Ah man that was rude for you to tell him that when yo dusty tail just startin out!! thats just like tellin twinkie not to do a studio project....yea i didnt get that one either.....but in other words get some respect and let the man beforeal thats not kool!
Ah man that was rude for you to tell him that when yo dusty tail just startin out!! thats just like tellin twinkie not to do a studio project....yea i didnt get that one either.....but in other words get some respect and let the man be
foreal thats not kool!
A Pastor from another church asked me to come play the drums for him on Good Friday, because his drummer couldn't. I went.
Toward the end of the service, his guitar player was playing the keys. After service was over I said: "man you need to stop all that transposing!" But I said it PLAYFULLY.
You see, he's one of those guys who can ONLY play in C, and Transposes to everything else.
Homeboy lost it.
"There's nothing wrong with transposing! Some big-time musicians on tour transpose!"
"Man, you just started playing music. I've been playing for years."
Homeboy said I disrespected him. He even told my Pastor that he'll never play with me again. That if I walked into their church and got on the drums, he'd pack up and leave. ::)
What a baby.
But it brought up a question......
How many of you think it's ok to transpose? I've only been playing for a few months, and I'm busting my butt to learn how to play in every key because I'm learning the Organ. MOST Organs don't have transpose buttons.
Do you think it's ok to transpose? If so, why?
First of all, I was kidding! I wasn't attacking him.
Secondly, by comparing telling someone who ONLY PLAYS IN C not to transpose, to telling Twinkie not to do a studio project, you're clearly not thinking straight.
But I can read music either! So am i a loser too? I can play in all 12 keys and left handed on organ with some chords but does that make me a loser like the other person said in another post?
I would not have told him how I felt about him transposing, even if I wasn't serious...
Everyone who transpose, is a loser. Straight-up! You cheating yourself, and disrespecting musicians who took the time to learn each key. Transposer can't read, thus selling him/herself short.I thought this site was for leaning and encouraging fellow musicians in the lord not resulting in calling your brothers and sister in christ losers I joined LGM to learn and fellowship with other muscians in Christ, how about telling that person to pray and ask Go to help them in thier playing instead of calling them a loser or lazy, God Bless You and God Bless everyone on this site.
Try this
Give a transposer sheet-music of a song that modulates, then ask his/her to play it on the organ.
Stop transposing .... its lazy, and weak.
im gonna use my transpose button tomorrow
I thought this site was for leaning and encouraging fellow musicians in the lord not resulting in calling your brothers and sister in christ losers I joined LGM to learn and fellowship with other muscians in Christ, how about telling that person to pray and ask Go to help them in thier playing instead of calling them a loser or lazy, God Bless You and God Bless everyone on this site.
I think my signature says it al:REAL MUSICIANS PLAY IN EVERY KEY!!!
First post, bear with me...
Church organists should be about MINISTRY. If somebody sings a song in E I will not sit there and struggle just to adhere to my personal lack of ability. If it's a choir song and something that I have worked on then it is unexcusable for me to transpose, but the holy spirit is spontaneous and doesn't adjust to the music so I believe we should do all that we can to adjust to the spirit.
I do what I've got to do to get the job done, although it's no excuse for hard work.
BTW I don't transpose...usually. ;)
Transpose in your mind not with the flick of a button.
I would also like to say that the guy who start this topic was out of order, even if you were just joking. The fact of the matter is you did not know him like that to make that comment.
The only acceptable time to use transpose is if it is up or down an octave. Sometimes you have to transpose a keyboard up an octave to get the very high sounds, and sometimes you need to transpose an octave lower to get those deep bass sounds. Other than that, don't ever, ever, ever use it.There's also another use for it: if you are learning a song off a CD and you know you'll be playing it in another key. For instance, last week I was practicing "Nothing Else Matters" (in C on the CD), but I knew that the singer would sing it in Eb. So I transposed 3 semitones away (ie down) and played in Eb together with the CD in C. I consider that acceptable too ;D.
I have another thought to share. Ask yourself this question, would God send me to Hell because I called someone a loser and told them they are not a reali musician or would it be the man/woman who transposed? The Bible said to love your neighbor. I don't think calling someone a loser is loving your neigbor. Also consider that telling a newbie that he/she is a loser and not a real musician because they tranpose might discourage them from even playing ever again. Like someone said earlier, that's not constructive criticism, that's pretty much butchering them. It might work in the world but this is church. Church is assembling together to worship God in song and in the Word, not about performance and formalities. I'll repeat what someone said once..."a 3 inch tongue can destroy a 6 foot man".Amen Brother Spoken like a Minister of Music. :D
in defense of those that do transpose , They might be like me and not have the time to actually sit down and perfect their craft( I put my time in and praticed in all the keys when I didn't have babies and a wife). I joke all the time with people I know that transpose but in Love I also show them little tidbits they can pratice so they don't have to use that button. How old was this guy that got a little upset at you? personally I would use what you said as a Movation to get betta but some people don't think like me.
This is a funny issue. I started playin in January 05. I wanted to play the keyboard/piano so that I could transpose. I was just learning and I came from the drums. Others had did it and I wanted to. But an older musician caught wind of this trend and informed my uncle/pastor not to buy a board until I learn every key. So i just woul practice the keys i had to on the organ. As our church began to sing in different keys I'd go home in learn them. So, a year and a half later, we JUST got a Triton. But it seems like that guy is just a little sensitive if he's beefin over you sayin that. My boy transposes and i get at him all the time and he jut laughs it off
Wow where was I when this jumped off
well yall know i got a comment first to your Rhitaki you pused some buttons that day brother was already self conscious a lot of musicians have serious insecurities not your fault you didnt mean to offend him but lesson learned
when you play with someone let the first thing be some type of compliment i enjoyed playing with
if you didnt say just intoduce yourself
that way you avoid the high strung weirdness you experienced
any way
to the question
transposing does hurt you in the long run
in emergencies i have used the transpose button I played a new B3 for two years and i may have used the transpose button twice
but at my new church I have already used it twice in two weeks last week expecially
why?
well because i did not want to be a distraction to the service while I backed the Bishop up in the key of F#
Real musicians do play in every key and transposing does cripple you if you use it as a crutch but i have used it in emergencies as I get myself together in all keys
sometimes the ministry and your survival depend on you doing what has to be done
but rest assured next sunday i will be knowing how to play preacher chords in F#
Your practice should include some sort of key regimin drill to aquaint you with all the keys
i learn to play songs in various keys so I have some exposure to them all
therre are still some keys I am stronger in then others and if push came to shove and the my butt was riding on what I played next and someone wanted to do some crazy hard song that i knew well in Db but couldnt play in A and shirley ceasar got up and started singing in A I might just go to that transpose button
I aint gonna die because i cheated once I dont make a habit of it and I work everyday to better my musician ship including playing in all twelve keys but sometimes a minister of music has to ensure that the music is as good as it can be and if that means hitting a button to make sure the best performance is heard then so be it
i make no apologies for my remarks and I in no way feel ashamed
And I do not intend to make the button my friend but it is a life saver at times
Seems that this is a touchy subject. I just would like to state for the record that I DO TRANSPOSE. But if I am using a board that doesn't have that function I can deal with it. I think we forget that it is not about the ability, it all about the anointing. Once the anointing takes effect all other opinions about whether transposing is okay or not are minute.
If you really want to learn how to play in every key, play the organ during service. You cant transpose!! You can fake though, and i promise you that you will go home every sunday learning a different key, because someone tried to sing in that key, or changed keys on you. That's how you learn
It depends on if you transpose or not. What we are talking about here is people who have to tranpose EACH and EVERY song because they can only play in one key. They can't or won't take the time to learn to play in every key, and they become dependent on that button for them to play.
For those of you who don't use transpose, don't start because it is like an addiction. It becomes easier and easier to hit that button, and at the same time it becomes harder and harder to actually sit down and become a REAL musician by learning every key.
The only acceptable time to use transpose is if it is up or down an octave. Sometimes you have to transpose a keyboard up an octave to get the very high sounds, and sometimes you need to transpose an octave lower to get those deep bass sounds. Other than that, don't ever, ever, ever use it.
I am an encourager and I hope that you will not take the "easy" way out and cheat yourself out to knowledge! I'm a L.A.T. (Levite Against Transposing.....ROTF) I just learned what that was...but seriously, just keep practicing and ask questions of those who are experienced or seasoned ;D
I would bet that if a church would hear a keyboardist play and he / she tore it up every Sunday no matter what key they were in, they would not care if the transpose button was used and quite frankly, neither does God.
... I'm a L.A.T. (Levite Against Transposing.....ROTF) ...
Welcome to the family.
For all of you who are MDs or MOMs, would you hire me if I could on play in 3 keys?
One hint for becoming a L.A.T. Stop thinking of music in terms of 12 keys and starting thinking about 88.
In HIS service and yours,
Ralph D. Moore
[url]http://www.sottm.com[/url]
P.S. THE holiday CD you must have is at [url]http://www.cdbaby.com/ralphmoore2[/url]
Welcome to the LGM family "Shopharim".....Be Blessed.Thank you. Glad to be in the number.
PianoWiz...
Thank you. Glad to be in the number.
'sup Runs?
Spar-ROOOOOOOOOW
First of all, I was kidding! I wasn't attacking him.
Secondly, by comparing telling someone who ONLY PLAYS IN C not to transpose, to telling Twinkie not to do a studio project, you're clearly not thinking straight.
Some ppl just use the transpose button b/c it makes them comfortable until they believe that they can fluently play in every key.
I truly believe EVERY musician has used the transpose button some time or another
Do you really believe that?? :)
I will ask the "Trumpet player" does he transpose next time I see him. :D
Do you really believe that?? :)
I will ask the "Trumpet player" does he transpose next time I see him. :D
I truly believe EVERY musician has used the transpose button some time or another,
I was sitting here thinking:
Musicians that transpose are like athletes that use Steroids. From the outside they look the same, but actually they have an unfair advantage. :)
Maybe there should be a sanctioning body to help regular this. :D
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!
NICE Metaphor..
Transposing is taking the easy way out. You not really learning or growing much cuz u stuck using the same keys. Most transposers ONLY play on keyboards cuz they know if u put them on a piano or organ, they garbage.
Playing in all keys is hard and not everybody is willing to put in the time and work it takes to accomplish this. The average keyboard player in this day and time is lazy and impatient. I commend all those who serious bout their craft and put in the time and dedication it takes to learn to play in every key.
I beg to differ. My dad plays the keyboard and he has never used transpose in his life. He didn't even know what the transpose button was until I told him about it.
I beg to differ too. I have never used that button and never will. My Aunt has been playing the organ and Piano for about 40 years and she has Never used one either!!! So everybody does not use it. I can say that I play with a muscian that uses it and it is annoying when they for get to change back!! >:(
It's one thing to use the Transpose when somebody gets up and starts singing Total Praise, in a service, in a key you don't know. It's another thing to sit in REHEARSAL and Transpose because you have no real intention of learning.I love challenges like that! I may play the song in it's orginial key but when you play for someone else and they are in another key, man I can do something with it, especially when I never practice it in other keys. I feel that I don't ahve to because I know my progressions to these songs and no matter what key you are in, it's the same numbers, jusr different keys!
Oh, and my wife and I went to another church for a concert they were having, and I got on the Organ to accompany her when they asked her for a selection.
The song she sang: Total Praise....in F#.
She did NOT tell me she was going to sing this. It was a little rough the first time through(I'll admit it), but after that it was smooth sailing.
It's a beautiful thing to see a great player just switch seamlessly to different keys without missing a beat. That's where I want to get.
I was sitting here thinking:
Musicians that transpose are like athletes that use Steroids.
From the outside they look the same, but actually they have an unfair advantage. :)
Maybe there should be a sanctioning body to help regular this. :D
How many people here can read musical notation?
One thing that I don't understand is a person who has been playing for a long time using transpose for every single doggone song.
I can. Sheet music, playing by ear, it don't matter to me. I don't like people who transpose, but I do understand them. One thing that I don't understand is a person who has been playing for a long time using transpose for every single doggone song. That is just pathethic. And I run into musicians all the time who transpose every song.
I just watched a TBN special with Stevie Wonder singing and he says lets got to D, every musician except the Bass and drums dropped out of the song. >:(
Okay this is getting sickening. :( I just saw one of my (use to be) favorite board players on a DVD playing everything in C# even the song that was in Ab. I was braggin on this guy too, because his placement is so tasteful. Im wondering if he transposed for recording purposes. Either way im sick. >:( I learned a song with a keyboard solo that I heard him do supposedly in A. It took me a minute to get it too. But now im thinking that he may have cheated. >:( I just watched a TBN special with Stevie Wonder singing and he says lets got to D, every musician except the Bass and drums dropped out of the song. >:( Learn yours keys John Brownit!! >:(
I can see that happening if you've only been playing for a year or two, but I'd ASSUME the guys playing on TBN are professionals. That's a shame. :-[
You can witness it here. Here is the link. I still enjoyed the perfomance cause Stevie is my dude and I absolutely love playing this song. Check out his scales on the Harmonnica. Despite the small discrepancy, its still great to watch Stevie go all the way in. ;)
[url]http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=86faab11f648a07867d8[/url]
You can witness it here. Here is the link.
[url]http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=86faab11f648a07867d8[/url]
Welcome to the family.
For all of you who are MDs or MOMs, would you hire me if I could on play in 3 keys?
One hint for becoming a L.A.T. Stop thinking of music in terms of 12 keys and starting thinking about 88.
In HIS service and yours,
Ralph D. Moore
[url]http://www.sottm.com[/url]
P.S. THE holiday CD you must have is at [url]http://www.cdbaby.com/ralphmoore2[/url]
How many people here can read musical notation?
How many play by ear only?
How many of you have to be SHOWN how to do something because you can't read music?
B3wannabe made a valid point... If you cannot pickup sheet music and play it, then you really have no business harping about "Learning your Craft" here... Fair is fair afterall... While someone's strengths may be in playing in twelve keys 'by ear'. I can do the same by notation... I sometimes need help the the gospel area because it is so new and the Voicings are so different... I would like to see how many are willing to throw stones at others when they themselves are standing in glass houses....
If you played keys or organ, NO I would not hire you. I would not allow the house to suffer in my absence. I had an organist audtition for me this past Sunday that could only play in C. We have the original B3 with tubes in it, and a starter. :D
I sometimes shed with a Jazz Fake Book and more recently a Hymn book. I had to cut back on the Hanon excercises because I got addicted to them and almost tore my hands up. I dont transpose, I never have. Im from the school of hard knocks where there was no Praise Team or rehearsals, just Devotional service. And you had to know your keys, if somebody started singing "What a Mighty God" in A. :P
I never asked to be shown something because I couldnt read. For 5 years I was at a church with a full band, horns and flutes and I was the only one that couldnt read music. The MD would look at me and say dont worry you'll get this. A lot of times they looked to me for help because gospel sheet music dont show you everything and its not always accurate. At first it was a compliment because my ear was that good. But watching them during musician rehearsals walking back and forth with their highlighters, shiny sharpened #2 pencils tucked behind their ears, making notes on their sheet music, talking their "little conceited sheet music talk" all over my head ;D ;D LOL made me feel left out......... and unprofessional. :( So I learned to read :).....................................th en they started hating. >:(
....I can play in Ab.....so when the organist doesnt show...I can hop on and blow it up!....but outside of that I need the transpose button. I am not trying to play in every key!....I can just play really well in one key and transpose to the rest.
Like someone said earlier Transposing is a tool. If there was something wrong with it then why were they made in keyboard, and now organs. I never heard anyone complain about a drummer with a double pedal. So I cannot see transposing as cheating.
Remember man, not everything man-made is good. I seriously doubt that the person who put transposing on keyboards meant it the way a lot of people use it now. Transposing is cheating man. It may be acceptable, it may be used to keep the service going, etc. but it is still cheating. That is an undeniable FACT. ;):)
Also, I do have a problem with a drummer using a double pedal only if they can't double on a single pedal. To me, the act of using a double pedal is good because it is strengthening both feet. Therefore, a drummer is able to use all body parts to play drums, LOL.
this subject never gets old ;)i know right
I personally think transpose can help u get better at times,say u know a song in eb,but u can't really play it in d or e I would transpose from those keys and play it in e or d but the song would be in Eb...isn't this actually good...nebody with me?
No I'm Sorry thats not good it maes you lazy.....but if thats you thats you im not encouraging or discouragingKinda of like using spellcheckers makes you a lazy speller.
but the thing I have found works the best for me
is to create a basic style
I'm glad the thread I started so long ago has gotten so much feedback.
Again, I play an old A-100 and thank GOD there's no transpose.
Simply put, who's a BETTER MUSICIAN:
One who's able to learn a song and immediately play it in every key because he understands and hears intervals?
Or one who learns a song in the original key and MUST use transpose?
Of course the first guy is better. So if you're the second guy right now, that doesn't mean you're not good. It doesn't mean you're lazy...unless you don't WANT to be the first guy.
Don't justify using the Transpose, because there are people who have been playing for 10+ years and STILL transpose.
Just work until you don't HAVE to use the transpose.
Doesn't that make sense?
With all the energy that has been expended on this thread, has anyone started a thread to help people learn a new key? How about someone jumping in a starting a Key a week thread? Post tunes, post worksheets or chord progressions or scale patterns to help get your key challenged brothers and sisters out of their ruts? I place this back in your court...
hmmm... semantics....
I still say that all of this talk is the kettle calling the pot black, so to speak. There are many talents in music. Some people can actually read music. There is nothing written that you can place in front of them that they cannot play... They are BRILLIANT, VIRTUOSIC even as players... Turn out the lights and the music stops.... Then you have others that can play by ear. They can play anything under the sun as long as it is by ear. Place a piece of sheet music in front of them and tell them to play it as written and the music STOPS. Both musicians can tear it up in all twelve keys. Both musicians allow their own personal egos to swell to the point that they truly BELIEVE that all it takes to truly be ALL THAT in music is to play in twelve keys. Neither really get the true meaning of what music is about. So focused are they on their own internal greatness that they miss the big picture. Music does not need either of them to continue... Music choses its own instruments. The five year old girl giving her first piano lesson, the 85 year old man singing praises to God. Music choses its own way to comunicate, Man places ego there to complicate things.
I allowed myself to get wrapped up in the other thread about transposing here on this site. I prayed about how all of this made me feel. How some of the comments made me feel and how I thought threads likes these fit into a site that was here to help people learn.
Many here sit in the comfort of our homes or offices dealing armchair judgements to people that we have never seen, heard or met. To claim superiority to another in this venue is vain at the least and egotistical for sure. All we really have here is a group of 'fantasy' contacts that fling ideas around. I would love to see all this energy actually go towards helping people LEARN something instead of dealing out judgements. With all the energy that has been expended on this thread, has anyone started a thread to help people learn a new key? How about someone jumping in a starting a Key a week thread? Post tunes, post worksheets or chord progressions or scale patterns to help get your key challenged brothers and sisters out of their ruts? I place this back in your court...
I would love to see all this energy actually go towards helping people LEARN something instead of dealing out judgements. With all the energy that has been expended on this thread, has anyone started a thread to help people learn a new key? How about someone jumping in a starting a Key a week thread?Well said.
Well said.:D :D :D :D :D :D
May the Lord watch....... :D
I would love to see all this energy actually go towards helping people LEARN something instead of dealing out judgements. With all the energy that has been expended on this thread, has anyone started a thread to help people learn a new key? How about someone jumping in a starting a Key a week thread? Post tunes, post worksheets or chord progressions or scale patterns to help get your key challenged brothers and sisters out of their ruts? I place this back in your court...
I am talking about someone creating a lesson by lesson tutorial from the ground up, but hey maybe it is easier to just complain and posture.There might be some that get a kick out of making folks feel like less than musicians because they transpose or have transposed. I wouldn't worry about it.
I am talking about someone creating a lesson by lesson tutorial from the ground up, but hey maybe it is easier to just complain and posture.
No worries from me here. Y'all carry on this debate for another 20 pages.
Toodles.
Wolf
There might be some that get a kick out of making folks feel like less than musicians because they transpose or have transposed. I wouldn't worry about it.
Why are you guys so sensitive. ?/?
You know how musicians are.Similar to black folks. ;)
Similar to black folks. ;)
So this is where you hang out, lol!
Talk about posturing. sheesh.
Not sure who this is referring to. Since when is saying "if you transpose, practice till you don't have to" an insult?
I'm not the best musician in the world, but I practiced till I didn't have to transpose. I can play in every key. Not like John Peters or Quennel Gaskin, but I can play in all 12 with proficiency.
There's a difference between encouragement and insults.
What I said is that if you're still transposing after 10 years because you can only play in THREE KEYS, then you need to practice until you don't have to.
Why are you guys so sensitive. ?/?
So this is where you hang out, lol!
Shhhhhh! Don't tell nobody! :D*yells*Mama, RJ over here talkin' bout Transposing!!!
oh ok I get your point :P I never heard of someone doing that but it slightly makes since
Man, we just had a long, heated discussion on this very topic here: [url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,57248.0.html[/url] ([url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,57248.0.html[/url])
I am talking about someone creating a lesson by lesson tutorial from the ground up, but hey maybe it is easier to just complain and posture.
U never heard of someone doing that, I give u Exhibit A (click on the link):
I got something like that in the works man. Check the Gospel Music Hangout area in the future and see if u or anyone else can help me out with it. ;)
My goodness. Why is this such a hot button topic? ?/?I think it is a serious topic for several reasons
I'm heading to the drummers room. Drummers don't bother with transposing...
I think it is a serious topic for several reasons
lets look at some of them
elitist/commandos
this group has worked hard to develop their multi key facility and rue the day that musicians who can only play in one key can garner the same attention and praise they do
after all they went to the such and such music school or whatever
they look down their nose at anyone who has chosen to take the easy road out
concerned musicians
some musicians like t-block and maybe even myself
feel that it is important to have all key facility
for the musician and for the ministry to flourish
insecure musicians
if you are one of these than you know in your heart you have been skating you know when you go to a new church to perform you are hoping they have a keyboard
or you are forced to bring yours along becuase you have mastered the transpose button
you cringe when you see a piano or a hammond
haters
these are cats that just dont like to see others ahead of them
if they cant play in all keys they dont like having their face rubbed in it
if they do play in all keys they hate to see someone who cant get paid for their talent or lack there of
there are probably other categories but I cannot think of any right now
Wait, a transposer is a dude that wears womens' clothes right?
Nope, thats a cross-dresser.i cant believe you answered that fenix
i cant believe you answered that fenix
(shaking my head in dismay) you have much to learn my young friend
:) :)
Wait, a transposer is a dude that wears womens' clothes right?
I remember my C days hahahaha!!!!!
A lot of musicians have C (or whatever key) years, u should be greatful, LOL. :D
Again, some of you are mad
So, what's dat supposed to mean? ?/?