Why do churches under pay organists?

[sjonathan02]

Let me turn this around so the mirror is on you.  Take YOUR job...  The one that puts food on your family's table.  Ask yourself those same questions in context to your job.  I can appreciate the fact that folks love to try and pin the badge of "It's your responsibility" onto all working musicians when it comes to playing for the Lord.  My question is that a plumber must have tools, as does an electrician, a welder, a carpenter, what is different about music?.  All jobs require tools of the trade.  Your arguement is flawed because you are trying to paint someone in the corner with a weak premise.

We practice, go to school, listen to music, and take lessons in order to be the BEST that we CAN be.  This is primarily so we can be hireable.  You would not hire a mechanic that had no training.  You would not hire a plumber that had no credentials or idea of what he was doing.  Likewise, a working musician is doing all this work for the end outcome...  To get hired...  Now whether or not you accept payment is up to you.   It is so easy to paint with broad strokes on the woes of asking for $$, but the reality of it is, the church musician is no different than any other member of the staff an should be treated as thus. 

I DISAGREE, however with the statement of musicians being more important the the preacher.  The MESSAGE is ALWAYS the most important thing.  You do not HAVE to have music in your services, but you must have a good pastor to keep the church on the path.

W

I'll answer your query in general. My job doesn't and won't pay for my student loans.


I'm a teacher; I went to school to be a teacher. I have bills from that endeavor that I must pay back. I don't expect my employer to do so.


I went to school with the expectation of being hired as a teacher, and THAT is how I am paid (or compensated, if you will) for my time and efforts BEFORE I received my job.

The previous poster sounded as if they expected to be reimbursed for the money that they put out for their ability and desire to become a church musician. That doesn't make sense.

Now, if said individual wants to improve upon their craft, as they should, then THEY are to purchase the CDs (in my case, it would be various supplies), THEY are to pay for their lessons (in my case, that would be the conferences that I attend to improve upon my teaching skills), etc.


Let us NOT assume that because I'm NOT a church musician that I don't understand the undertaking.

In addition, if we're going to try to draw a parallel between professions, let's talk about how under paid teachers are, since you decided to try and come at MY neck about MY job.

BTW, I AM glad that we agree about what's important in church. That's a good place to start.

[Keys410]

Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with getting paid by the churh. Man either folks are complaining about not getting paid or not being paid enough. First, we must realize it is a blessing to be able to be used by the Lord in an important part of worship. As a MOM I don't get paid by the church but I still play my part and do it faithfully. I don't think musicians should get paid right away. There should be a grace period in which they prove faithfulness and understand how important there role is in the ministry. Now a days and body that can play can get a "Gig" in church playing. Just my opinion

[Metronome]

My Dawg, THAT'S a whole 'notha thread, right there.

True..........just sayin it to get my point across that the actual pay scale aint really the issue................nothin else

[key-wiz]

I'll answer your query in general. My job doesn't and won't pay for my student loans.

If Your Job Won't Pay Them Then Why Are You Working????????? What Do They Pay You With???????????????

[key-wiz]

Well The True Question Should Be Where Are You Employed!!! Is Your Employer The Church??? If That Is The Case Then Money Is The Reason That You Play Period. Let Some Of The Posters In This Forum Go To Work 40 Hours In A Week and Pay Day There Boss Shakes There Hand and Say Thank You and Not Will Be The End!!!!

[Keys410]

I'll answer your query in general. My job doesn't and won't pay for my student loans.


I'm a teacher; I went to school to be a teacher. I have bills from that endeavor that I must pay back. I don't expect my employer to do so.


I went to school with the expectation of being hired as a teacher, and THAT is how I am paid (or compensated, if you will) for my time and efforts BEFORE I received my job.

The previous poster sounded as if they expected to be reimbursed for the money that they put out for their ability and desire to become a church musician. That doesn't make sense.

Now, if said individual wants to improve upon their craft, as they should, then THEY are to purchase the CDs (in my case, it would be various supplies), THEY are to pay for their lessons (in my case, that would be the conferences that I attend to improve upon my teaching skills), etc.


Let us NOT assume that because I'm NOT a church musician that I don't understand the undertaking.

In addition, if we're going to try to draw a parallel between professions, let's talk about how under paid teachers are, since you decided to try and come at MY neck about MY job.

BTW, I AM glad that we agree about what's important in church. That's a good place to start.

Teachers are under paid but you do make decent money....I am considering becoming a music teacher..

[sjonathan02]

If Your Job Won't Pay Them Then Why Are You Working????????? What Do They Pay You With???????????????

I'm sure your question is satirical in nature.

[key-wiz]

I'm sure your question is satirical in nature.

Drum Roll Please

[sjonathan02]

Drum Roll Please

Ok. 

If your question ISN'T satirical in nature, what did you mean by it?

[C-organ]

What a lot of people do not realize is that if you are single person without any kids taxes will eat you up. Some churches give you a 1099 at the end of the year for tax purposes. Essentially, you end up giving most of your money back to the IRS. One time, musicians would get paid under the table(some still do), however, since the IRS has "cracked down" on most churches, this behavior has stopped.

[Wolfram]

What a lot of people do not realize is that if you are single person without any kids taxes will eat you up. Some churches give you a 1099 at the end of the year for tax purposes. Essentially, you end up giving most of your money back to the IRS. One time, musicians would get paid under the table(some still do), however, since the IRS has "cracked down" on most churches, this behavior has stopped.

If you are putting away 25% of your income for the IRS, then you need not worry about 1099.  I have been doing this a long time and have learned that if you are honest with your income you never have to worry about things.  It is those that believe they are entitled to tax free money that get into trouble.  Set up an account to place the 25% into or set an envelope aside for the cash.  Train yourself to do this each and everytime you get paid for a gig and you will soon be making it a habit.  The church has a tax shelter, you do not.

W

[jonesl78]

What a lot of people do not realize is that if you are single person without any kids taxes will eat you up. Some churches give you a 1099 at the end of the year for tax purposes. Essentially, you end up giving most of your money back to the IRS. One time, musicians would get paid under the table(some still do), however, since the IRS has "cracked down" on most churches, this behavior has stopped.

Please reconsider taxes and being single. lol  you haven't seen nothing yet if you plan on having kids. Other life expenses more than surpass the child tax deductions. ( buy 2 plane tickets instead of one, weekly daycare costs,pampers,clothes, etc.)

There are many misconceptions about taxes. A 1099 has many more benefits than your standard 1040 return. Also, you don't actually pay 25% of your total income. You pay 25% of the portion of your income that falls within that particular bracket. But thats a whole 'nother thread.

Churches are accountable just like any other non-profit organization for their cashflow and ( if my memory serves me correctly)I believe they have to pay an employee with a check.

Just my 2 cents

[Minmusic77]

There isn't anything wrong with getting paid as long as the ministry has the funds to do it.  Musicianship is hard work.  If you play for the love and for God's glory the side orders will come but if you start playing because you feel the money is good then thats the wrong motivation.
Ofcourse there are going to be a lot there misinterpret what the Bible says about money.  If a musician who puts in alot of time shouldn't he/she be paid $350-$500 a week? Then we need to stop paying pastors, bishops, evangelist.  Being a musician is a unique skill set.  If you look at it there are more preachers than musicians.  If we refrain from the holier than though attitude and use common sense in our judgement we should see that musicians deserve lover offerings/salary.

[Wolfram]

Please reconsider taxes and being single. lol  you haven't seen nothing yet if you plan on having kids. Other life expenses more than surpass the child tax deductions. ( buy 2 plane tickets instead of one, weekly daycare costs,pampers,clothes, etc.)

There are many misconceptions about taxes. A 1099 has many more benefits than your standard 1040 return. Also, you don't actually pay 25% of your total income. You pay 25% of the portion of your income that falls within that particular bracket. But thats a whole 'nother thread.

Churches are accountable just like any other non-profit organization for their cashflow and ( if my memory serves me correctly)I believe they have to pay an employee with a check.

Just my 2 cents

err...

A form 1099 is what you get as a contract player (aka independent contractor)  from an employer that does not with-hold taxes for you.  This 1099 is their way of showing that they are paying money out for services rendered by a private contractor.  It is YOUR responsibility to pay you own taxes on this money if it is over the sum of $600.  Now, what does this have to do with the form 1040?  This 1099 is added into your INCOME portion of your form 1040.  In fact if you are a musician and are properly declaring your money you are going to be filing a form 1040 with a schedule C attached to declare your deductions.  These deductions are what you place against your income so the tax is less and you get a return.  If you need more information on this matter, contact me and I will walk you through it.  Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Wolfram

[darkwing]

I realized a long time ago that I enjoyed playing too much to allow frustrated expectations take that away.  I would have to say that my parents were very instrumental in this realization.  Because of that, I charted a traditional course of education to support my family with.  Now, music is something I enjoy participating in without financial frustrations.  Somewhere along the way, God blessed the time that I had to give freely and I am content with my rate of growth.  Not only that, but there's not as much pressure. 

[nessalynn77]

How many preachers do you think are CORRECTLY exegeting texts every sunday? Most of these black preachers have fake doctorate of divinity degrees and are CROOKED any ways! Sermons are 30-40 minutes. Singing is like 1hr 30 minutes of the church service. THE MUSIC ministry is the MOST important ministry on sunday! Yes it is always good to have a good word. But the CHOIR and the organist carry the service. NOT the pastor! I will be praying for you as well! I am going to be going to divinity school to earn a masters. Do you know that most preachers dont even know how to publicly speak well? They dont even know how to WRITE A SERMON! And on sunday, many of them are LONG winded and they LOSE people's interest! Now come on dont act like I aint right about this! If you had to choose one not to come to church on sunday, who would you pick? THe pastor or the organist? Well being that there are OTHER minister's on the roster, I would pick the pastor. A DEACON can preach a sermon if needed!

It seems your priorities are a little jumbled.  I mean the man of God is called to lead the people of God and literally serve as a shepherd.  That goes beyond preaching on Sunday Morning. 

*A lot of good pastors are underpaid because they have a heart for the ministry and want to invest everything they can to see it grow. 
*The organist doesn't have responsibility for the souls in the congregation. 

[key-wiz]

 
*The organist doesn't have responsibility for the souls in the congregation. 

 ?/?yes they do