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Author Topic: The LGM CCM Song Thread  (Read 55722 times)

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #160 on: December 22, 2014, 10:23:16 AM »
For all of the fond memories, there have been critics of CCM as well.  What do you think about this?

CCM - The Ultimate Gateway Drug (it's about an hour long)
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Offline SketchMan3

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #161 on: December 22, 2014, 12:46:14 PM »
A logical argument.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #162 on: December 22, 2014, 07:09:30 PM »
Summary please?  Did you really think folks were gonna watch an hour long video? LOL...

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #163 on: December 23, 2014, 07:19:21 AM »
I have received a revelation that a "summary" of the previously mentioned video.  Thus, I shall provide unto thee the following:

*CCM failed to deliver "revival"
*CCM would draw sinners in and trick them into hearing the gospel - but God does not work through subterfuge.
*The gospel is an offense and sinners should not be made to feel comfortable in church.  Therefore, using things of the world (music in this case) as an evangelical tool is the wrong approach.
*CCM is/was a cheap imitation of the real deal being offered by so-called secular artists.
*Art does not have to be "sanctified" just to make it about God - everything does not have to be about God.  Bringing the secular into the church and trying to use it to worship God is wrong.

These points and others are presented in this video for your consideration.  Although I don't necessarily agree with all that he has to say, I think he does make some valid points.  Among them are that our worship to God should be different - set aside for Him....not recycled form the things that we may enjoy from the secular.  The author says (and I agree) that it is not a sin to listen to secular music, but being a Christian, there would be certain things that you would  or should chose not to listen to.  In short, the whole industrialization of "Christian" music is by and large a marketing ploy for record companies to squeeze out a few extra dollars from a niche' market.  Hmmm.....is he maybe over reacting a bit or could he be dead on?  One thing that I disagree on is the implication that listening to any CCM is some how sinful.    Discuss?

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Offline gtrdave

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #164 on: December 23, 2014, 11:06:29 AM »
I have to watch the video (and I will) but I do agree with the points made somewhat. That said, if the points you mentioned, funkStrat, were verbatim of what is said in the video, they are way off base in their characterizations and expectations of CCM.
But I'll have to watch the movie first to respond correctly.
I'll have time after Christmas...  ;D
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #165 on: December 23, 2014, 09:44:31 PM »
Okay, I watched a bit of it and then skipped through the rest of it and I think I just wasted about 15 minutes of my life.
At least I got to enjoy some ice cream while viewing it...
Music theory is not always music reality.

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #166 on: December 24, 2014, 08:44:10 AM »
Okay, I watched a bit of it and then skipped through the rest of it and I think I just wasted about 15 minutes of my life.
At least I got to enjoy some ice cream while viewing it...

Ice cream:  the great redeemer of lost time :-) ....what flavor?  What did you think of the video clips (if you got to see them) he presented?
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #167 on: December 24, 2014, 09:24:56 AM »
Ice cream:  the great redeemer of lost time :-) ....what flavor?  What did you think of the video clips (if you got to see them) he presented?

Breyer's chocolate peppermint.

As far as the video clips, I saw only a few of them (the kids ones and some of the rap clips), but I was really turned off by his KJV-only position. He's one of "those guys" who believes that the only true interpretation of the Bible, originally written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, is the English version commissioned by deceased British royals who interjected their own bias in order to conform to the Church of England's beliefs at that time.
So, based on that fact alone, I (much like he did in his lengthy monologue) threw out the baby with the bath water regarding everything he had to say.
Music theory is not always music reality.

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #168 on: December 30, 2014, 03:01:19 PM »
I didn't even know CCM was secular or based on secular music... so that shows you the extent of my knowledge on the subject.  Got me wondering if I even know what CCM is, I just call all white contemporary christian music (lol) by that name.  Anyway, I like the message of a lot of the songs, and it clearly expresses the gospel or love for God or faith in God... now there's some artists/songs that feel more like just regular old country music, lol.  I think they only pop up in the mix because the artist is a professing christian, and has some other songs that more clearly express that, or because they've been stuck on an album that is mostly christian songs.  I don't care for that, because I listen to the christian/gospel stations for a reason, and it's not to hear some dude sing about his family.  That's nice and all, just not what I came for, lol.

Offline Mysteryman

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #169 on: December 30, 2014, 03:41:02 PM »
I didn't even know CCM was secular or based on secular music... so that shows you the extent of my knowledge on the subject.  Got me wondering if I even know what CCM is, I just call all white contemporary christian music (lol) by that name.  Anyway, I like the message of a lot of the songs, and it clearly expresses the gospel or love for God or faith in God... now there's some artists/songs that feel more like just regular old country music, lol.  I think they only pop up in the mix because the artist is a professing christian, and has some other songs that more clearly express that, or because they've been stuck on an album that is mostly christian songs.  I don't care for that, because I listen to the christian/gospel stations for a reason, and it's not to hear some dude sing about his family.  That's nice and all, just not what I came for, lol.
He sings about his girl too.  :D
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2014, 05:23:01 PM »

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2014, 05:31:08 PM »
I didn't even know CCM was secular or based on secular music... so that shows you the extent of my knowledge on the subject.  Got me wondering if I even know what CCM is, I just call all white contemporary christian music (lol) by that name.  Anyway, I like the message of a lot of the songs, and it clearly expresses the gospel or love for God or faith in God... now there's some artists/songs that feel more like just regular old country music, lol.  I think they only pop up in the mix because the artist is a professing christian, and has some other songs that more clearly express that, or because they've been stuck on an album that is mostly christian songs.  I don't care for that, because I listen to the christian/gospel stations for a reason, and it's not to hear some dude sing about his family.  That's nice and all, just not what I came for, lol.

Well even in urban contemporary gospel music (urban as in 'black folks music'), a lot of if is based on current secular trends.....until somebody gets all excited and starts shouting in the Spirit  :).  But the idea behind CCM was to take current popular and rock genres and apply them to Christian or inspirational themed lyrics. 

What became CCM started as Jesus Music and was brought to you by the hippie generation.  This early form contemporized Christian music had struggled for a while to be accepted by mainstream churches.  The early musicians in this movement often had to face many obstacles and personal challenges to perform (minister) Jesus rock.  As time went on, it not only gained acceptance, but was a financial success too.  This sub-genre was then changed from being called Jesus Music to CCM and at one point was even outselling certain secular genres such as country and jazz.  CCM not only embraced rock and pop, but there was the incorporation of Latin, hip-hop and even some gospel.  Therefore, CCM really isn't specific style of music, but an umbrella/marketing term used for any form of Christian music that is based on contemporary pop sounds as opposed to traditional hymns or southern gospel (think quartets here).  During its height, CCM had a lot to celebrate and was riding high with the economic prosperity of the country.  But there was criticism to be had as well including some artists who had fallen into the snare os sin.  You had people like Amy Grant, Sandi Patti, and Michael English are some of the better known of CCM "royalty" who have fallen from the good graces of their fans and Christian radio (Grant seems to have bounced back though).  A more serious, legal situation occurred with Ja'Mark Davis - founder of the urban/hip-hop group RAZE was convicted of sexual related crimes involving minors.  As time went on and people grew up, CCM sort of evolved (or some would even say devolved) into praise & worship.  There is still a CCM market, but it's not what it once was and some of the headliners form its heyday have been forgotten ore abandoned.  In fact, a few years ago when Steven Curtis Chapman lost one of his daughters, people were struggling to recall his name....and he's still putting out hits today.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2014, 05:38:39 PM »
Ah... I see... I think... That's all much ado about nothing in my opinion.  I like what I like, and I like to hear the message in the music, if that's gone, I'm out too.  I'm not too much for mixing secular song tracks and changing lyrics and whatnot, but since I don't really listen to secular music, I'm sure it's done on some songs I really like and I just don't recognize it.  In the end, God knows my heart, I'm not going to try to find fault in the music... there's enough fault without looking far, LOL!

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #173 on: January 02, 2015, 04:12:59 PM »
I do want to also point out that one of the biggest problems among Christian music artists is the fact that a lot of people don't know who they are.  In some ways, the CCM industry seems like a "pretend" music industry while the real musicians are out there in the mainstream or secular industry.  I hinted at this before, but even the "well known" artists are comparatively unknown.  Makes me wonder how these guys and gals make a living!  I understand the whole "it's about Jesus" thing, but at the same time, if you are going to make a living in music you simply must sell something.  And people wont buy it unless they want it.  You don't go on tour by faith alone - you need some cold hard $$$.  Even in the general music market (or the arts in general), it's not a super lucrative profession and with the advancement in technology (including our good old friend YouTube), it's easy to listen to music without having to purchase it. 

Being that the Christian music market is a very small "ghetto" if you will, I (yes I'm saying this) wouldn't recommend that someone with aspirations to be a professional musician to go into Christian music (at least not initially) OR unless the Lord God himself has given you a specific calling.  But besides that, the industry itself is just that.  It's an industry, a business, and the machine is not really concerned about how "Christian" the product necessarily is - just as long as there is a positive cash flow.  Interestingly, I think that gospel music fares a little better because it has strong roots in the church.  Even people who don't go to church or profess to be Christians can somehow relate to gospel music if for no other reason than "it's a black thing".
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Offline Mysteryman

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #174 on: January 02, 2015, 06:01:03 PM »
I would think that CCM artists make money from CDs, gigs, personal sales, salaried church. I would think it would be at least $50,000 a year for a single artist if not more. A lot of stuff can be itemized on their taxes.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #175 on: January 03, 2015, 09:12:03 AM »
But the idea behind CCM was to take current popular and rock genres and apply them to Christian or inspirational themed lyrics. 

There has always been a "Christian" alternative to whatever music style is popular, from '50s rock and roll to hillbilly bluegrass to baroque and classical music. It's not like CCM was some new idea when it started in the early '70s. What was different for CCM, though, that the previous offerings didn't have much of was marketing and an audience of consumers who could take the music with them wherever they go. The 8-track and cassette and CD and now mp3 make CCM as accessible as any other form of pop music.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #176 on: January 05, 2015, 10:11:15 AM »
FS, I think they do okay... I mean they may be unknown in secular music (except at Christmas, lol), but the christian market is pretty big, big enough to sell advertisers on supporting their own radio stations...concerts sell out in large markets.  I think they do ok.  I'm surprised black gospel artists do well, because I think they are a smaller subset... or were... now I run into people of all races who enjoy gospel.

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: The LGM CCM Song Thread
« Reply #177 on: January 05, 2015, 12:14:21 PM »
FS, I think they do okay... I mean they may be unknown in secular music (except at Christmas, lol), but the christian market is pretty big, big enough to sell advertisers on supporting their own radio stations...concerts sell out in large markets.  I think they do ok.  I'm surprised black gospel artists do well, because I think they are a smaller subset... or were... now I run into people of all races who enjoy gospel.

There was a survey conducted a few years ago by (I believe) the Christian Music Trade Association.  The results of the survey indicated that CCM artists had a low recognition factor.......among people who claimed to be Christians!  I think that by and large, people are looking for some form of a "worship experience" (man, I hate that term) or some form of being ministered to rather than a new band or singer to follow.  Overall, the entire music industry has changed and I think that because the Gospel music market is relatively small, these changes are having a bigger impact on our artists.  I guess black gospel fares a little better because the music is part of the culture.  But bear in mind that changes in Christian music are not isolated events.

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Offline funkStrat_97

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I Do Not Belonw to Christian Hip-Hop
« Reply #178 on: January 19, 2015, 04:40:33 PM »
Christian artist SPZRKT expands his musical misson by breaking away from the Christian music market.  I've never heard of him before, but do yo think that the church has held back artists and musicisians by effectively making it mandatory that their art be made into some form of ministry?
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Offline jonesl78

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Re: I Do Not Belonw to Christian Hip-Hop
« Reply #179 on: January 19, 2015, 08:30:28 PM »
Christian artist SPZRKT expands his musical misson by breaking away from the Christian music market.  I've never heard of him before, but do yo think that the church has held back artists and musicisians by effectively making it mandatory that their art be made into some form of ministry?


I read the article and the letter. I'm not familiar with this particular artist, but based on the limited information, I have no problem with him sharing his gift with anyone The healed do not need a doctor. Also, I think whatever gift you receive from God should be used for ministry.
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