LearnGospelMusic.com Community

Please login or register.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: you have all the wheat works and hear and play dvds but you dont learn anything  (Read 5388 times)

Offline diverse379

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2084
  • Gender: Male
  • Players Govern Players Spectators Form Opinions

has this happened to you?

you buy a dvd watch it once or twice learn a move or two then put it away never to watch it again

you were impressed with what you heard but somehow you just cant seem to play like them

well I have been there
I have every dvd and video sebastian and hear and play puts out
plus the worship extreme and gospel chops dvds as well

and many from homespun tapes

Here is a suggestion for those of you who have more than two dvds from wheat works


Sebastian formatted his tapes similarly
they all have 2 5 1 changes
they all have shouts
preacher chords
talk music
and worship moves

so use this to your advantage

maybe you are playing organ
so grab a few left hand chords from roger jean and a couple more from pj morgan
or grab a whole bunch from organ essentials
maybe

you want to learn a 2 5 1

learn how cassandra does it
then get pj version
and combine it with the eddie howard

you want runs

go to john peters and justin gilbert

my feeling on Dvds is that they are great
but lets face it you arent going to get great over night

and I think it takes tremendous discipline to stay with a dvd for the couple of years it may take you to become that fluid in all your keys

so take drops and tid bits
on the pertinent things that you need to develop


here are some specific examples

if you want traditional piano rag time devotional shout moves

justin gilbert
john peters
hear and play 300

for shouts
john peters
pj morgan
cassandra oniel
hear and play 500

for 25 1 's
any wheat works product except roger jeans brooklyn organ
(great dvd just no 2 5 1's

for more extended progressions
I like pj morgans tape chords

for runs pj also put out a tape called runs
justin has runs
and john peters has several runs
pj morgan has several runs
crazy chords and runs has several runs

phat voicings

cassandra oniel
justin gilbert
pj morgan

hymns
ethel caffie austin
gopsel piano  homespun tapes
pamela davis wheat works
essentials series hymns and beyond wheat works

if you just want songs
you sometimes dont know all the songs on a dvd until you purchase it so here is a list of some of the songs

if you want me to put out a list of all the songs that are on the various dvd's then let me know and I will put a list together
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline musallio

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3404
  • Gender: Male
  • Merry Christmas to you :-)
    • Hear & Play page

Ok, the high time has come for me to go with my (in)famous request:
Plz start a "diverse" S...

I don't have 98% of those dvds, but I know gk300 & 600 will help me out tremendously & not just in the key of Ab.

Thank for another 5 star rated review..

Powered & Sponsored by Jesus Christ...

Offline momuzik

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
  • Gender: Male

So where does Jamal Hartwell fit in?

Offline musallio

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3404
  • Gender: Male
  • Merry Christmas to you :-)
    • Hear & Play page

So where does Jamal Hartwell fit in?

Me thinks 'twas an unintended omission; but Jamal is certainly included in Diverse's list if you are doing tritones , worship & all the neo-soul stuff.
Powered & Sponsored by Jesus Christ...

Offline diverse379

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2084
  • Gender: Male
  • Players Govern Players Spectators Form Opinions

Me thinks 'twas an unintended omission; but Jamal is certainly included in Diverse's list if you are doing tritones , worship & all the neo-soul stuff.
Me thinks 'twas an unintended omission; but Jamal is certainly included in Diverse's list if you are doing tritones , worship & all the neo-soul stuff.

sorry it was an unintended ommission
jamal hartwells project the extreme which is the one I have
is unequaled for quickly getting you up to speed on modern chord changes

it propelled me faster then any other project I own,

I would recommend it primarily for voicings and neo sould worship


To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline chevonee

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13133
  • Gender: Female
  • Back and better than ever!
    • God's Glory

I have Jamal Hartwell's Urban Extreme and it is indeed a very COMPLEX dvd set to say the least. It is definitely not for beginners. I also agree with you diverse on the fact that you have to be willing to stick to something in order to get results.
Strike while the iron is hot!

Offline MemphisKeys

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 181
  • Gender: Male

how does the progressions work I understand what they are but I don't understand how they work... I mean I can play a 2-5-1 progression in any key but what else do I do or just follow the number system...any tips...
Music is my Best friend

Offline diverse379

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2084
  • Gender: Male
  • Players Govern Players Spectators Form Opinions

how does the progressions work I understand what they are but I don't understand how they work... I mean I can play a 2-5-1 progression in any key but what else do I do or just follow the number system...any tips...

progressions are just a way to get the harmony to support the melody


in any key if your melody sticks to the key you are in

the one chord will harmonize three notes
the five  chord will harmonize two additional notes
and the four chord will harmonize the remaining two notes

so the one four five
chords will harmonize every note in a given melody providing it stays in key

you can replace the two chord for the four chord
so now we get the 2 5 1

you can expand the one chord
meaning if you are sitting on it for a while
you can play different bass notes under help create motion

that is where we get the 1 3 6 2 5 1

the 6 chord and the 3 chord fill in for the 1 chord

and the 7 fills in for the 5 chord

the 6 chord can also lead to the four chord


all this may seem confusing
but it all starts

with the one chord and the 5 chord

and the four

if you just use these three chords you can play with most songs


when you get more advance you can use the 2 5 1
as a little intro to each new chord you will play

so to introduce the one chord you play 2 5 and then 1

when you want to go to the four chord
you introduce it by
playing a 2 5 1 in the key of the 4 chord

so if you were in the key of
C and you want to go to the F

you introduce the F by playing g min7 C7
Fmaj

2 5 1

so now you have it 2 5 1 are derived from 4 5 1
and they have over time become embellishments
as well  static chords to rest on  to support the melody

I have Jamal Hartwell's Urban Extreme and it is indeed a very COMPLEX dvd set to say the least. It is definitely not for beginners. I also agree with you diverse on the fact that you have to be willing to stick to something in order to get results.


I didnt see it as complex
but hat is because I realized that a lot of what he was saying didnt make real sense
the chords were beautiful
but a lot of the terminology was incorrect
like the major chord on steroids was in reality a minor 11 chord not a major chord at all
and could not be used a s a major chord

the di tone was really an altered seventh chord

what I did was just watch and practice along with the dvd
from the beginning everytime I watched it until I was playing along with him note for note everything he did



To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline momuzik

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
  • Gender: Male

... all this may seem confusing ...

May??

I believe I read that Jamal is coming out with a new DVD that explains this number system. I'd like to get it so I can keep up with what you all are talking about.

I can tell you that when I play some of the chords from his "Urban Worship", I always get an "ooh I like that" response.

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

May??

I believe I read that Jamal is coming out with a new DVD that explains this number system. I'd like to get it so I can keep up with what you all are talking about.

I can tell you that when I play some of the chords from his "Urban Worship", I always get an "ooh I like that" response.
I'm going to assume that you drive. With that said, there are TWO ways of getting from Point A (say, you're house) to Point B (say, you're job).

Way #1: The direct route (fewer lights, nothing to see, no traffic, etc)

This way gets you to basic core of a song: The 1, 4, 5, 1 of a song. MOST songs have this direct route.

Way #2: The scenic route (may be some lights, not in a rush to get to work, pretty sights along the way, etc)

This way gets you to the core of a song, it's just a more interesting way of getting there.


That's what the 2-5-1 is; a more interesting way of getting to Point B (the end of a song).

So, instead of say going DIRECTLY from the 1 (the first chord of a song) to the 4 (let's say it's the second chord of the song) you decide to take the scenic route (using the 2-5-1).

Now, I can imagine your question: From where am I getting the 2-5-1 chords? That's where your knowledge of scales comes in; and, if you don't have THAT knowledge: STOP. RIGHT. HERE!

If you do, then I'll be back later to try to expound simply, but, further.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline Fenix

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12085
  • Gender: Male

I have made it a point not to buy anymore DVDs until i finish teh ones i am working on. IN fact, i am not buying anymore music books until i am through with the ones i have. There was a time i would buy a book, skim through, buy another, skim through...i was getting nowhere fast.

Right now i have a book on scales, chord progressions and the Hanon. I also bought Donnie McClurkin's "The Essential D.MClurkin" and i am currently playing through the songs so i can get a feel for playing in different keys.
The car, job, house wife/husband are not the reward, God is.

Offline momuzik

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
  • Gender: Male

I'm going to assume that you drive. With that said, there are TWO ways of getting from Point A (say, you're house) to Point B (say, you're job).

Way #1: The direct route (fewer lights, nothing to see, no traffic, etc)

This way gets you to basic core of a song: The 1, 4, 5, 1 of a song. MOST songs have this direct route.

Way #2: The scenic route (may be some lights, not in a rush to get to work, pretty sights along the way, etc)

This way gets you to the core of a song, it's just a more interesting way of getting there.


That's what the 2-5-1 is; a more interesting way of getting to Point B (the end of a song).

So, instead of say going DIRECTLY from the 1 (the first chord of a song) to the 4 (let's say it's the second chord of the song) you decide to take the scenic route (using the 2-5-1).

Now, I can imagine your question: From where am I getting the 2-5-1 chords? That's where your knowledge of scales comes in; and, if you don't have THAT knowledge: STOP. RIGHT. HERE!

If you do, then I'll be back later to try to expound simply, but, further.

I can follow your example, but I'm not sure what the 1 chord consists of, the 2 etc...
See I've been playing for my church going on 5 years now. I'm sure I've played some of these progression not knowing which was the 1-4-5 or the 2-5-1 or whatever.
I was taught to play mostly from learning certain patterns that are common to a lot of gospel music. I'm pretty sure these patterns were 1-4-5-, 2-5-1, and so forth but my instructor didn't teach me the number part (maybe he didn't know).

Offline musiqisme26

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2856
  • Gender: Male
  • Yaron MusicCo. Gospels Fresh Sound!

Kevin Conley (K.C.) probaly has the best all-around wheatworks dvd ever made as there is something any player, at any level can get something out of it

Offline diverse379

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2084
  • Gender: Male
  • Players Govern Players Spectators Form Opinions

May??

I believe I read that Jamal is coming out with a new DVD that explains this number system. I'd like to get it so I can keep up with what you all are talking about.

I can tell you that when I play some of the chords from his "Urban Worship", I always get an "ooh I like that" response.

I agree I have the extreme and I get the same thing

if you use them sparingly it is always a surprise
reaction

or a knowing nod.

To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

I can follow your example, but I'm not sure what the 1 chord consists of, the 2 etc...
See I've been playing for my church going on 5 years now. I'm sure I've played some of these progression not knowing which was the 1-4-5 or the 2-5-1 or whatever.
I was taught to play mostly from learning certain patterns that are common to a lot of gospel music. I'm pretty sure these patterns were 1-4-5-, 2-5-1, and so forth but my instructor didn't teach me the number part (maybe he didn't know).

What do you mean by, 'consists of'? If you're saying you don't know what notes or type of chord is to be played with the 1 chord, then that's easy enough.

Let me know.
Kevin Conley (K.C.) probaly has the best all-around wheatworks dvd ever made as there is something any player, at any level can get something out of it

COSIGN. I recently purchased it and my summer shall be spent digesting the SNOT outta this DVD.

I do wish, when he does a second DVD, he'd spend more time breaking things down and breaking them DOWN, SLOWLY.

The trouble with creative folks: When they start to "feel" what they're teacing they take off and run and leave us novices behind. :-\
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline under13

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16438
  • Gender: Male

The trouble with creative folks: When they start to "feel" what they're teacing they take off and run and leave us novices behind. :-\


Thats not a bad thing to me, cuz in the future when you are at an advanced level, you can go back to the dvd and learn something new. You also have to work on learning the things that arent broken down, because we cant always rely on people breaking stuff down. Yeah, it may be hard and it wont sound exactly like the player, but it will help your development. Thats one the differences between Intermediates and advanced players.

Kevin Conley (K.C.) probaly has the best all-around wheatworks dvd ever made as there is something any player, at any level can get something out of it


I'm ordering this right now. I'm not much of a theory guy, but I have to admit, the number system makes it a lot easier to learn.
I can follow your example, but I'm not sure what the 1 chord consists of, the 2 etc...
See I've been playing for my church going on 5 years now. I'm sure I've played some of these progression not knowing which was the 1-4-5 or the 2-5-1 or whatever.
I was taught to play mostly from learning certain patterns that are common to a lot of gospel music. I'm pretty sure these patterns were 1-4-5-, 2-5-1, and so forth but my instructor didn't teach me the number part (maybe he didn't know).


Check these out

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,53939.0.html

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php?action=search2

Offline diverse379

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2084
  • Gender: Male
  • Players Govern Players Spectators Form Opinions

some really good advice in this post

Sjonathon does a great job of providing a great analogy


fenix says he will buy no more Dvd's or books

I cant say I blame him

but I will say dont be so hard on yourself

I utilize all my books at one time or another

and I dont regret buying any of them

because there is so much to this music thing
there is always something new to learn

as we get older we grow wiser

and maybe as your advance your needs change and so your library has to expand to grow with you

but I am not trying to throw you off your game

study hard but if you find your self geting to a rut
by all means buy a new book or dvd

To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline Fenix

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12085
  • Gender: Male

some really good advice in this post

Sjonathon does a great job of providing a great analogy


fenix says he will buy no more Dvd's or books

I cant say I blame him

but I will say dont be so hard on yourself

I utilize all my books at one time or another

and I dont regret buying any of them

because there is so much to this music thing
there is always something new to learn

as we get older we grow wiser

and maybe as your advance your needs change and so your library has to expand to grow with you

but I am not trying to throw you off your game

study hard but if you find your self geting to a rut
by all means buy a new book or dvd



Yeah thanks. It started to get a bit discouraging. I think i just have to settle on a practice routine.
The car, job, house wife/husband are not the reward, God is.

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

Thats not a bad thing to me, cuz in the future when you are at an advanced level, you can go back to the dvd and learn something new. You also have to work on learning the things that arent broken down, because we cant always rely on people breaking stuff down. Yeah, it may be hard and it wont sound exactly like the player, but it will help your development. Thats one the differences between Intermediates and advanced players.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. ;)
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

Yeah thanks. It started to get a bit discouraging. I think i just have to settle on a practice routine.

You and me both, chief.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up