when I sing songs about forgiveness and grace and mercy I think about the wrong I've done as well. Let's help each other and love each other. I'm sure that an answer exists...I just don't know what it is. Blessings to all.

Offline fmason3

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2010, 11:53:55 AM »
As far as the music goes. The church has been singing secular melodies for centuries. We've just changed the words. There's a song we sing nowadays that goes "Amazing grace shall always be my song of praise..." which is the same song as "Oh Danny Boy..." but no one really argues about that one. Probably because they don't know the original secular song; which is understandable. There are also hymns that we sing out of the hymn book, some written by Martin Luther, a few hundred years ago that were not only secular songs but songs sung in taverns (place where folks got drunk) LOL. It doesn't bother us to sing those songs because we have nothing to associate the song with that would seem ungodly to us.

EXACTLY.  And that's where you have to be careful.  People are singing these love songs/ballads from the last few years.  I don't care how nice you make the words, if the music is something that originally learned as a secular song, I'm going straight back there.  Every time I hear "Lord" by Trinitee 5 7, my mind immediately goes back to 12th grade prom night.  It is our job as music ministers to be sensitive to that.  There are plenty of songs that were originally written to the glory of God (or are old enough where NO ONE knows the original secular source to be offended) where we don't have to remake wordly songs to appeal to carnal people so that they can "relate" to our service.  God never intended for us to bring people in by showing them the world inside the church.  We should them God's standard, they know they can't reach it in and of themselves, and we teach about Jesus and His grace as their means to attain God's high and holy standard. 

Offline under13

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2010, 08:46:04 PM »
EXACTLY.  And that's where you have to be careful.  People are singing these love songs/ballads from the last few years.  I don't care how nice you make the words, if the music is something that originally learned as a secular song, I'm going straight back there.  Every time I hear "Lord" by Trinitee 5 7, my mind immediately goes back to 12th grade prom night. It is our job as music ministers to be sensitive to that.  There are plenty of songs that were originally written to the glory of God (or are old enough where NO ONE knows the original secular source to be offended)

So what if a regular Gospel song took  your mind back to prom night or whatever event in your past, would you be offended?

Offline berbie

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2010, 10:08:16 PM »
fmason we are not in church to reminisce about prom night and that is the whole of the matter.

Offline ssabass

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2010, 10:22:57 PM »
Don't blame it on the song. A secular song should not make or break your salvation, I don't care where that song takes you back to. I listen to secular songs almost everyday, from the Stylistics To Van Halen(with Sammy Hagar), just had to point that out, lol. Don't get me wrong, some songs do take you back to your heathen days, but those are times you thank God, for how far you have come. But it wasn't the song, it was "YOU", the songs just helped in your foolishness. Every Thursday night I play in a restaurant/bar & my walk with Christ, is still intact. But there was a time when I went to places like that, I would use the place as my excuse to be a womanizer. Didn't drink or smoke, so my thing was women. I come to realize that it wasn't the place that took me there or the songs they played, it was just rotten old "ME". Cause I would turn around & do the same thing after Sunday morning service. Since I was singer I would take love songs, one particular song was "Chocolate Girl", by the Whispers & I would sing that song to every chocolate girl I came across, using it to draw them in. But yrs later at a family reunion, come to find out the song was about the song writers wife & children. The song writer(Wayne Bell), was my cousin by marriage, he had been married to my mothers neice. So sometimes we can take something innocent & use it in a wicked way.   

Offline phbrown

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2010, 01:28:16 AM »
... I wish I could play my bass like the bass player on Chocolate girl ... :(

Offline fmason3

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2010, 11:33:11 AM »
fmason we are not in church to reminisce about prom night and that is the whole of the matter.

I agree wholeheartedly.  That's why secular love songs have no place in a worship service.

Offline dhagler

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2010, 12:29:35 AM »
[Stirring the pot a little] We play "Reach Out And Touch Somebody's Hand" as a benediction song. Thoughts?

Offline malthumb

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2010, 04:55:02 AM »
[Stirring the pot a little] We play "Reach Out And Touch Somebody's Hand" as a benediction song. Thoughts?

It's always been meant to be an inspirational, if not religious, song.  Personally, I think these are appropriate if that's what the church wants to hear.  Others in this vein would be...
  • Let It Be
  • Lean On Me
  • What The World Needs Now (Is Love, Sweet Love)

I'm sure there are more...
FAITH unites people
RELIGION divides FAITH

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2010, 08:33:58 AM »
It's always been meant to be an inspirational, if not religious, song.  Personally, I think these are appropriate if that's what the church wants to hear.  Others in this vein would be...
  • Let It Be
  • Lean On Me
  • What The World Needs Now (Is Love, Sweet Love)

I'm sure there are more...


I'll have to agree while I would personally have a song with Jesus in the mix these songs are workable as they don't hint at sinning.
Somebody put me in the key of E#

churchyreal

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Re: Interesting!!!!!
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2010, 03:34:20 PM »
It's always been meant to be an inspirational, if not religious, song.  Personally, I think these are appropriate if that's what the church wants to hear.  Others in this vein would be...
  • Let It Be
  • Lean On Me
  • What The World Needs Now (Is Love, Sweet Love)

I'm sure there are more...


What about Caravan of Love?.....LOL!  ;D
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