Tone is all in hands??

[berbie]

The list is deceptive in nature because so many of the items are cleared when you buy a bass. Even if you didn't know it.  Whichever one you ended up with is capable of making good, fair or poor sounds and of having the same range of tones(bad to good) (if you bought a moderate to better bass).  Where you fall in that range is in your hands.  Set it up, adjust your moderate to better amp and have at it.  Because you are about to do a bigger thing to effect your tone than you will ever otherwise do. (practice, adjust and learn)  It seems to me that other changes would be in smaller increments of improvement.  I really believe that.  Experienced bassists, is that an erroneous belief?

[6stringapprentice]

I didn't make the list with deception in mind. I just made it to show that whether big or small each of components effect the tone of the instrument. Now of course most of the list will be wiped off when you buy a bass or a component of the bass, but there are people who get custom basses made that actually hand pick many off the components listed.

I do think technique and musicality should take priority over gear choice, but I do think the two kind of go hand in hand.

[jonesl78]

The basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because that's like saying a bass player playing the bass line with a ukelele. Top gear doesn't mean optimum level.

My bad, I was thinking faster than I was typing. I meant to say basketball shoes that feel like you are wearing church shoes. Nevertheless, I did not say top gear equals optimum level. However, I dont think talent alone is enough to reach one's optimum level. I was amazed when my bass player played a toy guitar and ripped it to shreds! As good as he was, it still sounded like toy.

[floaded27]

The basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because that's like saying a bass player playing the bass line with a ukelele. Top gear doesn't mean optimum level.

u mean the basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because if u ever played for a hot service, u know what crazy stuff people can do in church shoes. lol

[dhagler]

I actually prefer a golf vs. bass analogy: two different golfers can play the same course with the same set of clubs and use the same ball but have decidedly different results. To me, that's the equivalent of tonal differences attibutable to style of play, use of hands, etc.

When I play golf I am competing against the course, using the equipment I have to the best of my ability. And it's the same way when I play bass: I am trying to play my part in that song, using the equipment I have to the best of my ability.

I am not interested in entering a long driving contest, or side wagers on each hole. Nor do I have to have the latest Nike driver because so-and-so has one. I just want to play well and have fun. The same is true for playing bass. I just want to play well and have fun, and contribute to the ministry, or the group, that I am involved in.

Again, that's just me.

[ssabass]

If tone was all in the hands, then Marcus would not have changed his electronics & his bridge. Someone said they have heard Fitzgerald play many different basses & he still sounds like Fitzgerald. Well of course he still sounds like Fitzgerald, because his style didn't change, but his tone changed. I've have seen/heard Fitzgerald play Tobias, Fender, Lakland, Warwick, Performance basses & he still sounds the same, but he has had 5 different tones. I just watched a video of Gouche talking about the MTD Jazz basses & he actually said that he didn't like it's tone, until he played it in the right setting(Gouche if you're are reading this, did I get it right), same hands different bass. So that tells me that certain tones good or bad, may or may not, sound good in certain musical situations. So hands, electronics, woods, amplification, cabinets, strings etc., all have an impact on your tone. Your tone has to already be there, prior to you even touching the bass, then your technique will bring out,whats already there. There is no way that Mario Franchitti could have won the Indianapolis 500 in my 2002 Toyota Camry 4cyl. But the car that he won it with was equippied with what he needed to win,  prior to him even touching the car. He just had to use his skill & certain techniques to bring out the best, that his car already had to offer. But ultimately it comes down to preference. What sound good to one may stink to another. I'm not a fan of the Ken Smith's slap tone, I love the finger tone. But some cats think it's the best tone ever. I would love to have one for certain muscial situations, but for my main bass, naaaw.

[pedulla1]

John Patitucci changed from Smith bass to Yamaha. If you listen you could tell his tone changed. I think his bass sounds colder and not as warm as the Smith bass.

[kevmove02]

This is what Marcus said:

"Tanya:  What would you advise young players to listen to?

 Marcus:   Everything!  And don't listen to people who try to tell you what you should be doing.  Anything that catches your ear, learn how to play it on your instrument.  And for bassists, man, I tell them to stop trippin' on the bass!   Every time you pick up one of those magazines they talk about The Instrument, know what I mean?  That's just like the vehicle, that's like singers walking around talking about their throat!  Get off it man.  Play music! Find a bass that sounds good and play it!  People ask about the strings, the neck, the pickups and the amp.  Get an amp that's loud enough so that you can hear it, and make some music!  Put yourself in as many different situations as you can, and all of a sudden all those questions you have will get answered on their own ? how often should  ou change your strings, what should you practice?  Practice whatever you can't play!  And play anything that catches your ear.  Not just bass lines, if you hear a nice melody, a sax line, figure out how to play it, and stop trippin' on whether you should be able to solo or groove.  That's the other thing I hear all the time.  You never hear any piano player get asked that.  You gotta solo and you gotta groove.   They're both part of music.  You gotta do both!"

[JLT]

Kev - I that is the most liberating thing I have read or heard regarding music and gear. From what interview/magazine did you get that from?

[kevmove02]

It is an excerpt from a now defunct magazine, "Bassist" published in 1998. I have a more recently article published in Bass Player magazine, where Marcus reemphasizes the idea of "choosing an instrument for life" so you can focus on making music, not designing instruments. In response to the inevitable rebuttal, keep in mind that musicians get paid to endorse instruments, so you have to pay attention to what you see them playing the most, or in Marcus' case, he plainly says "I have played my main bass for over 20 years. Every musician should find that one instrument that suits them and play it for the rest of their lives." I'm not saying I will never buy another bass, but it will be awhile before I try to bring another "lady" into the house.

[ssabass]

Thats what I like about cats like Marcus, Gouche, East. They have been playing that same basses for yrs. Marcus said in one interview, that he knows everything about that bass, dead spots, good spots, bad spots etc. I heard a song this morning at work & automatically, not really even hearing the song that well, cause the person had it turned down low. But, I heard that tone & knew it was Marcus. Never even heard the song before. But Marcus's signature tone didn't come until, he changed that preamp.

[floaded27]

it takes many of us a while to find that "bass for life", whether it be cost (i bet a Marcus Miller didnt cost Marcus Miller what a Marcus Miller costs now.....say that 5 times fast), changes/improvements in technique, tonal preferences (cause its not ALL in the hands), as well as stuff happens (bass gets damaged, stolen, traded and ran away with, etc), or being preoccupied with other instruments (keys, drums, even singing)

[ssabass]

Yeah floaded27, Marcus said his bass cost his mother around $280.00. This was after the first two she bought for him, got stolen.

[kevmove02]

In Bass Player Presents... Session Legends and Studio Gear, Marcus Miller made some extensive remarks on tone. He reiterated that bassist today place way too much emphasis on the technology and not enough on technique.

[ssabass]

Yeah he might have said that. But thats very easy to say, now that he has one of the best tones in the business. He obviously wasn't saying that when Roger Sadowsky recommended he change his preamp to Bartolini & get a badass bridge.

[kevmove02]

Yeah, that's what makes Marcus Miller one of the most sought after bassist in the world, the preamp and strings. Just the other the day, I was reading the liner notes of project and it read Bass made by Roger Sadowsky, Saxaphone made by Keilwerth and Piano made by Steinway. Oddly, there was no mention of the musicians or singers, just the instruments

[ssabass]

It's actually a mixture of both. Yeah, Marcus gets called for his ability to lay down an infectious groove. But if you listen to alot of the stuff Marcus plays on, 90% of it he slaps. Even on slow songs, cause the  tone of his bass is just beautiful, thats what they want. His groove & that tone together, just can't be matched.

[Fenix]

Guitar player here.

Anyways I always viewed "tone" as the sound your instrument makes due to factors such as string type, pick-up type, amp type, and other such physical factors. Heck there will be no difference in "tone" between Jonathan Dubose and I if we both played an open E using the same instrument with the same settings. The only difference between us is our technique and knowledge of music and the fretboard.

[berbie]

Fenix, I get a different tone when I change from thumb to fingers.  I get a different tone when I adjust the way I strike the string with my finger.  You can adjust the tone of any bass with the controls(amp and guitar) but on the bottom line, it is in the hands. (Often tone is deemed to describe nuances as well as sound) Almost anyone can adjust any amp and any bass to improve the sound.  It doesn't take musical skill so to speak. Afer you have done that, it sounds like it sounds.  Then rest is according to who is playing the bass.  By  the way, ltns.  How is it going?

[dhagler]

There is a latin phrase, ceteris parabus, which means "all other things being equal". And that's what keeps coming to mind as I read this thread. Everything being discussed is a matter of comparison, whether it's comparing two bass players, or two sets of pickups, or two sets of strings, or two amps, or two cabs, or two sets of settings for the same cabs. And there's the rub: the differences between any two tones is rarely, if ever, going to be boiled down to "everything about the two was exactly the same except for ___________ ". Add to that what we hear on a record, or in a live setting, has been augmented by other technological factors (most of which we don't have access to).

Plug in and play. Your tone is you. It doesn't matter where it comes from. . I wager that Marcus and Gouche worry about their respective tones far less than we do.