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Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 28, 2007, 04:45:29 PM

Title: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 28, 2007, 04:45:29 PM
I've have the pleasure of being from the "Ole School" and able to play "New School".  I just want to admonish my fellow younger musicians, to learn hymns.  If you don't know any, search out an "Ole School" musician and get some instruction.  Hymns and anthems are apart of our culture.  It's just sad that many gifted young musicians just don't know our African-American, Gospel history.  Does anyone have a response to this important topic.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: SoundofJoy on May 28, 2007, 09:17:01 PM
I agree totally. That's why I devote much of my site to learning the hymns and spirituals. I've have found that you learn your chords better following a known standard melody than alot of these newer songs.

www.samsmuzikco.com
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: dcrosby on May 28, 2007, 09:40:00 PM
I definitely understand where you are coming from. I have been exposed to the hymns and traditional gospel however as far as playing, I have a "new school" mentality. On top of that, I was never schooled by any "ole school" kats. Therefore I think it's safe to say that these young guys are getting away from the hymns and traditionals because they were not schooled about them. "They don't know what they don't know."  So who do we blame the young guys for getting away from the "ole school" or the older musicians for not taking the young guys under their wings. I am guilty of getting away, but I'm forcing myself to go back because I want to be able to reach every age group of my church congregation. Also I just want to be an all around musician who can do it all.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 28, 2007, 09:52:35 PM
Isn't this same post going on in the organ room? ?/?
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 28, 2007, 11:16:22 PM
Isn't this same post going on in the organ room? ?/?
Yes, I did post in the organ room. I thought the topic was good for all keyboard players.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 28, 2007, 11:19:23 PM
I agree totally. That's why I devote much of my site to learning the hymns and spirituals. I've have found that you learn your chords better following a known standard melody than alot of these newer songs.

www.samsmuzikco.com
That's a good thing that you are doing.  I'm definitely going to check out your site.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 28, 2007, 11:23:55 PM
I definitely understand where you are coming from. I have been exposed to the hymns and traditional gospel however as far as playing, I have a "new school" mentality. On top of that, I was never schooled by any "ole school" kats. Therefore I think it's safe to say that these young guys are getting away from the hymns and traditionals because they were not schooled about them. "They don't know what they don't know."  So who do we blame the young guys for getting away from the "ole school" or the older musicians for not taking the young guys under their wings. I am guilty of getting away, but I'm forcing myself to go back because I want to be able to reach every age group of my church congregation. Also I just want to be an all around musician who can do it all.

I know what you're saying. It's kind of a rock in a hard place.  At least twice a month I host a Musicans Shed at my church.  I let the jam for a few hours, then I get on the organ and just start playing hymns.  I notice that the musicians are really drawn the that form of religious music and are very interested in it.  So yes you need to pass it on.  Yes, like you, I try to be an all-around musician.  I totally agree, we can't be stuck in a box, we are musicians.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: T-Block on May 29, 2007, 06:39:03 AM
Honestly, I think hymns are only important if your church sings them.  If your church don't sing them, then there really isn't a dire need to learn them.

I'm not trying to downgrade the importance of them, I'm just saying that you should focus on trying to learn the stuff that your church sings #1.  Then, to be an all around musician, it's good to dabble in other styles.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 08:13:57 AM
I truly understand what you're saying.  The church I attend now very rarely sing hymns; but I've been to too many concerts and services, where a singer gets up and sings a hymn, he or she could be young or old; and the musician is clueless and then embarassed.  Then another musician has to slide him, or her off.  I've had to do that many times.  A perfect example is, my group had to sing at anniversary of James Hall and Citadel.  A group got up and sang, "Jesus, There is Something About That Name".  A young man was on the organ fumbling with the song, even after they group told him the key.  James Hall moved him over so fast it was so embarassing.  I felt so bad for that young man.  Now mind you, before all that happened he was on the organ playing these hot chords and changes. 

I'm just saying we as musicians should never be caught out there like that.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 08:33:37 AM
I truly understand what you're saying.  The church I attend now very rarely sing hymns; but I've been to too many concerts and services, where a singer gets up and sings a hymn, he or she could be young or old; and the musician is clueless and then embarassed.  Then another musician has to slide him, or her off.  I've had to do that many times.  A perfect example is, my group had to sing at anniversary of James Hall and Citadel.  A group got up and sang, "Jesus, There is Something About That Name".  A young man was on the organ fumbling with the song, even after they group told him the key.  James Hall moved him over so fast it was so embarassing.  I felt so bad for that young man.  Now mind you, before all that happened he was on the organ playing these hot chords and changes. 

I'm just saying we as musicians should never be caught out there like that.

If we're speaking in strictly a musical sense, then I agree completely. I agree, for the most part, in the other sense, as well, mind you. ;) For a musician to be able to play complex chords, but not be able to play simple chords makes NO sense at all. :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 08:37:31 AM
Amen!! my brother.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 29, 2007, 08:41:10 AM
I know what you're saying. It's kind of a rock in a hard place.  At least twice a month I host a Musicans Shed at my church.  I let the jam for a few hours, then I get on the organ and just start playing hymns.  I notice that the musicians are really drawn the that form of religious music and are very interested in it.  So yes you need to pass it on.  Yes, like you, I try to be an all-around musician.  I totally agree, we can't be stuck in a box, we are musicians.

Hey where's your shed? I've been tryin to find a shed in the NY area. (i MIGHT goto jersey....)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: T-Block on May 29, 2007, 08:54:04 AM
For a musician to be able to play complex chords, but not be able to play simple chords makes NO sense at all. :-\

Big CO-SIGN!!!

On a side note, I don't think a musician should feel bad if they can't play a particular song.  What they should feel embarrased about is trying to play when they know they can't.  If you know deep down u can't play a song, don't even get up there messing up.

I don't feel embarrased at all if I can't play a song being sung.  I'll happily slide off and let someone else take over.  But, I ain't gonna fumble through just because people yelling at me to play.  Sing acapella doggit!!! :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 09:08:33 AM
Big CO-SIGN!!!

On a side note, I don't think a musician should feel bad if they can't play a particular song.  What they should feel embarrased about is trying to play when they know they can't.  If you know deep down u can't play a song, don't even get up there messing up.

I don't feel embarrased at all if I can't play a song being sung.  I'll happily slide off and let someone else take over.  But, I ain't gonna fumble through just because people yelling at me to play.  Sing acapella doggit!!! :D


Some musicians aren't that mature, yet; unfortunately. :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Rjthakid on May 29, 2007, 09:21:45 AM

Some musicians aren't that mature, yet; unfortunately. :-\

For real.  Cats act like playing the instrument is their BIRTHRIGHT or something.   ::)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 09:23:12 AM
For real.  Cats act like playing the instrument is their BIRTHRIGHT or something.   ::)

Truth; unfotunately, but truth nonetheless. :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 09:38:08 AM
Ya'll talkin some truth up-in-here.  The old saying is "Humble is the Way".

Our shed is held at Revival Temple Center of Deliverance, 81-85 16th Ave., Newark, NJ, tomorrow at 9pm-until.  You're more than welcome.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: dcrosby on May 29, 2007, 11:27:04 AM
I don't know about yall but playing something I've never heard is a weak spot for me and it's something I'm trying to get better at. The only way that I see I can get better at this skill is if I'm thrown in the fire and actually try it on the spot. It doesn't help any musician if someone is in such a hurry to embarass another by shoving them off the keys.  That would be a great time to teach whether it's a hymn or something else. "Each one teach one." Everyone will benefit like that.

What is a shed? I've never heard it before and maybe it's something we need to start down here in VA.

Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 11:32:37 AM
I don't know about yall but playing something I've never heard is a weak spot for me and it's something I'm trying to get better at. The only way that I see I can get better at this skill is if I'm thrown in the fire and actually try it on the spot. It doesn't help any musician if someone is in such a hurry to embarass another by shoving them off the keys.  That would be a great time to teach whether it's a hymn or something else. "Each one teach one." Everyone will benefit like that.

What is a shed? I've never heard it before and maybe it's something we need to start down here in VA.


So, are you saying that using a rehearsal would be a bad time to show someone a new song?  ?/? :-\

You have to be thrown in the fire?  ?/? :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: dcrosby on May 29, 2007, 11:38:20 AM
No I'm talking in an actual service situation. If someone starts singing something that the musician doesn't know and is trying to figure out, instead of some other musician coming to boot them off, why not come to help and show them. In what other way will they learn and keep their dignity?
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 11:43:57 AM
No I'm talking in an actual service situation. If someone starts singing something that the musician doesn't know and is trying to figure out, instead of some other musician coming to boot them off, why not come to help and show them. In what other way will they learn and keep their dignity?


I have a problem with that. Service is NOT the time for trying to figure out songs that are supposed to minister to God's people, IMHO. That's what rehearsals are for.

If musicians would spend more time in the 'woodshed' (meaning practicing) during rehearsals, then there'd be no need to boot someone off of an instrument.

I, for one, am NOT ministered to when folks are fumblin' with some song. The last thing I need to hear or see is someone trying to sing, 'Great is Thy faithfulness' and the musician or the singer is messin' it up; cause as a person who loves music, my whole mindset is going to be, "Why didn't they practice?" :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: dcrosby on May 29, 2007, 11:47:25 AM
what do you mean by "woodshed?"
If that is the case how is a young musician supposed to grow? Experience is the best teacher.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Rjthakid on May 29, 2007, 11:59:14 AM
what do you mean by "woodshed?"
If that is the case how is a young musician supposed to grow? Experience is the best teacher.

I agree that picking up songs on the spot is vital to learning how to play by ear.

I agree that Live Experience is more important that many people know/understand.

I DON'T agree that it's right to let someone EMBARASS him/herself by attempting to play a song they just don't know.  It's not ABOUT the musician.  It's about the LORD. 

Also, what about the poor soloist who has to endure this?  Is it fair to him/her to allow this person to RUIN their solo?

The focus of this thread is HYMNS.  If you've been playing for 2 years and you can't play "His Eye is on the Sparrow" or "What a friend we have in Jesus", do NOT pass Go, and do NOT collect $200.  Go sit on the naughty step and have a coke and a smile. 

Put that Tye CD and that Israel CD in the closet! 

Go back and get them after you've learned the basics.

 :P
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 12:07:31 PM
It's not ABOUT the musician.  It's about the LORD.
 :P

And, a BIG COSIGN to you, sir. :D :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 12:12:47 PM
A woodshed is when musicians come together and have jam sessions but in the middle of those jam sessions there is instruction and learning.  Check out YouTube and look under Newark Gospel Sheds, there are clips of the sheds that go on at my church.  A couple of them are showing my brother-in-law giving a bass clinic.

Getting back to the subject, we all have to keep our minds fresh with the old and new, because in these days the worship service or a concert, could involve, worship, praise, traditional, urban, hymns, etc.  We just have to try our best to be prepared.  But you know, what?  Some of these soloists should stop singing songs that they know are not really familiar, especially when they are a guest and their musician is not with them!  What do you think about that??  ?/? :-\ ::)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 12:16:36 PM
A woodshed is when musicians come together and have jam sessions but in the middle of those jam sessions there is instruction and learning.  Check out YouTube and look under Newark Gospel Sheds, there are clips of the sheds that go on at my church.  A couple of them are showing my brother-in-law giving a bass clinic.

Getting back to the subject, we all have to keep our minds fresh with the old and new, because in these days the worship service or a concert, could involve, worship, praise, traditional, urban, hymns, etc.  We just have to try our best to be prepared.  But you know, what?  Some of these soloists should stop singing songs that they know are not really familiar, especially when they are a guest and their musician is not with them!  What do you think about that??  ?/? :-\ ::)


I've been waiting for the singer vs keyboardist debate to get under way. :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 12:20:47 PM
LOLOLOL!! It was bound to happen.  ;D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: dcrosby on May 29, 2007, 12:27:55 PM
Amen to that. Or if they do sing a song, pick one key and stay in it.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Rjthakid on May 29, 2007, 12:35:22 PM
Some of these soloists should stop singing songs that they know are not really familiar, especially when they are a guest and their musician is not with them!  What do you think about that??  ?/? :-\ ::)

"I'm gonna try and sing this song tonight.  Pick me up musicians...."

then she sings some obscure song buried in the back of the Hymn Book and gets an attitude when you don't play it perfectly.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 12:36:30 PM
"I'm gonna try and sing this song tonight.  Pick me up musicians...."

then she sings some obscure song buried in the back of the Hymn Book and gets an attitude when you don't play it perfectly.


One of the reasons I have a problem with the 'I'm gonna sing or play what's on my heart' mind set. ::) :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 12:48:21 PM
You're absolutely right to feel that way.  Any wise singer or soloist will always try to sing something familiar, especially if they are not accompanied by their musician.  All the exceptional singers in this area, always sing something familiar, if their favorite organist or keyboard player is not in the room.  That's just wisdom.
 :o
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: B3Wannabe on May 29, 2007, 01:13:29 PM
I agree with both dcrosby and sjon.

Sometimes, a person will sing a song that you may not know, but if you listen to it the first time around, you may be able to pick it up. For me, sometimes these songs end up being the ones light the service on fire.

Other times, they'll sing a song, like rj stated, and expect you to know it. That's when I give them the supportive clap.

Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: T-Block on May 29, 2007, 01:59:17 PM

I have a problem with that. Service is NOT the time for trying to figure out songs that are supposed to minister to God's people, IMHO. That's what rehearsals are for.

If musicians would spend more time in the 'woodshed' (meaning practicing) during rehearsals, then there'd be no need to boot someone off of an instrument.

I, for one, am NOT ministered to when folks are fumblin' with some song. The last thing I need to hear or see is someone trying to sing, 'Great is Thy faithfulness' and the musician or the singer is messin' it up; cause as a person who loves music, my whole mindset is going to be, "Why didn't they practice?" :-\

You get a CO-SIGN and an AMEN for this one sjon!!! ;D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 29, 2007, 04:55:04 PM
"woodshed" was a term the ol' jazz cats used to use. Like said previously, it means to practice dilligently. These dayz, like iplay said, it's a gathering of musicians (jam) for instruction and learning: you'll have a ganglion of keys, drummers, gtrs, in a room following a pattern or chord progression, or a song, and elaborating on the theme. and there you get to try out different movements and chord changes, movements, and you can learn some new ways of playing.

this really aint nothin new, as this was commonplace in the height of the Jazz era.  It's just found a resurgence, i think.


o yeah. Hymns are good.(wanted 2 get back to subject.) :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 29, 2007, 04:56:52 PM
Ya'll talkin some truth up-in-here.  The old saying is "Humble is the Way".

Our shed is held at Revival Temple Center of Deliverance, 81-85 16th Ave., Newark, NJ, tomorrow at 9pm-until.  You're more than welcome.

JERSEY?

Ahhhhh BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....all de way out there......

cant a brotha find a shed in NY? >:(
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: under13 on May 29, 2007, 06:23:25 PM
we need to get a shed goin in long island or nyc

i think churches should prepare the up n coming musicians and make sure the know all the hymns and old songs or at least put togather a CD of all the songs  of the church
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 29, 2007, 06:52:12 PM
we need to get a shed goin in long island or nyc

i think churches should prepare the up n coming musicians and make sure the know all the hymns and old songs or at least put togather a CD of all the songs  of the church



Check out the late GE Patterson's CD.  ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ddw4e on May 29, 2007, 08:24:40 PM

Check out the late GE Patterson's CD.  ;)
Also check out Bishop Leonard Scott
Bishop Roland Brown
Pastor J.G. Wilson

They also do some gud ol' contree sanging!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 11:05:28 PM
Thanks Wolfman for that lesson on the Woodshed.  I need to pass that history on to the musicians in Jersey.  Hey.... organize a shed in NYC and let me know.  We, in New Jersey would support.  We're just across the water...  :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 11:09:54 PM
Thanks ddw4e and sjon.  I'm going to look for those cds.  I've Heard G.E. Paterson's CD.  The sound people at my church play it before services from time to time.  Those ole testamonial songs and hymns paved the way.   :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: berbie on May 29, 2007, 11:17:28 PM
Jeez, I would never bump a person off the piano stool while he/she was trying to pick up a song for a singer.  That, in my opinion, is gross, arrogant, ill mannered and low brow.  If the person were to ask me, or look around for assistance, then I would help. Maybe it takes the person a brief period to catch the key or rhythm of the song.  I love good playing and singing. I love to play the piano and have a good spiritual time. I love the compliments that I get sometimes when I play well. But it is all about praising the Lord. I can't hurt people's feelings or disrespect them over a song.  We don't pull a singer off the stage cause they are changing keys, jumping rhythm, or not singing in accordance with our playig abilities.  It is about the words and the spirit anyway, not the performance.  The singer could do something real drastic before singing: ask the musician if they were comfortable playing that song in that key.

berbie

 
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 29, 2007, 11:28:31 PM
Yes I totally agree with you on that.  But I've been in situations where musicians were trying to figure out a song and the Soloist is looking crazy. The song was pretty much becoming a "car wreck".  So what I do is either get on another keyboard and help the song along, or ask the musician can I assist and I just slide on.  I would never just push someone off, because I remember how it felt when I got bumped off in my learning years.  It's a horrible feeling.  Jesus said, "with love and kindness".
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Raspberry07 on May 29, 2007, 11:59:57 PM
Hymns means you supposely PRASING GOD so yes THEY are IMPORTANT!!!!!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: adaria on May 30, 2007, 12:11:16 AM
There is no discrepancy regarding the importance of hymns, but for some reason, I don't hear a lot of hymns sang in churches I've recently attended...although I do see a lot of dusty hymnals in the church pews.  Kinda sad huh?  You know, I hear a lot of the
Dr. Watts genre of Christian music as a replacement for hymns in the deep southern-style black churches.
     I wonder if this is dependent upon the characteristics of a church family to how one responds towards singing hymns? 
Moreso, could it be the difference of predominantly young adult congregation vs. a traditional/maturely-aged church congregation? 
                                                                         What do ya'll think? 
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: porkpiepoppa on May 30, 2007, 12:55:17 AM
weeeelll... im still in my learning phase and my gpa... (my pastor) sings them OOOOOLL school hymns well to me it is like"i need thee" and songs like that my uncle(the real organist) if he sees me struggling hell ask if i need help or hell hop on the keyboard and tell me the progressions i know thats not good to what yall sayin but... i feel its better u learn from experience..for instance i practiced preacher chords MONTHS before i acutally used um in a service its a whole different ball park so i feel what u guys are sayin about not knowin the song ruining it.... but at the same time... your not gonna learn from jus practicing the song by urself now if u got someone that will sing for you in a rehearsal you got it MADDDEEE god bless and pray for me that i get better...
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ifiwereu on May 30, 2007, 04:26:48 AM
This is like sayin' is breakfast important.

Just as I a am with out one plea, but tha at thy blood was shed for me....No need to go in depth on this.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 09:02:38 AM
In response to you Adaria, it's the sign of the times.  Because of where Gospel music is going, young adult choirs and even some senior choirs are leaning towards what they buy or hear on the radio.  Yes, we have to stay current, but we cannot loose focus of where we came from. 

Every first Sunday, our P & W Team does ole skool testamonial songs and hymns.  We've been doing that for at least 5 years.  This helps our young people to learn and know where the new skool came from.

I hated then, but my mother made take lessons, so I've been reading music my whole life.  I have an advantage over my peers who play by ear and have nice progressions.  I can read a hymn and enhance it with my ear.  That way I don't stray to far away from how it is written.

I suggest to all musicians learn how to read music and by a hymn book, thumb through it and find some familiars you have heard and try to play them.  You will take yourself to another level in your ministry.  You can use LGM or other websites to help you learn to read, or do what I use to do, go to the music store and by books on chords, progressions and scales.  YOU CAN DO IT! 
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 09:12:20 AM
In response to you Adaria, it's the sign of the times.  Because of where Gospel music is going, young adult choirs and even some senior choirs are leaning towards what they buy or hear on the radio.  Yes, we have to stay current, but we cannot loose focus of where we came from. 

Every first Sunday, our P & W Team does ole skool testamonial songs and hymns.  We've been doing that for at least 5 years.  This helps our young people to learn and know where the new skool came from.

I hated then, but my mother made take lessons, so I've been reading music my whole life.  I have an advantage over my peers who play by ear and have nice progressions.  I can read a hymn and enhance it with my ear.  That way I don't stray to far away from how it is written.

I suggest to all musicians learn how to read music and by a hymn book, thumb through it and find some familiars you have heard and try to play them.  You will take yourself to another level in your ministry.  You can use LGM or other websites to help you learn to read, or do what I use to do, go to the music store and by books on chords, progressions and scales.  YOU CAN DO IT! 

So, this isn't necessarily a commentary on the importance of hymns, but rather, a commentary on the need to be able to read, as well as, play by ear?
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 09:17:50 AM
I don't know... I guess it takes all of the above to be a well-rounded musician. What do you think sjon, shed some knowledge on the situation.  :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 09:26:42 AM
I don't know... I guess it takes all of the above to be a well-rounded musician. What do you think sjon, shed some knowledge on the situation.  :)

As I stated earlier, it takes the ability to play what one hears coupled with understanding where to play what one hears. I can hear an Eb9#11 all day; but if I don't know WHERE to place it, it does me no good.

As for the knowledge of hymns, our history will always be important. It is also important to note that we aren't in those times anymore and should progress to where we are and beyond. The Bible does record 'forgetting those things which are behind me, I press on 'towards' the goal of the high calling', does it not; wouldn't this qualify?

Again, for the sake of order, one shouldn't be able to play an Eb9#11 without being able to play an Eb triad. ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 30, 2007, 09:29:38 AM

As for the knowledge of hymns, our history will always be important. It is also important to note that we aren't in those times anymore and should progress to where we are and beyond. The Bible does record 'forgetting those things which are behind me, I presss 'towards' the mark of the high calling', does it not; wouldn't this qualify?



*shabba*

(http://www.reggaetrain.com/images/pic_shabba_ranks.jpg)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 09:43:06 AM
I respect your views sjon, but hymns are still so so much a apart of the worship experience.  Hymns are apart of the "higher calling".  Hymns will always be apart of the "mark".

I don't know... I guess I've just been in too many services and concerts, and seen people set free, delivered and ministered to through the singing of a hymn, especially when it's played and sung with the anointing.  I"m talkin now, 2007, hymns are very much alive in our area.   :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 09:54:58 AM
I respect your views sjon, but hymns are still so so much a apart of the worship experience.  Hymns are apart of the "higher calling".  Hymns will always be apart of the "mark".

I don't know... I guess I've just been in too many services and concerts, and seen people set free, delivered and ministered to through the singing of a hymn, especially when it's played and sung with the anointing.  I"m talkin now, 2007, hymns are very much alive in our area.   :)


Because it's the educator in me You do realize that by using that conjunction, 'but', it implies that you actually don't respect my views. :D My mother was an English teacher

To continue, I would submit that anything, ANYTHING done under the anointing can set people free, deliver and minister to them. I've seen all types of music do that very thing. To relegate it to just hymns is putting a limit on God, no?;)  :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 30, 2007, 10:07:34 AM

My mother was an English teacher



ya moms was an english teacher, and ya pops was jamaican?

OH THE COMEDY.

Pops: "'Mi a' go dung a' di' store....yuh waan' sum'min?"
Moms:"Lord! Will you PLEASE speak english!
Pops: " 'Ooman, 'ow yuh mean? Is english mi' a' chat! De King's bruk-up english! Chuh!"


 ;D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 10:12:16 AM
ya moms was an english teacher, and ya pops was jamaican?

OH THE COMEDY.

Pops: "'Mi a' go dung a' di' store....yuh waan' sum'min?"
Moms:"Lord! Will you PLEASE speak english!
Pops: " 'Ooman, 'ow yuh mean? Is english mi' a' chat! De King's bruk-up english! Chuh!"


 ;D


Actually, my mother loves my dad's accent. And, she understands every word. :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 10:17:38 AM
Oh noooo... I'm not saying that.  Sjon I think you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.  I'm just trying to specify the importance of hymns and being somewhat familiar with them.  God's anointing can fall and rest in any form of Gospel or religious music. 

And Wolfman, you are hillarious... LOL ;D :D  THANKS I NEEDED THAT
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 30, 2007, 10:24:24 AM

And Wolfman, you are hillarious... LOL ;D :D  THANKS I NEEDED THAT

aha, apparently u speak coconut-ese....
:)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 10:27:56 AM
just a little... mon... Me gotta alota friends that are from the islands and south america
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 10:34:31 AM
Sjon, it's all gud, we can agree to disagree.  You're my brother and I luv ya.

Hey you got any clips of you playing.  I would love to check you out.
 :) ;D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 10:45:41 AM
Sjon, it's all gud, we can agree to disagree.  You're my brother and I luv ya.

Hey you got any clips of you playing.  I would love to check you out.
 :) ;D

PWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :D ;D :D ;DSHE ASKED FOR CLIPS OF ME :o :o :o :o :o


a. I'm just a beginner at this thing called playin' keyboard. I'm a choir specialistMeaning, you need a stong tenor in your group, I'm yo' man. ;)

b. I'm just a beginner at this thing called computers Meaning, I ain't got no webcam and stuff like dat, I just got a computer a year ago. :-[ :D

c. I'm shy. No jokes from NONE OF YA!!! >:( :D


Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 30, 2007, 10:52:45 AM
c. I'm shy. No jokes from NONE OF YA!!! >:( :D





(http://static.flickr.com/25/57983848_94949ef169.jpg?v=0)<~~~~~~Sjohn
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: spider5 on May 30, 2007, 10:54:30 AM
 Learning hymns is the foundation of Gospel music. You have to learn those hymns. I am 25 years old, and when I first started learning, I wanted to immediately jum in and learn John P. Kee songs who is my favorite artist, but I suddently realized through piano lessons the importance of those hymns.

Hymns have a lot more meaning than a lot of the songs that are sung in today's time. THose hymns are tru songs of inspriation, they are songs taht help you to get through a struggle. A lot of todays' songs are being sung and played simply because of the beat. I often tell people that of you took some of today's songs to the club, and played it people would keep dancing never knowing they were Gospel songs.

I think that a lot of us need to get out of the mode of what's hot and trying to play the songs that people want to hear, and start playing those hymns that people need. Gospel is the root of all music. HYMNS are essential to truly learning Gospel music. If you ever come down to North Carolina, you better know your hymns, because they sing down here. GOD bless You!!!!!!!.             
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 30, 2007, 10:59:41 AM
Split personalities???

Keyboard Player..... (http://www.pixielake.com/Animals/shy.jpg)


GW.........(http://www.watchingamerica.com/images/superman_pic.jpeg)

Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 11:00:47 AM
Keys, you need help!!! :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 11:08:44 AM
Learning hymns is the foundation of Gospel music. You have to learn those hymns. I am 25 years old, and when I first started learning, I wanted to immediately jum in and learn John P. Kee songs who is my favorite artist, but I suddently realized through piano lessons the importance of those hymns.

Hymns have a lot more meaning than a lot of the songs that are sung in today's time. THose hymns are tru songs of inspriation, they are songs taht help you to get through a struggle. A lot of todays' songs are being sung and played simply because of the beat. I often tell people that of you took some of today's songs to the club, and played it people would keep dancing never knowing they were Gospel songs.

I think that a lot of us need to get out of the mode of what's hot and trying to play the songs that people want to hear, and start playing those hymns that people need. Gospel is the root of all music. HYMNS are essential to truly learning Gospel music. If you ever come down to North Carolina, you better know your hymns, because they sing down here. GOD bless You!!!!!!!.             


Again, it's a matter of preference and what one grew up with. Personally, I'm not for ALL of the hymns; I'm just not. There are some that are great, really great. I'm a part of today's generation and what works for me, FOR ME, is a lot of the more contemporary songs THAT HAVE A MEANING AND A MESSAGE.

I don't listen to everything nor everybody, but give me Rhema Worship & Praise over most hymns anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. ;) :D


Don't know whom I'm talkin' about? Do a search; either here or on the 'Net. ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 30, 2007, 11:12:57 AM
Keys, you need help!!! :D

I'm trying to get it...It cost alot of money lol


Today's gospel works for me cause I can relate to issues people speak about in some songs...I like some traditional songs.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 11:27:39 AM
I'm trying to get it...It cost alot of money lol


Today's gospel works for me cause I can relate to issues people speak about in some songs...I like some traditional songs.


I think this whole conversation, minus the musicianship, is about preference and experience.

Now, if we're just talkin' about Gospel music, then, as I stated earlier, learning the hymns IS essential. ;) :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 30, 2007, 11:31:14 AM

I think this whole conversation, minus the musicianship, is about preference and experience.

Now, if we're just talkin' about Gospel music, then, as I stated earlier, learning the hymns IS essential. ;) :D

lol...Yeah hymns are important...
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 12:49:28 PM

I think this whole conversation, minus the musicianship, is about preference and experience.

Now, if we're just talkin' about Gospel music, then, as I stated earlier, learning the hymns IS essential. ;) :D
sjon, I definitely agree, and stop being shy  :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 01:06:38 PM
sjon, I definitely agree, and stop being shy  :D

I'm workin' on it.  :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 30, 2007, 01:13:10 PM
I'm workin' on it.  :D

Him shy??? Yeah Right... If your shy then I am a GW
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 30, 2007, 01:16:48 PM
Sjon, be encouraged and keep practicing.  I directed choirs first before I started playing for them or church.

I went through blood sweat and tears, but I really wanted it.  Now a days Gods is really pouring out on His people, so it's just a matter of time before you're going to mastering the keys.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 01:40:21 PM
Sjon, be encouraged and keep practicing.  I directed choirs first before I started playing for them or church.

I went through blood sweat and tears, but I really wanted it.  Now a days Gods is really pouring out on His people, so it's just a matter of time before you're going to mastering the keys.


Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: dcrosby on May 30, 2007, 02:10:40 PM
This is all great for all of us to share our thoughts. But maybe people get a little intimidated when we talk about hymns because they think about playing the entire hymn book. Are there certain songs that are more important than others? There are definitely songs that are sang more than others! What do you think? :-\
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 30, 2007, 02:28:04 PM
This is all great for all of us to share our thoughts. But maybe people get a little intimidated when we talk about hymns because they think about playing the entire hymn book. Are there certain songs that are more important than others? There are definitely songs that are sang more than others! What do you think? :-\


I doubt that everyone knows the entire Hymn book of any demonination. I'd say that learning the most sung hymns would be a great place to start.

Great is Thy Faithfulness
Draw me Nearer
At the Cross

Hymns such as those. ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 31, 2007, 09:29:28 AM

I doubt that everyone knows the entire Hymn book of any demonination. I'd say that learning the most sung hymns would be a great place to start.

Great is Thy Faithfulness
Draw me Nearer
At the Cross

Hymns such as those. ;)

You're right on point Sjon. It's like when you learn the top 10 on the charts for Praise and Worship and for Choir material; there is a top "10" I guess for hymns, which there is much more that just 10. ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 31, 2007, 10:00:53 AM
You're right on point Sjon. It's like when you learn the top 10 on the charts for Praise and Worship and for Choir material; there is a top "10" I guess for hymns, which there is much more that just 10. ;)

 ::) Alright already with the hymn talk. PREESH!!!! :-\ ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 31, 2007, 10:02:52 AM
::)Alright already with the hymn talk. PREESH!!!! :-\ ;D :D ;D



HAHAHAHAHAHA...Is it causing you to break out?
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 31, 2007, 10:05:14 AM


HAHAHAHAHAHA...Is it causing you to break out?

GET READY, GET READY, GET READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE GOT TO MOVE ON, BUT JUST TAKE 30 SECONDS AND....UUUUUUPPP!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 31, 2007, 10:07:04 AM
Awigh't guys.... I get the hint.  ::) LOL!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 31, 2007, 10:10:22 AM

GET READY, GET READY, GET READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE GOT TO MOVE ON, BUT JUST TAKE 30 SECONDS AND....UUUUUUPPP!!



Ha..Haha...Ha...We gotta move, we gotta move...Put me in Ab my leg feels like running.


Awigh't guys.... I get the hint.  ::) LOL!!

It's all Love.....LOL
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 31, 2007, 10:11:16 AM

GET READY, GET READY, GET READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE GOT TO MOVE ON, BUT JUST TAKE 30 SECONDS AND....UUUUUUPPP!!


WELL JAMES HALL WOULD SAY "LEAP FOR IT"!! HEYYYY...... REEEEBEBEBOSHUNDO
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 31, 2007, 10:14:25 AM
WELL JAMES HALL WOULD SAY "LEAP FOR IT"!! HEYYYY...... REEEEBEBEBOSHUNDO


PWWAAAHHAHHAA Yea, he would!!! :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 31, 2007, 10:15:44 AM
WELL JAMES HALL WOULD SAY "LEAP FOR IT"!! HEYYYY...... REEEEBEBEBOSHUNDO[size=20pt][/size]


That does sound like a Dr. Kevin Bond tongue.....
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 31, 2007, 10:24:28 AM
Let tell ya'll somethin... You gotta be in a live service with either James Hall and Citadel or Worship and Praise.  When Kevin Bond hits those tongues..... It's ovaaa!!!  HEYYYY GLOWRAYYY!!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 31, 2007, 10:32:36 AM
Yall are sick....Yall are spelling out peoples tounges....HAHAHAHA...Shabba!!!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on May 31, 2007, 10:35:53 AM
Let tell ya'll somethin... You gotta be in a live service with either James Hall and Citadel or Worship and Praise.  When Kevin Bond hits those tongues..... It's ovaaa!!!  HEYYYY GLOWRAYYY!!!


I believe you!! :D :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 31, 2007, 01:02:11 PM
Ok... now that we got our praise on... should we close this topic out?  I'm a newcomer, "where do we go from here"??   :o ?/? ::)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Keys410 on May 31, 2007, 01:05:05 PM
Topics never end around here...They get Hi Jacked....Kinda like what yall did...lol...Congrats on helping Hi jack your own thread lol
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ddw4e on May 31, 2007, 01:06:25 PM
Ok... now that we got our praise on... should we close this topic out?  I'm a newcomer, "where do we go from here"??   :o ?/? ::)
If no one answers it just go down the list. But if you want to continue, just keep posting. If you want another subject, of course, just start a new topic :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on May 31, 2007, 01:11:33 PM
Thanks ddw4e for the knowledge  :)  I really enjoy conversing with you guys.  Be blessed and stay blessed.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: THE WOLFMAN on May 31, 2007, 03:00:30 PM
Ok... now that we got our praise on... should we close this topic out?  I'm a newcomer, "where do we go from here"??   :o ?/? ::)

make sure you bring some bbq for the grill....
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ddw4e on May 31, 2007, 03:37:34 PM
Thanks ddw4e for the knowledge  :)  I really enjoy conversing with you guys.  Be blessed and stay blessed.
Likewise!! And please come back LOL! :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on June 01, 2007, 02:51:01 PM
alright wolfman I got the ribs.....

ddw4e I ain't goin nowhere. 

I'll be talkin to guys in the other topics. 

It's the weekend now and I got a couple of calls to play for some services, and I'm busy all day Sunday, HEY!!! Praise Gawd for the increase... GLOWRAY!!!  I was a little broke this week.... LOL :D ;D
I'll talk to ya'll next week.
Be blessed
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ddw4e on June 01, 2007, 03:19:49 PM
alright wolfman I got the ribs.....

ddw4e I ain't goin nowhere. 

I'll be talkin to guys in the other topics. 

It's the weekend now and I got a couple of calls to play for some services, and I'm busy all day Sunday, HEY!!! Praise Gawd for the increase... GLOWRAY!!!  I was a little broke this week.... LOL :D ;D
I'll talk to ya'll next week.
Be blessed
See..You are definitely cool with me! You have a blessed weekend and next week we negotiate on that MKS20 alright?! (I saw that in a vision...probably was a dream instead :D)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on June 01, 2007, 05:13:39 PM
See..You are definitely cool with me! You have a blessed weekend and next week we negotiate on that MKS20 alright?! (I saw that in a vision...probably was a dream instead :D)

Yup... you were dreamin... you were "I Dream of Jeanie" dreamin... LOL LOL  :D :D
You have a blessed weekend also.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sjonathan02 on June 01, 2007, 06:48:41 PM
Yup... you were dreamin... you were "I Dream of Jeanie" dreamin... LOL LOL  :D :D
You have a blessed weekend also.


PWWAAAHHAHAHAHAHA 'I Dream of Jeanie' PWWWWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ddw4e on June 01, 2007, 08:56:07 PM
Yup... you were dreamin... you were "I Dream of Jeanie" dreamin... LOL LOL  :D :D
You have a blessed weekend also.
LOL!!!! You do the same!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: diverse379 on June 02, 2007, 05:13:10 AM
Wow hot topic I only read the first page but i noticed it got hijacked
i want to comment on the first page


one thing nobody really mentioned
or some people mismentioned
is that

it really is not about simple chords and complex chords

it is different chords

some of the chords that are used in hymns are just as strange and unfamiliar as some of the so called complex chords
for example although sometimes the traditional hymn doesent utilize complex upper structures like 9ths and 13th chords

but they do utilize big stretches in the left hand
often tenths are employed
sophisticated bass walking
octave melody in the right hand
sixths and thirds runs in the right hand
fast octave appeggios
german b6th  chords
italian 6th chords french #4th chords

listen to james cleveland and you will see that there is very little simplicity there.

or listen to Thomas whitfield play a hymn and you will see how to new school an old school hymn


but to be honest with you the so called complex chords arent really complex at all
not the way  A lot of the  young cats are approaching them anyway

most of the chords the young guys are playing are poly chords which is why they sound so sophisticated
but the young guy is just saying g to himself

ok C tritone  with a dmajor chord

or C tritone with an f# triad

etc

probably not everybody but a lot


the hymns are simpler in structure but require a good deal of dexterity with inversions and a different feel to bring them accross


most cats play by ear but there are several cd's that are hymn specific


one thing that has really rescued me is my knowledge of theory that allowed me to dig into the hymns and be able to play them

I will be honest I dont know them all
but I can quickly turn to the page and play

sometimes i can even transpose the hymn on the fly by quickly scanning the bass movement..


hymns I think are a staple and if your church doesent sing them

unless it is because your pastor doesent want to hear them
then it is up to the musician to introduce some

there are some beautiful hymns that can stand with any praise and worship song
so being ain a church that doesent sing hymns is not really a reason for not learning them

because as the musician you there to educate and lead the worship service.

just like in my church which is an older traditional congregation

i have to teach them to embrace praise and worship songs

it is hard but they do it
because they know i am the leader


now even though I play hymns when I hear someone like sam or ezra buford play them i am humbled because i recognize I am missing something for real .

there are many sources out there for people who want to learn
so i dont even go in for the the older cats arent sharing

Ethel Caffie austin has a dvd and she gives an excellent course on how to play hymns on the piano,

Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ifiwereu on June 03, 2007, 05:25:24 AM
Gata jump in on this one too. Hymns are just as important as any other church music.
It's interesting that folk will sing the lyrics real well to any given popluar contemporary gospel. ex. I call you faithful, Bless me indeed, Hezekiah's faithful to name a few. Yet when a hymn is called out most people start mumblin' or jus plain ole shut up.

Another aspect I'd like to call attention to is people believe that all hymns are sanctified...well they sanctified now.  There are a few hymns that were actually love songs sung in bars and saloons that found their way into the hymnal. When they were brought into the church during the middle ages church folk frowned on them. But God "cleaned them up" and we now sing them!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on June 03, 2007, 11:34:28 PM
Gata jump in on this one too. Hymns are just as important as any other church music.
It's interesting that folk will sing the lyrics real well to any given popluar contemporary gospel. ex. I call you faithful, Bless me indeed, Hezekiah's faithful to name a few. Yet when a hymn is called out most people start mumblin' or jus plain ole shut up.

Another aspect I'd like to call attention to is people believe that all hymns are sanctified...well they sanctified now.  There are a few hymns that were actually love songs sung in bars and saloons that found their way into the hymnal. When they were brought into the church during the middle ages church folk frowned on them. But God "cleaned them up" and we now sing them!

Thanks for your insight and history lesson.  I hope somebody really takes heed.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: C-note jr. on June 04, 2007, 12:00:12 AM
Yes I do believe that Hymns are important because as they say young people grow the church but older people pay the bills. Hey also where i am from if you cant play hymnals they dont want you unless you are extremely good. But yes they are important I encourage all youthful musicians as myself to learn to play hymns. I pay 36 dollars an hour to learn to read hymns to add to what  know.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on June 04, 2007, 04:54:23 PM
Yes I do believe that Hymns are important because as they say young people grow the church but older people pay the bills. Hey also where i am from if you cant play hymnals they dont want you unless you are extremely good. But yes they are important I encourage all youthful musicians as myself to learn to play hymns. I pay 36 dollars an hour to learn to read hymns to add to what  know.
Boy... you just made my day!!! It is such a blessing to hear that a young person understands the importance of hymns.  Because of your desire to learn, God is definitely going to take your music ministry to the next level.  Keep practicing and growing.   :) ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: SoundofJoy on June 04, 2007, 05:23:15 PM
You have not because you won't ask..... I have hymnal lessons on my site for the musician who want to learn to play them. No one asks me for them? I play a classical/jazz/gospel feel to hymns where it makes you want to sing them. If you suggest one I'll make a video and show you how to do it for piano/keyboard/organ.

Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: sensai on July 14, 2007, 11:21:53 PM
The Hymns are not only important to learn but they all have messages and inspirational context that have stood the test of time.  The hymns can be played with a contemporary flair. There is a book available on Amazon.com entitled "Modern Chord Changes to Favorite Hymns": Advanced Chord Voicings for the Piano and Organ.  Check it out!!!
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on July 16, 2007, 03:36:19 AM
The Hymns are not only important to learn but they all have messages and inspirational context that have stood the test of time.  The hymns can be played with a contemporary flair. There is a book available on Amazon.com entitled "Modern Chord Changes to Favorite Hymns": Advanced Chord Voicings for the Piano and Organ.  Check it out!!!
Thanks for the infor I'm definitely going to check out that website.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Pianist84 on July 16, 2007, 06:38:29 PM
Hymns are very important! Almost every church sings hymns so it's very important to know them. That's why I make it a priority to learn more hymns each week while I'm in college. No tengo un piano in mi residencia en Auburn. Voy a la iglesia de Auburn United Methodist practicar en el piano. Me gusta tocar el piano todos los días. ¡La iglesia de Auburn United Methodist tienen muchos pianos!  I know some hymns but I would like to learn MORE hymns. And I would like to apply want I learn in classical music to hymns. Also, when I learn hymns, I get a chance to come up with my own unique style so that I won't sound like another musician.   
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on July 17, 2007, 01:31:16 AM
Pianist84.  That was so beautifully put.  Keep doing what you're doing, I know God is already molding your unique style for His Glory.   :) ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Pianist84 on July 17, 2007, 02:22:22 PM
Pianist84.  That was so beautifully put.  Keep doing what you're doing, I know God is already molding your unique style for His Glory.   :) ;)

I will keep playing the piano. :) I hope to become an organist someday. How long have you been playing the organ? Auburn United Methodist Church (the church where I go to practice piano) doesn't have any Hammond organs. They have one old electronic organ, and 2 pipe organs. The pipe organ that they have in their sanctuary looks like it's hard to operate.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on July 17, 2007, 11:36:37 PM
How long have you been playing the organ? .
Oh... I've been playing organ and piano for a long time.  I totally understand your situation with the pipe organ.  Pipe organ is one of my favorite instruments.  I have tons of recordings by Bach on pipe organ.  I use to play the pipe years ago.  Now that I am a member of a Pentecostal church, you know the Hammond is up in there.  ;D  I guess you willl have to stick to the piano for now.  If you have some friends that play Hammond, maybe they will let you experiment at their church or home.  I'm sure you will get into the Hammond soon.   :) ;)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Pianist84 on July 18, 2007, 09:36:22 AM
 I use to play the pipe years ago. 

Wow! That's cool. Well, I do remember trying to teach myself how to play the pipe organ at Auburn United Methodist. In the past, I practice in their chapel. They have a pipe organ and a grand piano in the chapel. I want to get a chance to practice on the pipe organ again but they keep the chapel locked up now..... :(. But I remember trying to practicing on the pipe organ and it was a new experience for me because it's so much different from the piano.  I was trying to get use the foot pedals and I trying to use both my right and left feet to play the pedals. Maybe I should talk my parents into getting an organ for the house. I have a piano at home but I would like to get an organ. But I'm interested in taking organ lessons in the future.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: SoundofJoy on July 18, 2007, 09:25:05 PM
Here is a youtube post of the hymn "I am thine O, Lord" in Ab. I played it traditional with a classical feel then with a pentecostal or COGIC feel. This will give you an idea of how to approach hymnal music.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4WnfPiJwdc
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Pianist84 on July 18, 2007, 10:28:28 PM
Here is a youtube post of the hymn "I am thine O, Lord" in Ab. I played it traditional with a classical feel then with a pentecostal or COGIC feel. This will give you an idea of how to approach hymnal music.


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4WnfPiJwdc[/url]


That's a nice clip. I have sent a couple of your clips online in the past.  :)
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: chevonee on July 18, 2007, 11:57:30 PM
Here is a youtube post of the hymn "I am thine O, Lord" in Ab. I played it traditional with a classical feel then with a pentecostal or COGIC feel. This will give you an idea of how to approach hymnal music.


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4WnfPiJwdc[/url]


ONCE AGAIN, I AM IMPRESSED BY YOUR SKILLS MR TOLBERT.....I VISIT YOUR SIGHT ALL OF THE TIME ALONG WITH LGM BECAUSE IT IS VERY VITAL TO LEARN ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT MUSIC IF YOU EVER EXPECT TO GET ANYWHERE. HYMNALS ARE THE FOUNDATION ON WHICH A MUSICIANS HOUSE IS EITHER BUILT OR DESTROYED PERIOD. EVERYONE AROUND THIS SMALL TOWN (EASTMAN,GA) IS TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY CALL A SO-CALLED NEW THING AND ELIMINATE HYMNS ALL TOGETHER BUT ITS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE...LOL
IF YOU CAN LEARN A HYMN YOU CAN LEARN IT ALL.....RIGHT MR TOLBERT?I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON MY THEORY AND HAVE FOUND THAT LEARNING HYMNS ACTUALLY TEACHES ME THEORY AS WELL. THAT GOOD OLE AMAZING GRACE HOW SWEET THE SOUND. THOSE SONGS ALSO HELP GET YOU THROUGH THOSE HARD TIMES....MY FAVORITE HYMN OF ALL IS "CLOSE TO THEE". WHEN I WAS IN THE WHEELCHAIR THAT SONG GAVE ME HOPE OF BEING ABLE TO WALK AGAIN...AND SURE ENOUGH I AM!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D SOMEBODY GIVE ME SOME SHOUTING MUSIC........HIT IT MR TOLBER...lol
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on July 19, 2007, 11:21:01 PM
Pianist 84 I'm sure you are going to get to being an organist very soon.  It's always good for a keyboard musician to be versatile on all keys: Piano, Organ, Synths.  Keep doin whacha doin.  ;) :)

And Sam..... that clip was a great demonstration.  I've to stop being lazy and post a couple clips demonstraton hymns.  I've had the blessing of playing for a Baptist church at 8am and my church, which is Pentecostal for years now.  When at the Baptist church I have to kick out those hymns as well as Gospel (contemp and traditional). 
At my church we do just about everything that's on the top 20 as well as a good ole hymn.  :D ;D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ShawnG on July 20, 2007, 11:37:22 AM
Praise The Lord to All;

For I just got through reading the entire 5 pages of this forum, and basically, I JUST NEED TO QUIT BEING LAZY AND FORCE MYSELF INTO THE HYMN BOOK.
I'll keep on working on the theory of reading music and I thank you all for posting your thoughts and other helpful info. God Bless!!!

ShawnG
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on July 21, 2007, 12:51:37 AM
Praise The Lord to All;

For I just got through reading the entire 5 pages of this forum, and basically, I JUST NEED TO QUIT BEING LAZY AND FORCE MYSELF INTO THE HYMN BOOK.
I'll keep on working on the theory of reading music and I thank you all for posting your thoughts and other helpful info. God Bless!!!

ShawnG
Yesss... you can do it.  You will be blessed, not just because you are learning something different, but the lyrics in hymns are so deep and inspiring.  Just ask the Lord to help you and instruct you. He'll do it, I'm a witness.  ;) :D
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ShawnG on July 26, 2007, 07:38:28 AM
Yesss... you can do it.  You will be blessed, not just because you are learning something different, but the lyrics in hymns are so deep and inspiring.  Just ask the Lord to help you and instruct you. He'll do it, I'm a witness.  ;) :D
Thanks and I know God is already blessing you my dear Sister.  ;D....I be carrying around this hymn book with me while I'm on duty and studying it. It's a challenge, but until I get back into the states, it all I got. But it's all good. I'm still working on getting the choir on the Youtube and myspace so please bear with my technical difficulties that I have to deal with hear. I know some others have been inquiring about the choir here in Cuba. We're not professional but we do our best to be perfect for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As soon as I get a chance I will post some videos. God Bless.
ShawnG
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: iplaytheorgan2 on July 28, 2007, 09:47:53 AM
I know some others have been inquiring about the choir here in Cuba. We're not professional but we do our best to be perfect for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As soon as I get a chance I will post some videos. God Bless.
ShawnG
That is so wonderful that you are spreading the Word by way of Music Ministry, that's outside of the "comfort zone", meaning the U.S.  You really need to get that choir on video.  I'm apart of the GMWA(Gospel Music Workshop of America).  The Convention is being held in Orlando, FL this year.  Because of this organization, I have seen choirs and musicians from Japan, Germany, etc minister and just turn it out like they were "us"  ;D.  It would be awesome to see a choir from Cuba giving God glory.  Take care
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: ferrente on August 02, 2007, 11:46:55 AM
Welcome To LGM,  sensai
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: fmason3 on August 13, 2007, 02:49:41 PM
I can read a hymn and enhance it with my ear.  That way I don't stray to far away from how it is written.

YOU SAID IT!...I can't stand to hear a musician play a hymn so far out in the ocean that people don't even know what they're playing.  The changes may be tight, but that is not appropriate for congregational singing.  You either a) force the people to sing in unison because the harmonies conflict or you b.) end up soloing when you should be ACCOMPANYING.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: fmason3 on August 13, 2007, 02:52:48 PM
I respect your views sjon, but hymns are still so so much a apart of the worship experience.  Hymns are apart of the "higher calling".  Hymns will always be apart of the "mark".

I don't know... I guess I've just been in too many services and concerts, and seen people set free, delivered and ministered to through the singing of a hymn, especially when it's played and sung with the anointing.  I"m talkin now, 2007, hymns are very much alive in our area.   :)

agreed....and hymns have some of the prettiest most meaningful words.   A lot of gospel music these days is lacking scriptural basis or it's just vain repetition. 
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: fmason3 on August 13, 2007, 03:11:41 PM
hymns I think are a staple and if your church doesent sing them

unless it is because your pastor doesent want to hear them
then it is up to the musician to introduce some

there are some beautiful hymns that can stand with any praise and worship song
so being ain a church that doesent sing hymns is not really a reason for not learning them

because as the musician you there to educate and lead the worship service.

just like in my church which is an older traditional congregation

i have to teach them to embrace praise and worship songs

it is hard but they do it
because they know i am the leader



Very well said man.  I play for the oldest AME church in Virginia.  These people love their anthems and hymns (straight forward).  They also enjoy gospel and newer "praise and worship" music.  I can play a hymn like "Come thou Fount of every blessing" on the pipe organ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py26I7WbiSw) and by the last verse, hands are in the air and everything...it takes them a while to calm down...but that song has BEAUTIFUL words.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Metronome on August 13, 2007, 03:49:37 PM
This is interesting......in my hometown (Syracuse, NY.....HOLLA) you gotta know ya old school and ya new school or you wont get a gig nowhere lol..............churches up here have a lot of pastors woh like to hear the new p&w stuff.  However, they like to SING the older stuff........I know a lot of dudes who can od either or and they are right in the audience every sunday..............hymns aren't that hard.  When I play them I just follow my normal progressions, I just "dumb down" my chords.............Instead of addin all kinds of sharps and flats lol just play a major/minor/diminished chord......
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: romans 10:9 on October 19, 2007, 04:15:59 PM
i totally agree with you on the hymnal songs. i play for a cme church and the wiser (senior) choir enjoy the hymal songs but the younger choir wants to sing the ore up to date. The only situation with that is that i read music and alot of the sheet music of course is not going to sound like the music on the radio.

so yes i feel like playing hymal is important because the meaning is so strong and powerful and they sound just as good as the contemporary. (and they actually have verses)

But as long as it is the name of the LORD and when they are song it is as though you are sing to the LORD...then all is well. Just don't forget the spirit of GOD.
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: angiey on October 22, 2007, 09:44:49 PM
What I will say to the above subject is that old school and new school have a place in the worship service. When rehearse the young people they frequently ask why we sing the hymns and I tell them this ministry is one that touches all the people of the church. On any given sunday you can sing a hymn and feel the spirit in the building as the hymn is sung by the saints. So they will always have a place. :)
(
Title: Re: Hymns..are they important????........... Oh yes they are!!!!
Post by: Mills on December 03, 2008, 10:15:32 AM
I kno i am extra late to respo0nding to this post but I just ran across it. Although I agree 100% about musicians needing to learn their hymns i disagree, well not really dissagree but hold a stong stateent. Myself I feel that I need to get better playing hymns because its wat churches first knew before the contemporary songs and like old school tempatations or earth wind and fire and etfc you want to hear that song at the right time...I am a yougn musician and sometimes God would say play this song like just as I am and I would be thinkin God you know its not going to sound that good. So I wont play it but I would think of something that is like that. Because if you mess up a hymnal you would have the entire mother board snarling you with there eyes.

which bring me to my point, alot of the post i have read were saying that the old hymns have great words to them which are true for some..I looked at some hymnal books like the one iun the AME church and was like okay this has nothing to do with God????...But I feel the contemporary has strong messages too I think musicians get lost in the world  of chords and music and theory in these types of songs and forget what is being said...If you stongly stop and listen to these songs you will hear the scriptures behind them or the emssage to them..So I am an advocate of using praise and worship music in church service in an old service..(I PLAY FOR SMALL AME CHURCH) and using the  old skool songs as my template to show them what i mean. like a mix i do is all the way by carlton pearson (old song i know) but when go into where he leads me i will follow....

My problem is knowing that your not making phat progressions but simple progression but the bass line is what kills me  cause it sounds too dry.