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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: LaylaMonroe on September 25, 2009, 02:28:43 PM
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I tell you ain't NOBODY gon cry loud and spare not like the late Pastor Nathan Simmons...
Good Lord...
*WARNINGS* He uses the "n" word, and there's some subject matter in there I know some will disagree with (re: secular music).
Agree or disagree, this is a good example of what prophets do. Prophets don't just predict houses and cars and millionnaire status. Prophets issue warnings and foretell of judgment that is to come, even if they gotta tell on themselves... whew. This is a heavy one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viM0SWBg4xI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viM0SWBg4xI)
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http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,67267.0.html (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,67267.0.html)
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Ummmm, needless to say, I don't frequent the Organ Room... lol. And when I do, I don't open threads that say "Attention Musicians: PLEASE READ" because... well... you know... I'm not a musician. LOL!
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I LOVE Nathan Simmons. That was a true man of God.
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Ummmm, needless to say, I don't frequent the Organ Room... lol. And when I do, I don't open threads that say "Attention Musicians: PLEASE READ" because... well... you know... I'm not a musician. LOL!
I know, I was just posting so people who dont frequent the organ room could read the responses. I'm sure you will get different answers and opinions here in the lounge....especially from non musicians...like yourself :D..... 8)
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I know, I was just posting so people who dont frequent the organ room could read the responses. I'm sure you will get different answers and opinions here in the lounge....especially from non musicians...like yourself :D..... 8)
Oh ok, in that case: thanks. And for the record, don't be calling me a non-musician. Only I can say that.
I do play the drums. **neck roll and ::)**
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He said some powerful stuff. But some other things..... :-\
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He said some powerful stuff. But some other things..... :-\
With all due respect to the late Supt. Simmons, that is the sum total of his ministry. It's his legacy. What you said right there sums it all up.
I've heard him say some things with my two ears that I could never repeat, partially because I still don't believe I heard it. LOL! But seriously, dude was just plain raw.
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I watched it again. Honestly, I agree with some of what he said but the music things sounds off base to me. you're telling me that people arent being delivered etc, because the musicians incorporate jazz? ?/? Dont even get me started.
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I watched it again. Honestly, I agree with some of what he said but the music things sounds off base to me. you're telling me that people arent being delivered etc, because the musicians incorporate jazz? ?/? Dont even get me started.
Man, I initially typed:
"Devils aren't being cast out because my chords are too jazzy? ok."
Then deleted it and settled on my other post instead.
Is there a spirit in that chord? ?/?
Is there a demonic force that's activated when I play a certain run? ?/?
Is God's delivering power only accessible when I play a 1-4-5 progression? ?/?
*sigh*
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Well....since the "tritone" was called the "Devil's interval", maybe anyone that uses it or chords with tritones in them, like Dominant7th, are unwittingly instruments of the devil.
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Yeah, I didn't know what to make of that part, either. But, I've heard many preachers say similar things. I think it can somewhat be explained in a way that makes a little more sense (though it won't change anyone's opinion), but I don't have the clarity of thought right now to put in my two cents.
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Well....since the "tritone" was called the "Devil's interval", maybe anyone that uses it or chords with tritones in them, like Dominant7th, are unwittingly instruments of the devil.
Wow...I never heard that term before. I just Googled it and was floored. The "Brooklyn" style of organ playing is built on the tritone...interesting.
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Wow...I never heard that term before. I just Googled it and was floored. The "Brooklyn" style of organ playing is built on the tritone...interesting.
Someone simply didn't like the dissonant sound of the tritone and gave it that label.
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Someone simply didn't like the dissonant sound of the tritone and gave it that label.
Doesn't the bible say that God is not the author of confusion (discord/dissonance)?
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Doesn't the bible say that God is not the author of confusion (discord/dissonance)?
Are you reaching intentionally or are you serious?
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Are you reaching intentionally or are you serious?
Thats what I said when I saw the clip.
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Are you reaching intentionally or are you serious?
What do you think? :)
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What do you think? :)
Dude, you know I never can tell with you... lol. I think you may have been serious, but I'm not sure... :-\
Thats what I said when I saw the clip.
Oh, I can assure you he was dead serious.
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He told the truth. He didn't say anything that we didn't already know, he just said it out loud. With some of us, it doesn't matter until someone else or someone in particular says it.
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Dude, you know I never can tell with you... lol. I think you may have been serious, but I'm not sure... :-\
:) I usually like it that way too! :)
Our realtor would always stare at me when we were searching for a house. When my wife would say "Ohhh! I like this!" I'd be like :-\. She finally said that she couldn't read me.
I told one Marine at work that the reason his Internet was moving slow is because "Army" packets have priority. I told him that all Army data is given a higher QOS (quality of service), since we're on an Army base. He was like >:( >:(
...then I LOL'd. ;)
Anyway, I was joking. ;)
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:) I usually like it that way too! :)
I know you do... ::) :D :D :D
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I know you do... ::) :D :D :D
If it's any consolation, even my wife and family can't read me. :) ;D ;D
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I tell you ain't NOBODY gon cry loud and spare not like the late Pastor Nathan Simmons...
Good Lord...
I can't see the video right now but the bold part reminds me of this song. It's probably on topic too!
http://media.imeem.com/m/SgH-zSu7oZ (http://media.imeem.com/m/SgH-zSu7oZ)
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Right now I'm not gonna give an opinion on what he said because I don't remember what he said for one and two I don't have my head phones right now...lol!
But anyway what he did (prophecy speaking) is what we need to get back to. I think we have to balance the focus between telling future things and sending warnings which is what happened a lot in the bible with the prophets.
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What I heard in respect to the music comments was not that the Jazz Chords were evil, but that there are musicians whose goal is to put on a jam session instead of being lead by the spirit and that a Jam Session isn't gonna save someone, but an anoited instrumental can deliver someone......That's just what I heard.
Let's remember that 1 Samuel 18 Saul asked David to play his instrument, not sing, to ease his tormented spirit. So there is a great spiritual component in the music.
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Well....since the "tritone" was called the "Devil's interval", maybe anyone that uses it or chords with tritones in them, like Dominant7th, are unwittingly instruments of the devil.
It that is true, then they can't use dim 7ths either - so there go the Preaching Chords...
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What I heard in respect to the music comments was not that the Jazz Chords were evil, but that there are musicians whose goal is to put on a jam session instead of being lead by the spirit and that a Jam Session isn't gonna save someone, but an anointed instrumental can deliver someone......That's just what I heard.
Let's remember that 1 Samuel 18 Saul asked David to play his instrument, not sing, to ease his tormented spirit. So there is a great spiritual component in the music.
I spent 10 min. yesterday trying to say the very thing you stated so eloquently.
Thank you.
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Yeah, I didn't know what to make of that part, either. But, I've heard many preachers say similar things. I think it can somewhat be explained in a way that makes a little more sense (though it won't change anyone's opinion), but I don't have the clarity of thought right now to put in my two cents.
What I heard in respect to the music comments was not that the Jazz Chords were evil, but that there are musicians whose goal is to put on a jam session instead of being lead by the spirit and that a Jam Session isn't gonna save someone, but an anoited instrumental can deliver someone......That's just what I heard.
Let's remember that 1 Samuel 18 Saul asked David to play his instrument, not sing, to ease his tormented spirit. So there is a great spiritual component in the music.
I spent 10 min. yesterday trying to say the very thing you stated so eloquently.
Thank you.
Me too. (And it's good to know I'm not the only one who experiences that). :D :D
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What I heard in respect to the music comments was not that the Jazz Chords were evil, but that there are musicians whose goal is to put on a jam session instead of being lead by the spirit and that a Jam Session isn't gonna save someone, but an anoited instrumental can deliver someone......That's just what I heard.
Let's remember that 1 Samuel 18 Saul asked David to play his instrument, not sing, to ease his tormented spirit. So there is a great spiritual component in the music.
I think what you said applies to :55 to 3:10. As for what he said after that about incorporating different styles, I dont think it applies......well maybe a little.
In my opinion, if the musicians are trying to jam at the wrong time then why wouldn't the pastor tell them to stop, and educate them on how he wants his music?
So I agree that Musicians Jamming at the wrong time can be a hinderance, but I wouldnt go as far to say that someone could not be saved because the musicians are jamming.
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I think what you said applies to :55 to 3:10. As for what he said after that about incorporating different styles, I dont think it applies......well maybe a little.
In my opinion, if the musicians are trying to jam at the wrong time then why wouldn't the pastor tell them to stop, and educate them on how he wants his music?
So I agree that Musicians Jamming at the wrong time can be a hinderance, but I wouldnt go as far to say that someone could not be saved because the musicians are jamming.
I don't think that's what he was saying at all. I think the point was that a musician's gift used to God's glory with a pure heart can deliver, set free, and break chains... a musician who's not using his gift with a pure heart toward God is... just... sounding good. :-\
There ARE demon spirits that will be arrested by the pure sound of worship, whether we like to believe that or not.
I had more to say, but it exited brain stage left. LOL
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Someone simply didn't like the dissonant sound of the tritone and gave it that label.
If they thought that dominant 7th chords were of the Devil in their pure form, then how about about altered encarntatios such as a 13th/b5? If you really want to get devilish, you need to explore the usage of the diminished scale...that ought to send ya' straight to hell. :) The only way of redemption is to play a G-sus. chord (that's "G-sus" as in "Jesus" chord) and repent of the evil scale which thou hast played. Wither thou playest a G-sus 2 or a G-sus 4, he that chordeth the name of G-sus, shalt be saved!
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If they thought that dominant 7th chords were of the Devil in their pure form, then how about about altered encarntatios such as a 13th/b5? If you really want to get devilish, you need to explore the usage of the diminished scale...that ought to send ya' straight to hell. :) The only way of redemption is to play a G-sus. chord (that's "G-sus" as in "Jesus" chord) and repent of the evil scale which thou hast played. Wither thou playest a G-sus 2 or a G-sus 4, he that chordeth the name of G-sus, shalt be saved!
;D ;D And there you have it.
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'He that chordeth the name of G-sus..' Hmmn..Nice!
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If folks all take the Jazz to heart, I wonder if we'll see a little more color in the White churches?
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I don't think that's what he was saying at all. I think the point was that a musician's gift used to God's glory with a pure heart can deliver, set free, and break chains... a musician who's not using his gift with a pure heart toward God is... just... sounding good. :-\
There ARE demon spirits that will be arrested by the pure sound of worship, whether we like to believe that or not.
Indeed to this whole post, but especially the part in bold.
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I just watched it again (just on a Nathan Simmons kick today), and another point I want to make that I believe is what he was getting at (around that 3:30? mark, I think) is that musicians should be seeking God and spending time in the presence of the Lord to get new material, lyrics, melodies, chords, etc. and not surfing Hot 97 or Kiss FM or Jazz 107 or whatever trying to get new chords. At least that's what it sounded like to me...
I don't think he was saying DON'T listen to jazz or DON'T play jazz, I think he was saying that jazz shouldn't be your source for music intended to set captives free.
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I just watched it again (just on a Nathan Simmons kick today), and another point I want to make that I believe is what he was getting at (around that 3:30? mark, I think) is that musicians should be seeking God and spending time in the presence of the Lord to get new material, lyrics, melodies, chords, etc. and not surfing Hot 97 or Kiss FM or Jazz 107 or whatever trying to get new chords. At least that's what it sounded like to me...
I don't think he was saying DON'T listen to jazz or DON'T play jazz, I think he was saying that jazz shouldn't be your source for music intended to set captives free.
He must not have been a musician ?/?
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Before you read this, PLEASE note that this is just a simple, honest inquiry. I am not presenting this as fact, law, gospel, blasting, calling out or anything...it's just a simple inquiry.
I don't know...I honestly think that the things church folk label "Anointed" are actually just sounds they've been conditioned to really like. I've done some services at Churches that aren't predominantly pentecostal/apostolic or whatever...and the same progressions that would send the Churches that ARE predominantly pentecostal/apostolic into a crazy fit of worship without fail would NEVER fly over there. They'd look at you much in the same manner as if I started playing Waltz in a Pentecostal church. If we all serve the same God, and these chords are 'anointed' by Him...wouldn't they transcend all barriers? It's sort of like Kirk's take on prosperity preaching...if the same prosperity message preached in Atlanta can't be preached in Uganda, is it really the Biblical definition of prosperity?
Like I said...just a question.
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He must not have been a musician ?/?
I have no idea. I can find out, if it matters enough. :-\
Before you read this, PLEASE note that this is just a simple, honest inquiry. I am not presenting this as fact, law, gospel, blasting, calling out or anything...it's just a simple inquiry.
I don't know...I honestly think that the things church folk label "Anointed" are actually just sounds they've been conditioned to really like. I've done some services at Churches that aren't predominantly pentecostal/apostolic or whatever...and the same progressions that would send the Churches that ARE predominantly pentecostal/apostolic into a crazy fit of worship without fail would NEVER fly over there. They'd look at you much in the same manner as if I started playing Waltz in a Pentecostal church. If we all serve the same God, and these chords are 'anointed' by Him...wouldn't they transcend all barriers? It's sort of like Kirk's take on prosperity preaching...if the same prosperity message preached in Atlanta can't be preached in Uganda, is it really the Biblical definition of prosperity?
Like I said...just a question.
Is there a such thing as an "anointed chord" or "anointed progressions"??? I've never heard of such a thing.
I'm not sure I can do any justice to your question, but I think the point here is that there is a sound that can be played by anointed musicians to set captives free, to destroy yokes, to heal, to deliver, to liberate. I don't know if that sound has as much to do with certain chords or progressions as it does with purity of spirit, humility, dedication of the gift to God, and seeking Him in prayer.
And again, I think (in my limited knowledge) that's what Supt. Simmons was getting at.
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If they thought that dominant 7th chords were of the Devil in their pure form, then how about about altered incarnations such as a 13th/b5? If you really want to get devilish, you need to explore the usage of the diminished scale...that ought to send ya' straight to hell. :)
You should have heard that evil Tritone (aug4th/dim5th) in the Baroque era, BEFORE Bach and Co. helped Equal Temperament come into common usage. There was this one tritone, Ab-D I think it was, that musicians called the 'Wolf Tone' because of how it howled...no wonder they called that tuning the 'Mean Tone' scale!!!
:)
I just watched it again (just on a Nathan Simmons kick today), and another point I want to make that I believe is what he was getting at (around that 3:30? mark, I think) is that musicians should be seeking God and spending time in the presence of the Lord to get new material, lyrics, melodies, chords, etc. and not surfing Hot 97 or Kiss FM or Jazz 107 or whatever trying to get new chords. At least that's what it sounded like to me...
I don't think he was saying DON'T listen to jazz or DON'T play jazz, I think he was saying that jazz shouldn't be your source for music intended to set captives free.
Yes - listen, but don't be a slave to different styles of music - inspiration, not imitation...
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I have no idea. I can find out, if it matters enough. :-\
Is there a such thing as an "anointed chord" or "anointed progressions"??? I've never heard of such a thing.
I'm not sure I can do any justice to your question, but I think the point here is that there is a sound that can be played by anointed musicians to set captives free, to destroy yokes, to heal, to deliver, to liberate. I don't know if that sound has as much to do with certain chords or progressions as it does with purity of spirit, humility, dedication of the gift to God, and seeking Him in prayer.
And again, I think (in my limited knowledge) that's what Supt. Simmons was getting at.
:-\
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If folks all take the Jazz to heart, I wonder if we'll see a little more color in the White churches?
**Sigh**
I do sometimes get tired of the raw major and minor sound. I am even getting tired of the sus2 sound Israel is so fond of, with the droning B and E strings ringing out. Its so boring. You will almost NEVER hear an altered chord (in fact you will never hear one) in a Michael W Smith song. One of the few white artists i respect in terms of diversity of music is Don Moen. He occasionally ventures into the blues. ;D
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I am in the "come ye out from among them and be ye separate" camp. I refuse to believe that the God who commands that we "sing a new song" wants us to copy the world. While I agree that chords are chords, I cannot accept that we as anointed saints of the most high God have to copy ANYTHING that the world does. We are to be light and salt to them, they shouldn't be anything but witnessing opportunities to us, in every area. You can witness of God through the music that you play if you allow God to use you explicitly and pour His anointing into what you play/sing. Then the sound of Heaven will fill our temples and folks will be saved and delivered. Remember, Levites, we are praising prophets (1 Chr. 25:1) warring on our instruments, not clowning for the amusement of our homies.
exits stage right----------->
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:-\
As serious as I can sound (while typing), what exactly confuses you about LaRue's post?
It's interesting that we revisit this subject as the facilitator of our Music workshop was making the same points concerning a chord being a chord but it's the purity of spirit(the exact phrase, I promise you) of the musician that can set the captive free, etc.
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As serious as I can sound (while typing), what exactly confuses you about LaRue's post?
It's interesting that we revisit this subject as the facilitator of our Music workshop was making the same points concerning a chord being a chord but it's the purity of spirit(the exact phrase, I promise you) of the musician that can set the captive free, etc.
That's so funny to hear (see) you say (type) that. LOL :D :D :D
But yeah, U13, what don't you get? Or are you just saying you disagree?
I am quite hesitant to wade too deeply into this conversation, as I'm not a musician and I probably can't relate to much of the argument you guys can present. I don't know what dissonant means or sus or major or minor (though I know what minor sounds like... lol). I don't know about chord structure or progressions. I don't know whether church chords are the same as jazz chords or R&B chords. I don't know anything about that kinda stuff. I just know the Bible. And it makes pretty clear that captives can be set free by the playing of music. Other passages show me that it takes a consecrated musician to effect change on a spiritual level; not just a talented one. :-\
On another note, I just found out today is the late Supt. Nathan Simmons' birthday! Maybe that explains why I was listening to him all evening. :-\ :) Anyway, happy birthday, Pastor Simmons!!! ;D
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I don't know what dissonant means
OK i want you to think back to the last time you were in church, and the preacher said something that hit your spirit, and the organist hit a chord at that very moment that made you shout out "Yes Lawd!!" or whatever you shout out when you "feel it". That chord right there is a dissonant chord. :)
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OK i want you to think back to the last time you were in church, and the preacher said something that hit your spirit, and the organist hit a chord at that very moment that made you shout out "Yes Lawd!!" or whatever you shout out when you "feel it". That chord right there is a dissonant chord. :)
?/? ::)
:D You's a wild dude. :D
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God has used unbelievers to do his will throughout the Bible, and I'm sure he can use "unbelieving music" to do the same. He is the Lord of All Creation.
- God used Pharoah to have his heart hardened so that he could inflict the 10 plagues, and allow the Hebrews to take silver and gold when they left Egypt.
- God used the nation of Babylon to teach his people and bring them back to him, and even gave that prophesy to Jeremiah.
- Cyrus King of Persia ordered a Temple to be built in Judah because God had given him the kingdoms of the earth.
- God used Abimelech to teach Abraham, as well as provide for him.
- In the story of Esther, God used Xerxes to save the Jews from destruction.
- Even under captivity, God used the Roman centurions and captors of Paul to carry out his will and message, such as on the boat in the storm.
Yeah, so I think God can use a Jazz chord to do His will, even if people believe it isn't of Him. If He can use the King of Babylon, Pharoah, Abimelech, and Roman Centurions, He can certainly use a dominant 7th chord or wayward muscian to build his kingdom and work His will.
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God has used unbelievers to do his will throughout the Bible, and I'm sure he can use "unbelieving music" to do the same. He is the Lord of All Creation.
- God used Pharoah to have his heart hardened so that he could inflict the 10 plagues, and allow the Hebrews to take silver and gold when they left Egypt.
- God used the nation of Babylon to teach his people and bring them back to him, and even gave that prophesy to Jeremiah.
- Cyrus King of Persia ordered a Temple to be built in Judah because God had given him the kingdoms of the earth.
- God used Abimelech to teach Abraham, as well as provide for him.
- In the story of Esther, God used Xerxes to save the Jews from destruction.
- Even under captivity, God used the Roman centurions and captors of Paul to carry out his will and message, such as on the boat in the storm.
Yeah, so I think God can use a Jazz chord to do His will, even if people believe it isn't of Him. If He can use the King of Babylon, Pharoah, Abimelech, and Roman Centurions, He can certainly use a dominant 7th chord or wayward muscian to build his kingdom and work His will.
If that's the summary of your point, I think you may have missed the point. :-\
No one (or at least not me) is saying that God "can't" use a jazz chord to do His will. I think we all agree that God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants to do whether we agree, understand, or like it. That wasn't the point at all.
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?/? ::)
No, but am i wrong? More often than not, those preacher chords are dissonant chords.
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No, but am i wrong? More often than not, those preacher chords are dissonant chords.
I wouldn't categorize it like that. At the same time, I can't say that a chord made me go, 'Yes, Lord.', either. :-\ :)
BTW, how've you been, bruh?
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Yeah, rarely (if ever) am I moved to exclaim "yes Lord" by a chord.
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I wouldn't categorize it like that. At the same time, I can't say that a chord made me go, 'Yes, Lord.', either. :-\ :)
BTW, how've you been, bruh?
I have been fine. Add me on FB. I command you.
Yeah, rarely (if ever) am I moved to exclaim "yes Lord" by a chord.
Interesting.
A guest guitarist came to our church once and was playing around and such when he hit this chord! The other keyboardist and i went "OUCH!!!!" I literally shivered with pleasure.
I mean this chord was downright sweet!!
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I have been fine. Add me on FB. I command you.
Is your name the same on FB?
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Think David who,without have the quality of books and tutorial videos that today's musicians have still helped Saul with his music.That is anointing.Now,fast forward to 2009 with all the theory knowledge and riffs in his arsenal and you'll still get the same result.I guess the point here is that we as musicians shouldn't neglect the word and personal fellowship for the sole reason of wowing the crowd with our skills.
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Before you read this, PLEASE note that this is just a simple, honest inquiry. I am not presenting this as fact, law, gospel, blasting, calling out or anything...it's just a simple inquiry.
I don't know...I honestly think that the things church folk label "Anointed" are actually just sounds they've been conditioned to really like.
Like I said...just a question.
This is true. As far as I am concrened, there are harmonies and melodies that just elicit a strong emotional reaction in people which is often interpreted as being the anointing or a manifestaiton of "the move of God".
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Think David who,without have the quality of books and tutorial videos that today's musicians have still helped Saul with his music.That is anointing.Now,fast forward to 2009 with all the theory knowledge and riffs in his arsenal and you'll still get the same result.I guess the point here is that we as musicians shouldn't neglect the word and personal fellowship for the sole reason of wowing the crowd with our skills.
Uh. No.
Music has been around for a veeeeeery long time. I'm sure there were book and secular music schools available. The bible doesn't speak how David was trained, so we can't assume.
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No, but am i wrong? More often than not, those preacher chords are dissonant chords.
Hmmm...that's not how I would describe "dissonance" in regards to chords.
Dissonance means "unrest" and dissonant chords are typically unresolved and can sound unpleasant on their own, sort of like laying your forearm across a bunch of white and black keys at the same time.
They don't make me go "Yes, Lawd!", but instead make me go "Please, stop!". ;D
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Uh. No.
Music has been around for a veeeeeery long time. I'm sure there were book and secular music schools available. The bible doesn't speak how David was trained, so we can't assume.
He didn't say there weren't books available, he spoke only to the quality of books. He said that they didn't have the quality of books available that today's musicians have.
On that regard, I'm inclined to agree. As I've said, I don't know the first thing about music, but it's not hard to tell that just about everything has gotten better - or at least more detailed - with time. Our knowledge has evolved. We know more about diseases, about foods, about nature, about computers, about the Word of God, about everything... you name it, we (humankind) pretty much know more about it today than we did 1000-10,000 years ago. I think that's what he was getting at.
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Before you read this, PLEASE note that this is just a simple, honest inquiry. I am not presenting this as fact, law, gospel, blasting, calling out or anything...it's just a simple inquiry.
I don't know...I honestly think that the things church folk label "Anointed" are actually just sounds they've been conditioned to really like. I've done some services at Churches that aren't predominantly pentecostal/apostolic or whatever...and the same progressions that would send the Churches that ARE predominantly pentecostal/apostolic into a crazy fit of worship without fail would NEVER fly over there. They'd look at you much in the same manner as if I started playing Waltz in a Pentecostal church. If we all serve the same God, and these chords are 'anointed' by Him...wouldn't they transcend all barriers? It's sort of like Kirk's take on prosperity preaching...if the same prosperity message preached in Atlanta can't be preached in Uganda, is it really the Biblical definition of prosperity?
Like I said...just a question.
Very good observations and excellent points.!! I have been making these points for years. What we consider 'annointed', 'worldly' or 'dry and uninspiring' has more to do with our cultural background and our personal preferences than we want to believe.
I still find it funny how many people of all different persuasions love to slap a 'God' label on their own personal likes and dislikes and condemn everyone that has different likes/dislikes.
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True dat...
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If that's the summary of your point, I think you may have missed the point. :-\
No one (or at least not me) is saying that God "can't" use a jazz chord to do His will. I think we all agree that God is sovereign and can do whatever He wants to do whether we agree, understand, or like it. That wasn't the point at all.
OK, then I'll expand on it. Say it's not just the Jazz chord, but the spirit of the chord, or the way musicians play, or their motives. I still say God can use those things for his will, and for redemption. The people I have mentioned in scripture who were not believers also did not do what they did in the proper spirit or had Godly motives. Jonah was not in the right spirit when God sent him to Nineveh. There were times when the Disciples didn't act in the proper spirit, such as wanting to know who will sit at Jesus's right hand side or openly denying Him, but they were still used for redemption.
There is nothing God cannot redeem. There are plenty of folks who go to church for all the wrong reasons, and still manage to become transformed or transform others, regardless of the side of the altar they are working from.
As far as influences, Jesus does say in passages such as the parable of the shrewd manager that we need to be wise in our stewardship of worldly things. I consider the stewardship of worldly things to include stuff such as science, art, music, etc.
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You said it well Rue.B3, I was not making an allusion to whether or how David was trained.The bible says he's cunning on the harp.Dude knew his stuff.But that didn't account for why his music drove away demonic spirit.With his skill were those qualities that made God call him 'a man after my heart'.Add those 'other' qualities to the amazing pool of talent that we have in church now and the move of God will be more apparent in our services.
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What I heard in respect to the music comments was not that the Jazz Chords were evil, but that there are musicians whose goal is to put on a jam session instead of being lead by the spirit and that a Jam Session isn't gonna save someone, but an anoited instrumental can deliver someone......That's just what I heard.
I spent 10 min. yesterday trying to say the very thing you stated so eloquently.
Thank you.
Me too. (And it's good to know I'm not the only one who experiences that). :D :D
Recap:
"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations. They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church. That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."
He referred to 'tunes', but he also referred to chords specifically.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this.
Fortunately I keep this (http://www.wordmp3.com/gs/etsmusic.htm) page as a favorite. (thanks again sjon) :)
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Recap:
"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations. They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church. That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."
He referred to 'tunes', but he also referred to chords specifically.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this.
Fortunately I keep this ([url]http://www.wordmp3.com/gs/etsmusic.htm[/url]) page as a favorite. (thanks again sjon) :)
But again, I don't think he was saying that the chords themselves were evil, or that they were preventing demons from being cast out. I believe he was saying that because some (many?) musicians aren't seeking God and spending time in His presence to get divine inspiration for their music, they aren't really ministering in the spirit on "THAT" level, they're just playing well.
I mean, I'm probably asking the wrong bunch here, but let's just be real... how many musicians really spend as much time in prayer (regarding music, I mean) as they do listening to other stuff to pick up new chords? I'm not saying one must spend 2 hours on their knees and 2 hours listening to other music, but what Supt. Simmons is saying (I think) is that we can accomplish a greater level of power in our gifts - all of us, not just musicians - if we spend more time in the presence of the Lord, considering HIM our primary source for knowledge, skill, anointing, talent, etc. He's saying (I think) that the Holy Ghost should be our source, not XYZ artist.
At least that's the way I took it... :-\
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"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations. They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church. That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."
But again, I don't think he was saying that the chords themselves were evil, or that they were preventing demons from being cast out. I believe he was saying that because some (many?) musicians aren't seeking God and spending time in His presence to get divine inspiration for their music, they aren't really ministering in the spirit on "THAT" level, they're just playing well.
I mean, I'm probably asking the wrong bunch here, but let's just be real... how many musicians really spend as much time in prayer (regarding music, I mean) as they do listening to other stuff to pick up new chords? I'm not saying one must spend 2 hours on their knees and 2 hours listening to other music, but what Supt. Simmons is saying (I think) is that we can accomplish a greater level of power in our gifts - all of us, not just musicians - if we spend more time in the presence of the Lord, considering HIM our primary source for knowledge, skill, anointing, talent, etc. He's saying (I think) that the Holy Ghost should be our source, not XYZ artist.
At least that's the way I took it... :-\
Hun, you're making points that he was nowhere NEAR making. :D
He concentrated on the music. NOT on spending time with God. He concentrated on Jazz & R&B. After saying they're "taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church", his NEXT comment was "That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out.
What you're saying makes very much sense, but it ain't what HE said. :D
I'm all for a difference of opinion, but you seem to be giving some revisionist history.
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Well, since you can't ask him, you don't know for sure what he meant, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm always a supporter of seeking God for creativity. To me, studying another artist for inspiration is cool, but where did they get theirs from? The most original admired musicians had to come up with their stuff from somewhere. If God can give it to them, how come he can't give you your own original style instead of just learning to copy someone else?
The only reason the greats in history are so foundational is because they came on the scene a long time ago and were able to do something that wasn't widely done. Why can't you be the next "great"?
Don't get me wrong, I get trying to learn and understand what's already been done, rather than reinvent the wheel, but sometimes I think we put God in a box, and if it hasn't been done or proven by those we respect as pioneers or geniuses in the field, we don't even give it a second look. We underestimate ourselves and our God.
God CREATED music, you mean to tell me he's gonna give more insight, revelation, and talent to people who don't use it for him, than those who are using it to worship him? I think Nathan Simmons was onto something. Maybe it's not that God won't give it to us, but that we don't seek Him for it, rather we think what's been done and what's out there now is the BEST and we need to get what they have because we couldn't possibly come up with better.
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^^I'm with her and La Rue
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Hun, you're making points that he was nowhere NEAR making. :D
He concentrated on the music. NOT on spending time with God. He concentrated on Jazz & R&B. After saying they're "taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church", his NEXT comment was "That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out.
What you're saying makes very much sense, but it ain't what HE said. :D
I'm all for a difference of opinion, but you seem to be giving some revisionist history.
I listened to the entire clip, not just the sentences you quoted. In context (and even in the part you posted), he did indeed talk about spending time with God ("instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit...")
I definitely don't agree that what I said (specifically the parts you put in blue) are different from what he was saying... but...
We can agree to disagree on this lovely Monday morning. :)
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We can agree to disagree on this lovely Monday morning. :)
This part I'll go with. :-*
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We can agree to disagree on this lovely Monday morning. :)
Speaking of 'lovely', nice avatar. :)
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He didn't say there weren't books available, he spoke only to the quality of books. He said that they didn't have the quality of books available that today's musicians have.
On that regard, I'm inclined to agree. As I've said, I don't know the first thing about music, but it's not hard to tell that just about everything has gotten better - or at least more detailed - with time. Our knowledge has evolved. We know more about diseases, about foods, about nature, about computers, about the Word of God, about everything... you name it, we (humankind) pretty much know more about it today than we did 1000-10,000 years ago. I think that's what he was getting at.
1. And you two know this how?
2. I'll agree with that, but I disagree that our knowledge and understanding has increased with everything. I'm sure there are things they knew then, that we may have lost, because of technology. Sixty years ago, you actually had to remember formulas, but now we have calculators. Forty years ago, you had to know how to write and apply grammar, but now we have computers. Twenty years ago, you had to go to the library or school to learn, but now we have the Internet.
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Well, since you can't ask him, you don't know for sure what he meant, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm always a supporter of seeking God for creativity. To me, studying another artist for inspiration is cool, but where did they get theirs from? The most original admired musicians had to come up with their stuff from somewhere. If God can give it to them, how come he can't give you your own original style instead of just learning to copy someone else?
The only reason the greats in history are so foundational is because they came on the scene a long time ago and were able to do something that wasn't widely done. Why can't you be the next "great"?
Don't get me wrong, I get trying to learn and understand what's already been done, rather than reinvent the wheel, but sometimes I think we put God in a box, and if it hasn't been done or proven by those we respect as pioneers or geniuses in the field, we don't even give it a second look. We underestimate ourselves and our God.
God CREATED music, you mean to tell me he's gonna give more insight, revelation, and talent to people who don't use it for him, than those who are using it to worship him? I think Nathan Simmons was onto something. Maybe it's not that God won't give it to us, but that we don't seek Him for it, rather we think what's been done and what's out there now is the BEST and we need to get what they have because we couldn't possibly come up with better.
OMG... to where can I send your offering??!!!!!!
You hit the nail on the head with that one, sis.
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Changing the subject slightly, I hate for the rest of the clip to get lost on that one part. He said some really good stuff that we need to heed concerning the singers and actors who take the "stage." How many churches practice putting up the one who is anointed and living a holy life, versus putting up the one who will "tear the church up," or will "sing them into a frenzy?" Fortunately, I can say that I've seen the contrary, but way too many times, I've seen exactly what Supt. Simmons is talking about -- ESPECIALLY in Atlanta. Ugh. It's just horrible.
The body of Christ as a whole, and the members of the body individually, need to go back to spending time with the Lord and seeking His presence. [tangent] Our generation just has way too many distractions with all these new hobbies, movies, games, tv shows, internet forums, and everything else that stands in the way of our time with the Lord. The other day, I wrote down the activities I do each day, and how much time I spend on each of them (eating, working out, sleeping, reading, watching TV, posting on internet forums, posting on FB, returning or composing e-mail, ministering, praying, studying the Word, etc.) and... well, I'm not even going to tell you how unbalanced my days are... lol. I spend a lot of time praying and studying, but not nearly as much as I do with all the other "activities." [/tangent]
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Well, since you can't ask him, you don't know for sure what he meant, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
God CREATED music, you mean to tell me he's gonna give more insight, revelation, and talent to people who don't use it for him, than those who are using it to worship him? I think Nathan Simmons was onto something. Maybe it's not that God won't give it to us, but that we don't seek Him for it, rather we think what's been done and what's out there now is the BEST and we need to get what they have because we couldn't possibly come up with better.
You hit the nail on the head with that one, sis.
I don't have to ask him what he meant. He SAID what he meant. Clearly.
Should you pray for inspiration? Yes.
Should you stop seeking knowledge about your craft and await inspiration? NO.
This is the equivalent of praying for a house and not saving your money, or praying for a car without getting a license.
What Mr. Simmons did was criticize those who listen to jazz music. Listen to the way he said it.
"Instead of getting chords in the spirit, they're listening to jaaaazz."
As if something is wrong with that. As if it's a sin.
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I don't have to ask him what he meant. He SAID what he meant. Clearly.
Should you pray for inspiration? Yes.
Should you stop seeking knowledge about your craft and await inspiration? NO.
This is the equivalent of praying for a house and not saving your money, or praying for a car without getting a license.
What Mr. Simmons did was criticize those who listen to jazz music. Listen to the way he said it.
"Instead of getting chords in the spirit, they're listening to jaaaazz."
As if something is wrong with that. As if it's a sin.
Two things I don't like about this post...
1. The way you formatted part of Nessa's post and then quoted me beneath it implies that my comment was related to the part you bolded. I mean, people can scroll up to see what I was really cosigning, but still... that's kinda inaccurate. :-\
2. Why are you calling him "Mr. Simmons"? :-\ ?/?
IRT the rest... we already agreed to disagree, so I'll leave that at that... lol.
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Speaking of 'lovely', nice avatar. :)
Oh snap, I missed that. Thanks! :-* (<--- holy kiss) :D :D
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Two things I don't like about this post...
1. The way you formatted part of Nessa's post and then quoted me beneath it implies that my comment was related to the part you bolded. I mean, people can scroll up to see what I was really cosigning, but still... that's kinda inaccurate. :-\
2. Why are you calling him "Mr. Simmons"? :-\ ?/?
IRT the rest... we already agreed to disagree, so I'll leave that at that... lol.
1. I thought you cosigned the whole post, seeing as you didn't bold anything for specification. Also, you ARE inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I bolded that portion to show what I was responding to. I wasn't trying to cause any confusion.
2. Something wrong with that? ?/?
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1. I thought you cosigned the whole post, seeing as you didn't bold anything for specification. Also, you ARE inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I bolded that portion to show what I was responding to. I wasn't trying to cause any confusion.
2. Something wrong with that? ?/?
oops. You DID bold something for specification. :D
That's my bad.
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oops. You DID bold something for specification. :D
That's my bad.
DUDE SMH!! Your avatar comes from one of the funniest youtube videos that I have ever seen! HANDS DOWN!! :D :D :D
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DUDE SMH!! Your avatar comes from one of the funniest youtube videos that I have ever seen! HANDS DOWN!! :D :D :D
Histerical innit? :D
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Histerical innit? :D
The quotes before the attempts are priceless!!
"I hope you like pain"
and my all time favorite the chubby dude at the end...
"You guys wanna see something"
OMG!!! LOL|
Now I have to watch it!!! :D ;D ;D
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Recap:
"Instead of musicians trying to get chords in the spirit they're listening to jazz & the r&b stations. They're taking the tunes from the world and bringing them in the church. That's why you ain't seeing no demons being cast out."
He referred to 'tunes', but he also referred to chords specifically.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this.
Fortunately I keep this ([url]http://www.wordmp3.com/gs/etsmusic.htm[/url]) page as a favorite. (thanks again sjon) :)
With which part do you disagree the 'tunes' part or the 'chords' part?
Just so I'm clear.
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With which part do you disagree the 'tunes' part or the 'chords' part?
Just so I'm clear.
I don't believe any church musician should be playing giant steps or maiden voyage during a service. Not because there is anything wrong with the music, but because during service everything should be Christ-centered. So I agree with the tunes part.
But chords? That is where I disagree. Whether I get my chord "In the spirit" or from one of a million jazz recordings, a chord is a chord.
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I don't believe any church musician should be playing giant steps or maiden voyage during a service. Not because there is anything wrong with the music, but because during service everything should be Christ-centered. So I agree with the tunes part.
But chords? That is where I disagree. Whether I get my chord "In the spirit" or from one of a million jazz recordings, a chord is a chord.
Yea, that's what I thought you were saying. ;)
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I don't have to ask him what he meant. He SAID what he meant. Clearly.
Should you pray for inspiration? Yes.
Should you stop seeking knowledge about your craft and await inspiration? NO.
This is the equivalent of praying for a house and not saving your money, or praying for a car without getting a license.
What Mr. Simmons did was criticize those who listen to jazz music. Listen to the way he said it.
"Instead of getting chords in the spirit, they're listening to jaaaazz."
As if something is wrong with that. As if it's a sin.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that heard Supt. Simmons say that. Listen to around 3:47 in the clip. That part really concerned me. The way our MOM at my church plays, you can tell there's a lot of jazz influence...not to the point of distraction lol but very classy and he's very in tune with what's going on in the service.
Since he's a member of lgm, I kinda asked for his opinion on this. Not that he'll post :D but just to see what he thinks about it (he's also a pastor and anointed musician).
So, seeing as I'm not a musician, I'll exit stage right.......... ;)
BTW, Incog, your sigs and avatars are too hilarious!! :D :-*
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I don't believe any church musician should be playing giant steps or maiden voyage during a service. Not because there is anything wrong with the music, but because during service everything should be Christ-centered. So I agree with the tunes part.
But chords? That is where I disagree. Whether I get my chord "In the spirit" or from one of a million jazz recordings, a chord is a chord.
It is possible to play Giant Steps without having heard it before. I know people that have played secular songs, without knowing they were playing secular songs.
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:-*
Tryna make me blush? :)
It is possible to play Giant Steps without having heard it before. I know people that have played secular songs, without knowing they were playing secular songs.
Fair enough.